Blast in Beirut, Lebanon - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15112089
skinster wrote:Richard Silverstein who has been writing on Israel for decades with an insider perspective, claims Israel is responsible. I guess he's a self-loathing Jew or something since accusing Israel, a state which has a long history of attacking Lebanon, is so outlandish to some nerds ITT.


I have no problem of Jews criticising their own government or suggesting they have a hand in the blast, as long as they are serious enough to fact-check and investigate.
#15112093
anasawad wrote:scud missiles

A Scud missile would explode spontaneously if the fuel tanks were pierced.

Hypergolic mixtures...

It employs a storable propellant combination of red fuming nitric acid (containing 18-22% N204) and kerosene. In addition a starting fuel, "Tonka", is used (50% ksilidin and 50% tri-ethylamine).

Triethylamine - N(CH2CH3)3 - was found during the early 1940s to be hypergolic in combination with nitric acid.
#15112102
It is possible that Israel could have been behind this. In such a scenario, say targeting a weapons depot, they would either not have known about the massive storage of ammonium nitrate (unlikely) or belive they could shift the blame towards Hezbollah.

Sitting on the side-lines it just seems to be far to great of a risk if they are caught being connected to this explosion. This has all the hallmarks of an accidental explosion, which on the other hand, is precisely what it would look like if they wanted to do this. There are no indications except for doctored footage that this was an Israeli missile strike.
#15112103
MadMonk wrote:... this was an Israeli missile strike.


I thought the Mossad or the Israeli Army would at least be smart enough to use means more accurate and less violent than using a missile.

Keep adverse effect minimised, my friend.
#15112105
Where are evidence of any Israeli involvment? :eh:
#15112109
@JohnRawls

If you were a policemen investigating a murder, and you have a person of interest who threatened to chop the the victim into little pieces a week earlier, and the victim was found chopped into little pieces, who would you be looking at more closely?


:)
#15112111
ingliz wrote:@JohnRawls

If you were a policemen investigating a murder, and you have a person of interest who threatened to chop the the victim into little pieces a week earlier, and the victim was found chopped into little pieces, who would you be looking at more closely?


:)


I would investigate all options but i wouldn't claim it was Israel before I had any proof. Because otherwise I would look like a fool or was just searching for a scapegoat.
#15112112
@JohnRawls

And if that person of interest had a history of domestic abuse and extreme violence stretching back years, and the modus operandi employed was similar (if not so flamboyant in those cases), be honest, who would you be looking at?


:)
Last edited by ingliz on 08 Aug 2020 15:09, edited 1 time in total.
#15112113
ingliz wrote:@JohnRawls

And that person of interest had a history of domestic abuse and extreme violence stretching back years, and the modus operandi employed was similar (if not so flamboyant in those cases), be honest, who would you be looking at?


:)


Are we talking about racism here?

After all, this matches the racists' usual modus operandi: Scapegoating those they harbor racial hatred for using conspiracy theories, refusing to provide evidence to back them up, refusing to address criticism of the theories and so on.
#15112115
wat0n wrote:Are we talking about racism here?

No.

We are talking about a hypothetical murder investigation where a suspect is known to have threatened to chop the DB into little pieces and he turns up in little pieces only a few days after the threat was made. That suspect, coincidentally, happens to have a history of domestic abuse and extreme violence stretching back years. To cap it all when you look at his rap sheet you see that the modus operandi he employed then is the same (if not so flamboyantly done) as what you see now.


:)
Last edited by ingliz on 08 Aug 2020 22:39, edited 3 times in total.
#15112116
ingliz wrote:And that person of interest had a history of domestic abuse and extreme violence stretching back years, and the modus operandi employed was similar (if not so flamboyant in those cases), be honest, who would you be looking at?


I do not think Rawls is suggesting the Israelites are proven innocent. He merely wants people who are interested in (or even responsible on) the associated investigation do their job.

I think the mindset behind the above post is surprisingly close to the Nazis, as it aims to target one group of people based on impressions and perceptions and tries to put it forward in place of seeking concrete evidence.

And the above post comes with a signature that emphasise another company being complicit in the Holocaust (persecution and extermination of various ethnic groups, with Jews being the most prominent one).

Another case of hypocrisy if one asks me.
#15112120
Patrickov wrote:Another case of hypocrisy if one asks me.

It was @JohnRawls who stated that it was anti-semitism to even suggest that Israel should be investigated. It was only after some prodding he changed his mind.

Also, if you look at my posts, you will see I have not accused anyone of setting off 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate deliberately.

N.B. "No doubt, the ammonium nitrate detonation was an accident as nobody would be mad enough to set off 2,750 tons of the stuff on purpose to make a point they've made many times before."


:)
.
#15112123
Rich wrote:
When the Israelites genocided the Caananites, the western Christian powers didn't exist and wouldn't exist for over a thousand years. This was the original hatred. The Bible doesn't even attempt to present the Caananites as the original aggressor. The Israelites made no attempt to negotiate with the Caananites, no attempt to share the land. They didn't even provide reservations for the Caananites, like the European Christians did when they settled in North America. This was the original hatred, the hatred of the Israelites (and their successors the Jews) for the Gentiles in general and the Caananites in particular.

Nor was this just some historical memory. Josiah attempted to repeat the genocidal expansionism four centuries later. Rather than apologising and feeling shame for the evil that their religious forbears committed, religious Jews celebrate Joshua and Josiah as heroes. Judaism is a religion of imperialism. It is a religion of expansionism. It is a religion of racism. It is a religion of genocide. You can't blow me off with your Cultural Marxist "imperialist" gas lighting. I as I said had the Jewish scriptures rammed down my throat as a child in the form of the Old Testament. I know what's in them.

Jewish supremacists and their Cultural Marxists running dogs (in this regard), try and make out the Jews to be some special victims of Roman Imperialism. The Romans were imperialists no one denies that. No I don't forgive or forget what the Romans did to my Germanic and Celtic ancestors. But the irony is that it was Canaanite, Phoenician Carthage that was wiped off the map not Judea.



You're being *defensive* about 'Cultural Marxist imperialist gas lighting', but then you *acknowledge* imperialism, as in Roman imperialism. These are *contradictory* positions.

Also, regarding ancient Judea:



Roman conquest

See also: Judea (Roman province)

Judea lost its independence to the Romans in the 1st century BCE, by becoming first a tributary kingdom, then a province, of the Roman Empire. The Romans had allied themselves to the Maccabees and interfered again in 63 BCE, at the end of the Third Mithridatic War, when the proconsul Pompeius Magnus ("Pompey the Great") stayed behind to make the area secure for Rome, including his siege of Jerusalem in 63 BCE. Queen Alexandra Salome had recently died, and a civil war broke out between her sons, Hyrcanus II and Aristobulus II. Pompeius restored Hyrcanus but political rule passed to the Herodian family who ruled as client kings. In 6 CE, Judea came under direct Roman rule as the southern part of the province of Iudaea, although Jews living in the province still maintained some form of independence and could judge offenders by their own laws, including capital offences, until c. 28 CE.[22] The Province of Judea, during the late Hellenistic period and early Roman period was also divided into five conclaves: Jerusalem (ירושלם), Gadara (גדרה), Amathus (עמתו), Jericho (יריחו), and Sepphoris (צפורין),[23] and during the Roman period had eleven administrative districts (toparchies): Jerusalem, Gophna, Akrabatta, Thamna, Lydda, Ammaus, Pella, Idumaea, Engaddi, Herodeion, and Jericho.[24] Eventually, the Jewish population rose against Roman rule in 66 CE in a revolt that was unsuccessful. Jerusalem was besieged in 70 CE and much of the population was killed or enslaved.[25]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea#Roman_conquest



---


Rich wrote:
It was Canaanite, Phoenician Carthage that was burned to the ground and its fields salted, not Jerusalem.



Yes, Judea / Jerusalem was *also* victimized by Roman imperialism, as noted in the history above.


Rich wrote:
History can not be redone, but those of us that are genuinely anti imperialist as opposed to the fake anti imperialism of the Marxists, support Phoenician nationalism. Support the right of the Phoenician people to their own historic homeland. This latest blast, what ever its proximate cause, surely proves that Phoenicians deserve a State of their own.



What you're talking about happened over 2000 years ago and is not relevant today. There are modern Arab nations in the region that you're talking about.

Also there's no good reason for you to disparage Marxist anti-imperialism in the present day.


Rich wrote:
I'm an anti fascist. I support Indian independence. I support the Indian Hindu (and Sikh and Buddhist) struggle against Muslim and Han expansionist imperialism. I oppose both the Black fascism of Hitler and Mussolini and the Red fascism of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao and Ho Chi Ming.



No, you're not -- your politics more resemble that of Christian crusaders around 1100 CE.

You prefer Hindu supremacism (BJP) over Muslim human rights, including the Rohingya Muslims.

I don't see the Han / China as being *expansionist*, but feel free to provide any sources you may have. It sounds like anti-*China* sentiment on your part.

There's no such thing as 'Black fascism', because people of color have historically been *oppressed* and disempowered as a result of Western imperialism. Black people have no black-identity state power with which to subjugate others.

Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, and Ho Chi Minh were *not* fascists, but they *were* authoritarian (Stalinists), which is approrpriate for their politics of anti-imperialism against the Western imperialists.


Ideologies & Operations -- Fundamentals

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#15112137
BEIRUT (AP) — Residents of Beirut vented their fury at Lebanon’s leaders Thursday during a visit by French President Emmanuel Macron, blaming them for the deadly explosion that ravaged the capital. Shouting “Revolution!” they crowded around the visiting leader who promised to press the politicians for reform.

A military judge leading the investigation into Tuesday’s blast said 16 employees of Beirut’s port, where the explosion took place, had been detained. He said 18 had been questioned, including port and customs officials, according to the state news agency.

But while investigators focus on port officials, many Lebanese put the blame squarely on the political elite and the corruption and mismanagement that even before the disaster had pushed the country to the brink of economic collapse.

The Cabinet was previously warned by a security agency that a stockpile of explosive chemicals stored at the port was dangerous, Lebanon’s customs chief told the Associated Press — a report that could raise questions of high-level neglect.

That stockpile of 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate set off the massive blast, apparently when touched off by a fire at the port. The chemical had been left sitting in a warehouse ever since it was confiscated from an impounded cargo ship in 2013.

The explosion, powerful enough to be felt in Cyprus across the Eastern Mediterranean, killed more than 130 people, wounded thousands and blasted buildings for miles around. Two days later, some 300,000 people — more than 12% of Beirut’s population — can’t return to their homes, officials estimate. Damaged hospitals are still struggling to deal with the wounded. Dozens are still missing. Officials have estimated losses at $10 billion to $15 billion.

Furthermore, the disaster struck at a time when people’s savings have melted away, and unemployment and poverty have mounted in the financial crisis. Few have capacity to rebuild homes and businesses, and the government is scraping for dollars.

After talks with Lebanese leaders, France’s Macron announced his country will organize a conference in the next few days with European, American, Middle Eastern and other donors to raise money for food, medicine, housing and other urgent aid.

But he warned Lebanon’s political elite that he wouldn’t give “blank checks to a system that no longer has the trust of its people.” He called on them to create a “new political order.”

He promised a “clear and transparent governance” so that the aid goes directly to the population and aid groups.

In startling scenes, Macron — whose country once was Lebanon’s colonial ruler — presented himself as a champion for the Lebanese to push change on their leadership.

After visiting the devastated port, Macron walked through one of the worst-hit neighborhoods, Gemmayzeh, down a street lined with wrecked buildings.

On the narrow street, a crowd gathered around him and shouted their anger, chanting, “Revolution!” and “The people want to bring down the regime!” — slogans used at mass protests last year.

Macron told them he would propose “a new political pact” when he met the government later. Then, he added, “I will be back on the first of September and if they can’t do it, I will keep my responsibility toward you.” He also promised that French aid would be given out with transparency and “will not go into the hands of corruption.”

One woman shouted at Macron, “You are sitting with warlords. They have been manipulating us for the past year.” He replied, “I’m not here to help them. I’m here to help you.” They then hugged.
https://apnews.com/9d10149b5d5f3e0e837edd6d5a8e0d8f
#15112143
Deutschmania wrote:



After visiting the devastated port, Macron walked through one of the worst-hit neighborhoods, Gemmayzeh, down a street lined with wrecked buildings.

On the narrow street, a crowd gathered around him and shouted their anger, chanting, “Revolution!” and “The people want to bring down the regime!” — slogans used at mass protests last year.

Macron told them he would propose “a new political pact” when he met the government later. Then, he added, “I will be back on the first of September and if they can’t do it, I will keep my responsibility toward you.” He also promised that French aid would be given out with transparency and “will not go into the hands of corruption.”

One woman shouted at Macron, “You are sitting with warlords. They have been manipulating us for the past year.” He replied, “I’m not here to help them. I’m here to help you.” They then hugged.



Global medievalism.
#15112154
ingliz wrote:It was @JohnRawls who stated that it was anti-semitism to even suggest that Israel should be investigated. It was only after some prodding he changed his mind.

Also, if you look at my posts, you will see I have not accused anyone of setting off 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate deliberately.

N.B. "No doubt, the ammonium nitrate detonation was an accident as nobody would be mad enough to set off 2,750 tons of the stuff on purpose to make a point they've made many times before."


:)
.


Here is the problem though. You didn't suggest to investigate Israel, you basically pinned the blame on Israel. There is a difference between the two and hence thats why you are anti-semitic.
#15112157
On the topic of the Marxist view of Jews , or any nationality really , it is not to be taken literally , but rather is a generaizedl critique . For a comparative example , here is what some German Marxists expressed , in part as an argument in favor of war against Britain , during the time of World War 1 .
Sombart's 1911 book, Die Juden und das Wirtschaftsleben (The Jews and Modern Capitalism), is an addition to Max Weber's historic study of the connection between Protestantism (especially Calvinism) and Capitalism, with Sombart documenting Jewish involvement in historic capitalist development. He argued that Jewish traders and manufacturers, excluded from the guilds, developed a distinctive antipathy to the fundamentals of medieval commerce, which they saw as primitive and unprogressive: the desire for 'just' (and fixed) wages and prices; for an equitable system in which shares of the market were agreed and unchanging; profits and livelihoods modest but guaranteed; and limits placed on production. Excluded from the system, Sombart argued, the Jews broke it up and replaced it with modern capitalism, in which competition was unlimited and the only law was pleasing the customer .The antithesis of the German spirit is the Jewish spirit, which is not a matter of being born Jewish or believing in Judaism but is a capitalistic spirit.[19] The English people possess the Jewish spirit and the "chief task" of the German people and National Socialism is to destroy the Jewish spirit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Sombart
The First World War was interpreted by Lensch as a world socialist revolution. It is the continuation of the theory of war socialism. While most in the SPD saw the war as a defensive war against Tsarist Russia, Lensch saw the liberal England as the cause of the war. This because England was the earliest industrialized country in Europe, and that gained England its supremacy. The war against Germany was just an attempt to prevent the opposing Germany's growth and to ensure its own monopoly.[3]

Lensch thus converts the Marxist theory of the class struggle to a national level. England was the state of the bourgeois-capitalist class while Germany now had taken the place of the proletariat.

England with its Parliamentary Monarchy was for Lensch the cause of capitalism. The Calvinist religion and the quest for individual wealth in England led to the creation of the bourgeoisie.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lensch This does not mean that they necessarily thought that all Anglos should be wiped out in a final solution , however . Also , compare to these Bible verses . Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the [a]false circumcision; 3 for we are the true [b]circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh. Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their [a]appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[a]”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[b] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
9 I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Keep in mind that , just as with the writers of these New Testament passages , Karl Marx was of Jewish lineage himself , and as such was not an anti-Semite . https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/karl-marx-and-the-radical-critique-of-anti-semitism-robert-fine-engage-journal-issue-2-may-2006/ https://www.manchesteropenhive.com/view/9781526104960/9781526104960.00007.xml
#15112160
ckaihatsu wrote:Global medievalism.

What do you expect with the mafia that's currently in power in so many countries - linked by their great faith in Abrahamic mafia organizations, and their hatred of "others."

ingliz wrote:@JohnRawls

And if that person of interest had a history of domestic abuse and extreme violence stretching back years, and the modus operandi employed was similar (if not so flamboyant in those cases), be honest, who would you be looking at?

Yes, but what if "that person" has always made sure that JohnRawls had a decent job, a circle of friends, and an indentity that made him feel all warm and superior?

How is JohnRawls supposed to post anything other than ass-kissing?
#15112166
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, but what if "that person" has always made sure that JohnRawls had a decent job, a circle of friends, and an indentity that made him feel all warm and superior? How is JohnRawls supposed to post anything other than ass-kissing?


I find such slandering sickening. If this can happen to Mr. Rawls why can't I assume an opposite group exists doing the same on you or those who share stance with you?
#15112172
Patrickov wrote:I find such slandering sickening. If this can happen to Mr. Rawls why can't I assume an opposite group exists doing the same on you or those who share stance with you?

What if no other groups have as much money to throw around, or as strong a strategic hatred for outsiders?

(this is all hypothetical. there is no slander)
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