African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 180 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15111577
skinster wrote:Oh please stop talking like a lawyer and let's get the human from inside you, wat0n. The cops are murderers and they murder regularly and the George Floyd tragedy is one of hundreds that haven't been caught on camera.

Sing it with me, wat0n, hey hey, ho ho, these killer cops have got to go


Oh, I think it's a foregone conclusion they'll go :)

The thing is, I try to see this from a more rational perspective - I'm not as involved, perhaps because I wasn't born in the US.

And it's actually useful because, well, when people try to argue stuff like "well, he was saying he couldn't breathe" or "well, he had some drugs in his system", or some other claims like that, you can tell exactly that these are all red herrings (in fact, saying he couldn't breathe actually strengthens the case that the use of force was unjustified), and that the cops involved have no excuses: They weren't under any visible threat, George Floyd was not actively resisting (at most, he was hard for them to handle since he's tall, built and panicking... But they are trained to know what to do in these cases), neck restraints were against their employer's policy in this situation, autopsies have all ruled it was a homicide despite any other conditions (i.e. there's scientific evidence George Floyd died as a result of the cops' actions), and in Chauvin's case it's also possible he even personally knew George Floyd. Of course, only a court of law can say they are guilty but I don't see how is it that they will get away with it. Specially, Derek Chauvin, who should at least get convicted for manslaughter and third degree murder, and second degree murder if it turns out he did indeed know George Floyd (as I find it hard to claim there was no intent to kill in that case).

One can argue about the overall use of force/brutality by American police or why it happens, but in this case, I find it hard to argue the cops are not responsible based on the available evidence thus far.
#15111578
I said stop talking like a lawyer, you're on a message board interacting with humans, not suits.

wat0n wrote:The thing is, I try to see this from a more rational perspective - I'm not as involved, perhaps because I wasn't born in the US.


And I'm saying stop doing that. Consider if this was your brother, father, uncle or frand. Life is nowt if you're viewing everything from such distance. George Floyd was terrified. Then murdered slowly. We should be opposed to this 100%, not trying to apologise in any way whatsoever for the killers in this story.

Screw rationality and let's kill these cops. :excited:

OK last bit was a joke.
#15111586
Wulfschilde wrote:Oh look, George Floyd bodycam footage has finally leaked and it doesn't fit the narrative at all. Who could have seen this coming?



Image

Word of this will spread, the cop will be acquitted and most of you (if you can actually read this image or watch the video) are humiliated.

Also friendly reminder that 93% of blacks are killed by other blacks, police are not anywhere close to a leading cause of killings of black men.

Apparently the body can videos were leaked to a British news organization.

Guess what? The Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison that is prosecuting the police in the George Floyd case is a Black Democrat, who left Congress in 2018. He has admitted withholding this police body cam footage to help his ability to prosecute the case. Both Court TV and the lawyers had been trying to get those videos released while Ellison resisted. Evidence is sometimes withheld to protect the defendant and allow justice to be done in the trial. However, this case is backward, in which the AG isn't looking for justice in court, but instead a successful prosecution.

This video shows non-compliance and resisting arrest by Floyd from being put in a police cruiser after committing the crime of passing a counterfeit $20 bill. We can hear the police asking if Floyd is on something. We already know that the autopsy detected Fentanyl in his system. The video gives evidence that George Floyd was drugged out of his mind, apparently on Fentanyl, and was not the saint the media makes him out to be. We also hear Geoge Floyd saying he can't breathe before he was taken down to the ground and long before a knee was put on his neck by officer Chauvin. There are now legitimate questions as to how Floyd really died. Was he so overdosed on drugs that he simply had a heart attack during his panic attack during his arrest?
#15111590
Cop approaches him with gun drawn after hearing he payed for cigarettes with a fake $20 bill.

If you think that video shows "resisted arrest", you're an idiot. He has the right to demand the cops tell him why he is under arrest before putting him in the cop car.

They obviously probably did that during the missing 3 minutes, but you don't see that during this original video showing their initial approach. No wonder he had a panic attack, you would too if a cop approached with his gun drawn over a fucken $20 non-violent petty theft. Where instead of pull a gun and demand the cigarettes, he stole the pack in a non-violent manner.

He stole 1 solitary pack of cigarettes. That should not equal "points gun and screams get out of the car, now!" as first interaction.

Approaching his car silently(sans sirens) with gun drawn, was an idiotic negligent move.

We also hear Geoge Floyd saying he can't breathe before he was taken down to the ground and long before a knee was put on his neck by officer Chauvin


= Neglect... Chauvin is guilty of Manslaughter at the least. He doesn't listen when Mr Floyd says he has anxiety, panic attacks and was recovering from Covid-19. They explicitly state they were not going to listen to his complaints. Negligent pigs.
#15111592
colliric wrote:Cop approaches him with gun drawn after hearing he payed for cigarettes with a fake $20 bill.

If you think that video shows "resisted arrest", you're an idiot. He has the right to demand the cops tell him why he is under arrest before putting him in the cop car.

If you think that, then you must be one of those left-wing crazy radicals.

colliric wrote:They obviously probably did that during the missing 3 minutes, but you don't see that during this original video showing their initial approach. No wonder he had a panic attack, you would too if a cop approached with his gun drawn over a fucken $20 non-violent petty theft. Where instead of pull a gun and demand the cigarettes, he stole the pack in a non-violent manner.

He stole 1 solitary pack of cigarettes. That should not equal "points gun and screams get out of the car, now!" as first interaction.

Approaching his car silently(sans sirens) with gun drawn, was an idiotic negligent move.

The police had to be prepared in case George Floyd had a firearm. It would have been negligent not to have done what the police did.

colliric wrote:= Neglect... Chauvin is guilty of Manslaughter at the least.

I don't see it. But manslaughter is the most he should be charged with.

colliric wrote:He doesn't listen when Mr Floyd says he has anxiety, panic attacks and was recovering from Covid-19.

He is a police officer, not a doctor. George Floyd also complained about not being able to breathe long before the officer got him under control by placing his knee on the neck and the other two officers holding his back and legs. All of that would not have been necessary if Floyd had just complied with the police orders like most rational people would have done.

colliric wrote:They explicitly state they were not going to listen to his complaints. Negligent pigs.

They simply told him he was not going to win by making up all those complaints. The job of the police is not to listen to complaints from an accused criminal, but it is to arrest him. Then maybe a judge will listen to his complaints.
#15111593
Saeko wrote:So what part of this video do you think justifies Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck for 8:46 seconds?

Probably the half a dozen drugs in his system (some of which that he got from "hooping") combined with his own requests to be put down on the ground while he was tripping out of his mind.

Seriously, if he had died in a different way you guys would be like "he asked to be put on the ground!"



And no, a giant guy like him was not asphyxiated by having a smaller man put one knee on the back of his neck. That's not how the body works, there's muscle and bone between the windpipe and the back of the neck. He died because he was tripping balls from tons of different drugs combined with his heart condition.

colliric wrote:= Neglect... Chauvin is guilty of Manslaughter at the least. He doesn't listen when Mr Floyd says he has anxiety, panic attacks and was recovering from Covid-19. They explicitly state they were not going to listen to his complaints. Negligent pigs.

Official policy is to put such people down on the ground because it's supposed to reduce the chances of a heart attack. It's called "excited delirium." But thanks for telling us what the cop is guilty of after you admit this guy committed a crime while tripping on several drugs at once.

Edit:
Image
BLM are just burning, looting and murdering because they want a payout in the form of reparations. The truth is that most of them hate people like Floyd who trip balls and hurt random members of their communities. Fentanyl Floyd's own baby momma is on tape saying he's crazy.
#15111594
Wulfschilde wrote:Official policy is to put such people down on the ground because it's supposed to reduce the chances of a heart attack. It's called "excited delirium." But thanks for telling us what the cop is guilty of after you admit this guy committed a crime while tripping on several drugs at once.


The crime he committed was a misdemeanor petty theft at best. And if he wasn't aware it was a fake bill he was using it wasn't even a crime at all(it's not a crime to unwittingly use fake money).

The cop needed to ascertain if a crime was even committed and should have approached in a non-threatning manner asking questions. Not immediately assume a person that has obtained cigarettes in an obviously non-violent manner is a violent individual just because he's a black man with a minor criminal record of having once seriously threatened his spouse, and pull his gun out point at the man and say "get out of the car right now".
#15111596
colliric wrote:The crime he committed was a misdemeanor petty theft at best. And if he wasn't aware it was a fake bill he was using it wasn't even a crime at all(it's not a crime to unwittingly use fake money).

The cop needed to ascertain if a crime was even committed and should have approached in a non-threatning manner asking questions. Not immediately assume a person that has obtained cigarettes in an obviously non-violent manner is a violent individual just because he's a black man with a minor criminal record of having once seriously threatened his spouse, and pull his gun out point at the man and say "get out of the car right now".

You don't know anything about law or police procedure. Giant guy was clearly tripping balls after having the cops called on him, asks to be laid down, he gets laid down (after a struggle) and they pin him there to make sure he doesn't jump up and start returning to monke. Then he has a heart attack and all the liberals tear their clothes, beat their chests and shoot at random cars instead of admitting that drugs are dangerous.
#15111600
Wulfschilde wrote:Giant guy was clearly tripping balls after having the cops called on him.


He was clearly acting calm and nonchalant, enjoying a smoke and staying in his car near the place... Kinda consistent with a person that thinks they purchased that cigarette pack legally and has gone back to their car to enjoy one before leaving, or a non-violent individual that doesn't think his crime is serious enough for the cops to be called and if they do he'll stay and try calmly talk his way out of it.

TILL SOME DICKHEAD COP COMES UP TO HIM KNOCKS ON HIS WINDOWS, IMMEDIATELY POINTS A LOADED GUN IN HIS FACE AND STARTS SCREAMING.
#15111601
Wulfschilde wrote:And no, a giant guy like him was not asphyxiated by having a smaller man put one knee on the back of his neck. That's not how the body works, there's muscle and bone between the windpipe and the back of the neck. He died because he was tripping balls from tons of different drugs combined with his heart condition.

Yes, the autopsy did not indicate any damage to the neck of George Floyd that I saw. The only way I can see that the cops will be found guilty is if the prosecution can hype up the emotions of the jury on racism and misrepresenting the cause of death.

George Floyd knew he had done something wrong because he keeps apologizing to the police from what we hear from the body cams.
#15111604
Hindsite wrote:George Floyd knew he had done something wrong because he keeps apologizing to the police from what we hear from the body cams.


Which is totally contradicted by the fact he is continuously asking why he's being arrested throughout the entire video.

He probably thinks he's be being arrested for his recreational drug use and someone might have seen him using. Instead he's having a gun pulled on him and being arrested for the fucken cigarette packet, and he acted consistent with a person that believes they've purchased that packet legally, or is a non-violent individual that thinks he could talk his way out of it or that the cops won't bother to show up for a $20 non-violent crime.

We'll never know now because the idiot pigs killed him.
#15111608
colliric wrote:Which is totally contradicted by the fact he is continuously asking why he's being arrested throughout the entire video.

He probably thinks he's be being arrested for his recreational drug use and someone might have seen him using. Instead he's having a gun pulled on him and being arrested for the fucken cigarette packet, and he acted consistent with a person that believes they've purchased that packet legally, or is a non-violent individual that thinks he could talk his way out of it or that the cops won't bother to show up for a $20 non-violent crime.

We'll never know now because the idiot pigs killed him.

That hasn't been proven in a court of law and I don't believe it will be.
#15111613
skinster wrote:Oh please stop talking like a lawyer and let's get the human from inside you, wat0n.

:lol: The bleedin heart Communist routine might work on Liberals, but it won't work on me. Even thee Trotskyists who try to pretend they are more cuddly than the Stalinists and Maoists fully support Lenin and Trotsky's red terror. That means arrest without charge, beatings, torture, family hostage taking, arbitrary executions. The modern prison industrial complex was invented by the Soviet Union. When the Nazis took power in 1933, Goering, Roehm and Himmler were only copying the Soviet justice system. You do know that right?

But we don't need to even go back in history. With the American justice system there is clearly still room for improvement, but I'm sure its way better than the justice system of Pakistan, Cuba or Hezbollah. No we'll take no lectures on due process from the supporters of Hamas.
#15111621
colliric wrote:He was clearly acting calm and nonchalant, enjoying a smoke and staying in his car near the place... Kinda consistent with a person that thinks they purchased that cigarette pack legally and has gone back to their car to enjoy one before leaving, or a non-violent individual that doesn't think his crime is serious enough for the cops to be called and if they do he'll stay and try calmly talk his way out of it.

TILL SOME DICKHEAD COP COMES UP TO HIM KNOCKS ON HIS WINDOWS, IMMEDIATELY POINTS A LOADED GUN IN HIS FACE AND STARTS SCREAMING.

Yes, just chilling in his car after having the cops called on him, then freaks out and has a heart attack JUST LIKE ANY NORMAL PERSON WOULD. Lol.
#15111639
Wulfschilde wrote:Yes, just chilling in his car after having the cops called on him, then freaks out and has a heart attack JUST LIKE ANY NORMAL PERSON WOULD. Lol.


Obviously he didn't have any idea cops were called on him or why they were. He seems genuinely terrified as soon as the cops approach him, like any of us would be if we saw a gun directed at our heads, except he has the added terror of being a Black man in Amerikkka, knowing what cops with guns do to Black men.

The heartlessness in this thread is so very savage, I pity the lack of love you guys have in your life, because it shows.
#15111669
@wat0n

1. Why? And include in your explanation a way to keep the cop from killing an innocent person.

2. That does not seem to be an argument. Unless you have a new argument, I am dropping this. Police have no obligation to protect anyone.

3. So police can kill someone, admit to it, record it, and make the tape public, and stay out of jail as long as “flagrancy” is not proven. But anyone else who kills someone, admits to it, records it, and makes the tape public, will stay in jail even if “flagrancy” is not proven. This is the double standard to which I was referring, and this is part if the culture of impunity, and it violates the basic tenets of liberal democracy.

And you misunderstood about my second point.
#15111674
Pants-of-dog wrote:@wat0n

1. Why? And include in your explanation a way to keep the cop from killing an innocent person.


Why what? Why let healthcare workers decide if they need police backup to help to subdue a person they are not trained to subdue?

Pants-of-dog wrote:2. That does not seem to be an argument. Unless you have a new argument, I am dropping this. Police have no obligation to protect anyone.


You can believe whatever you want, the law however doesn't quite agree with you.

Pants-of-dog wrote:3. So police can kill someone, admit to it, record it, and make the tape public, and stay out of jail as long as “flagrancy” is not proven. But anyone else who kills someone, admits to it, records it, and makes the tape public, will stay in jail even if “flagrancy” is not proven. This is the double standard to which I was referring, and this is part if the culture of impunity, and it violates the basic tenets of liberal democracy.

And you misunderstood about my second point.


When anyone else kills someone in self defense, no, the mere tape will not get the person in jail :roll:
#15111686
@wat0n

1. I thought you were obligating them to have police backup even if the mental health workers did not want it.

Anyway, you never answered why cops should be there, nor did you explain how you would prevent said cops from killing innocents.

2. California explicitly says that cops do not need to protect the public:


    CHAPTER 3. Police and Correctional Activities [844 - 846] ( Chapter 3 added by Stats. 1963, Ch. 1681. )

    845.
    Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise to provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... ionNum=845

The most relevant case, though, is Warren v. District of Columbia.

3. What if there is no evidence (other than my testimony) that the person attacked me, just as there is no evidence (other than the cops testimony) that Elijah McClain attacked anyone.

Do you agree or disagree that the cops created the situation that led to Breonna Taylor’s death?
#15111688
Pants-of-dog wrote:@wat0n

1. I thought you were obligating them to have police backup even if the mental health workers did not want it.

Anyway, you never answered why cops should be there, nor did you explain how you would prevent said cops from killing innocents.


I already said so: Cops should be nearby and stand ready to provide backup if requested (by the healthcare workers of course). They would need to be there because mental health workers are not trained to subdue people holding firearms, knives or shovels, and they may end up having to deal with those situations. This would also help prevent cops from unnecessarily killing people.

Pants-of-dog wrote:2. California explicitly says that cops do not need to protect the public:


    CHAPTER 3. Police and Correctional Activities [844 - 846] ( Chapter 3 added by Stats. 1963, Ch. 1681. )

    845.
    Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise to provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... ionNum=845


That doesn't have anything to do with the obligations by cops to perform their duties. The only thing it says is that cities would not be liable for not providing enough funding or abolishing the police.

Pants-of-dog wrote:The most relevant case, though, is Warren v. District of Columbia.


And we went through it, and even discussed your misinterpretation of the ruling - citing straight from it. The very ruling cites the obligation by cops to prevent flagrant commission of crime.

Pants-of-dog wrote:3. What if there is no evidence (other than my testimony) that the person attacked me, just as there is no evidence (other than the cops testimony) that Elijah McClain attacked anyone.

Do you agree or disagree that the cops created the situation that led to Breonna Taylor’s death?


That would require the prosecutor to gather evidence that the self defense claim is baseless before a grand jury before being able to indict (and thus jail). Sounds like that's exactly what the AGs are doing in both cases.
#15111689
@wat0n

1. So cops would not need to be there. I fail to see how this is any different from using 8111, but whatever, there are mire important points: would the cops be forbidden to engage with the person with mental health issues unless the mental health workers allowed it?

2. So we agree that California PDs are not liable of they do not provide sufficient police protection service. Please quote the text or provide a link to the post where you quote the text from the case. Thank you.

3. So anyone can kill anyone where no one is looking and claim self defense and just walk away free?

Do you agree or disagree that the cops created the situation that led to Breonna Taylor’s death?
  • 1
  • 178
  • 179
  • 180
  • 181
  • 182
  • 197
Election 2020

And here’s a fact check that actually gets it righ[…]

I wouldn't take the media's word for it How abou[…]

First 2020 Debate Thread

Yeah, but I'm guessing Thomas Friedman didn't spe[…]

What is Fascism

Thanks Antifa are usually closer to anarchists. […]