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By Godstud
#15112674
Blackjack21 wrote:So why always talk about white countries? You have two socialist countries much closer to you: North Korea and Myanmar. Why not mention them? Why not mention Zimbabwe? By the way, they aren't socialist policies. They are welfare state policies. Socialism is when the means of production render the benefits of the enterprise to the worker.
I am talking about successful Democratic Socialist countries. I am not posting just to make you feel better about your racist stupidity. Stop pretending you know fuck-all about Socialism. You don't.

Blackjack21 wrote:You're talking about welfare benefits, not the means of production benefiting the workers.
You don't know shit about Socialism, and that's blatantly evident. Socialist policies are those that benefit everyone.

Blackjack21 wrote:No. It comes down to countries that purport to be socialist right in your neighborhood, and you don't mention them. You mention capitalist states with lavish welfare systems.
I am mentioning Democratic Socialist systems that work in cooperation with Capitalism. Only pseudo-intellectuals think only in extremes.

Blackjack21 wrote:Where have I pretended I'm not racist? I would only challenge your utterly absurd stereotyping and inability to argue what I say rather than your constant strawman arguments.
:lol: The subject is not RACE. You're the one engaging in Strawman arguments. Typical distraction when you can't form a cogent argument, and just want to troll like an infant.
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15112680
jimjam wrote:You got your payoff from Obese Donald and know this well :lol:
No doubt your tax bonanza from Don The Con has trickled down by now as you "do for your country" :lol:

I pay more in taxes. The Republican bill limited SALT deductions. I'll probably move out of California in the next year or so. I was born here, raised here, and lived most of my life here. However, I'm pretty much done with the taxes and the leftist government.

XogGyux wrote:Social security is insurance.

It's a pay-as-you-go wealth transfer. It is not insurance or a retirement account. There is no money backing it up. It can be cancelled at any time. A lot of people think it's like a policy or a contract. Legally, it is not at all.

Godstud wrote:I am talking about successful Democratic Socialist countries.

So you are saying that Myanmar, North Korea and Zimbabwe aren't successful? What about Cuba? All the Nordic countries are capitalist. The means of production is privately held and for profit.

Godstud wrote:I am not posting just to make you feel better about your racist stupidity.

Hey, I'm not the one posting the whitest countries on Earth as a model for everyone else. That's you. Hasn't it occurred to you that maybe they just have white privilege?

In the case of Norway, they have a sovereign wealth fund with receipts from North Sea oil.

Economy of Norway
The oil and gas industries play a dominant role in the Norwegian economy, providing a source of finance for the Norwegian welfare state through direct ownership of oil fields, dividends from its shares in Equinor, and licensure fees and taxes. The oil and gas industry is Norway's largest in terms of government revenue and value-added. The organization of this sector is designed to ensure the exploration, development and extraction of petroleum resources result in public value creation for the entire society through a mixture of taxation, licensing and direct state ownership through a system called the State’s Direct Financial Interest (SDFI). The SDFI was established in 1985 and represents state-owned holdings in a number of oil and gas fields, pipelines and onshore facilities as well as 67% of the shares in Equinor. Government revenues from the petroleum industry are transferred to the Government Pension Fund of Norway Global in a structure that forbids the government from accessing the fund for public spending; only income generated by the funds' capital can be used for government spending.


The North Sea oil is crucial to Danish welfare
How Norway's huge oil reserves benefit all its citizens

Godstud wrote:You don't know shit about Socialism, and that's blatantly evident. Socialist policies are those that benefit everyone.

That sounds like egalitarianism, not socialism. Socialism is the dictatorship of the proletariat, the means of production owned by the workers.

Godstud wrote:I am mentioning Democratic Socialist systems that work in cooperation with Capitalism.

Welfare states. That's what I said.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15112681
XogGyux wrote:That sounds like a recipe for those hypothetical companies to make shiton of money while poorly managing "investments", give nice golden parachute to their executives just before declaring that they are in the brink of bankruptcy so that the government bails them out.
I don't think that there are many Americans that will trust that the company managing their "Social security fund" will be around 30 or 40 years in the future and will continue to be strong and solvent.
Not to mention... are you going to make it mandatory? If you don't do it mandatory you will have plenty of people "thinking" I am better off buying some bitcoin than letting some idiot in a suit manage my money... and we all know how well that will end. :lol:
There are plenty of shit that the private sector can do currently and in fact ar doing... why do you want even more interference.
None of this is to make you rich in retirement. The 1-2k/month most people get in retirement is already peanuts, especially if you don't alright own property outright (no mortgage) or don't have additional retirement savings in 401ks, IRAs, Roth accounts or Taxable accounts.
Social security is insurance. Insurance costs you money, it does not make you money. You don't invest insurance money.


As I said you often come up with great posts and sometimes you regurgitate the standard Dem worn out dogma.

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and will run out of money soon. It will work OK until it runs its natural course. At some point it the funds will have to go into the market under the workers direction.

The Swedes who are more left wing than America partially privatized their social security. Did you hear that? These guys are not exactly right wingers. Granted they only invest a small portion in the market. I suspect more is coming.

I have an idea why the Dems dislike this. It gives too much control to the working bees over their own money. The Dem concept is that government is everything.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15112686
Julian658 wrote:As I said you often come up with great posts and sometimes you regurgitate the standard Dem worn out dogma.

Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and will run out of money soon. It will work OK until it runs its natural course. At some point it the funds will have to go into the market under the workers direction.

The Swedes who are more left wing than America partially privatized their social security. Did you hear that? These guys are not exactly right wingers. Granted they only invest a small portion in the market. I suspect more is coming.

I have an idea why the Dems dislike this. It gives too much control to the working bees over their own money. The Dem concept is that government is everything.


It is understandable that you think that those that are not "republicans" are "democrats" and that they all have to have some sort of monolithic thinking process. If we agree with general social safety-network like European nations then we need by default to agree with everything else they do. This is a mistake.

Social security funds are actually invested via the social security trust fund. Granted, they hold US treasury bonds which are not the juiciest investments most of the time and currently are paying a petty amount.
I would not be oposed if a small percentage was on total stacks via some sort of index fund but that would be the limit of what I would consider reasonable. Having the government work as a hedge fund manager with their big fat thumb on the scale is not remotely fair nor appetizing. On the other hand, having a large portion of the fund on stocks poses a threat should the markets experience a large recesion. Imagine that... markets down, old people that were planning on retiring later, now decides that they will retire because the economy is in the shitter, meanwhile, tax revenues are down because the economy is shit... thats a lot of stress.
I don't believe index fund investment was a thing back when SSN was created. Like I said, I would not be oposed if a modest portion is like this. Either way, I don't think it would make a huge difference. The demographics and tax revenues have a far bigger impact on the solvency of SS than the lack of investment in a particular asset class.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15112689
blackjack21 wrote:It's a pay-as-you-go wealth transfer. It is not insurance or a retirement account. There is no money backing it up. It can be cancelled at any time. A lot of people think it's like a policy or a contract. Legally, it is not at all.

Financially it is partially structured that way. However, the is a surplus and there is actual money backing it up which is held in a trust.

Technically you can cancel whatever, you could cancel the US constitution for that matter if you get enough people to back up your claims.

Independently of the internal mechanics of how the finances are arranged, the end result is that it serves as an insurance system.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15112691
XogGyux wrote:It is understandable that you think that those that are not "republicans" are "democrats" and that they all have to have some sort of monolithic thinking process. If we agree with general social safety-network like European nations then we need by default to agree with everything else they do. This is a mistake.

Social security funds are actually invested via the social security trust fund. Granted, they hold US treasury bonds which are not the juiciest investments most of the time and currently are paying a petty amount.
I would not be oposed if a small percentage was on total stacks via some sort of index fund but that would be the limit of what I would consider reasonable. Having the government work as a hedge fund manager with their big fat thumb on the scale is not remotely fair nor appetizing. On the other hand, having a large portion of the fund on stocks poses a threat should the markets experience a large recesion. Imagine that... markets down, old people that were planning on retiring later, now decides that they will retire because the economy is in the shitter, meanwhile, tax revenues are down because the economy is shit... thats a lot of stress.
I don't believe index fund investment was a thing back when SSN was created. Like I said, I would not be oposed if a modest portion is like this. Either way, I don't think it would make a huge difference. The demographics and tax revenues have a far bigger impact on the solvency of SS than the lack of investment in a particular asset class.

OK, I do not disagree. But, be clear that your resistance is basically because MAN is a corrupt beast and that makes sense.
The government is in the pocket of big business. For example the IRS could put out free tax software so the average Joe Blow can do taxes, but the gov does not want to put Turbo Tax out of business. The government could also sell a public health plan that would destroy the private insurers. The overhead of Medicare is small when compared to the private companies. I dislike rent seeking crony capitalism as it creates no wealth.

However, we must come back to Earth. The bulk of the people want free stuff and hence that is why the Dems are in business. BTW, the Dems have also successfully sold the idea that minorities should never vote GOP because they are the racism party.
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By Drlee
#15112694
Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and will run out of money soon. It will work OK until it runs its natural course. At some point it the funds will have to go into the market under the workers direction.


Social Security is far more stable than any private sector investment. Never mind for the moment that pumping that much money into the economy would be wildly inflationary. Government bonds are a pretty neutral investment anyway. I would much rather have the government manage the money than to have some Wall Street type do it. If the government fucks up Social Security, we can fire them. Can't fire the CEO of Exxon.

But since you want to be a conservative, how about asking why your darling Republicans, before the Covid crisis, while the economy was flying high, spent like drunken sailors and put us ridiculously in debt. And don't even think about talking about Obama. Trump was in charge and did not even wink at deficit reduction. Republican always talk about it and literally never do anything about it.

We have a 100% method of funding SS Medicare and Medicaid. Just fire a few republican Senators and congressmen and the money will flow like wine.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15112696
Julian658 wrote:OK, I do not disagree. But, be clear that your resistance is basically because MAN is a corrupt beast and that makes sense.
The government is in the pocket of big business. For example the IRS could put out free tax software so the average Joe Blow can do taxes, but the gov does not want to put Turbo Tax out of business. The government could also sell a public health plan that would destroy the private insurers. The overhead of Medicare is small when compared to the private companies. I dislike rent seeking crony capitalism as it creates no wealth.

However, we must come back to Earth. The bulk of the people want free stuff and hence that is why the Dems are in business. BTW, the Dems have also successfully sold the idea that minorities should never vote GOP because they are the racism party.


Forget software. The tax system itself could be simplified and get rid of most deductions/loopholes and bring down brackets so that the expected tax rate is similar to what you would get with all the stupid deductions and shit and it could essentially be done by a high-schooler. Even better, paid by your employers without bothering you about due dates and nonsensical things that scare the shit out of you getting audited... they are already withholding your shit... Anyhow, won't happen.

It seems that every time we go down the rabbit we end up coming to the same end point. Yes... both Republicans and Democrats are bought up by big money in politics, favors to important/powerful people, etc. I don't think that the democrats care particularly more than the republicans about any of these issues, but they do claim that they do. Given that the republican electorate flat out does not care, we cannot use that avenue to put any sort of pressure/leverage.
The only avenue for pressure/leverage that we have, is on the democrats because they are the ones that claim to care about this stuff and the ones that we can potentially hold accountable. Most of the times they will disappoint... but that exposes the most corrupt of them and with some luck a progressive dethrone them and we get a bit more progress. It is a slow, grueling process but if people stay focussed it can work. We got Obamacare, and with all its defects it was actually better than what we had before.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15112699
Julian658 wrote:Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and will run out of money soon.


Don The Con ran up a $1,000,000,000,000 federal debt prior to covid. Where did that $ come from? The Fed? Thin air? God?

If SS runs into trouble the same can be done except for Republicans who would rather "privatize" (code word for rob/steal) it.

Plus , over 60,000,000 Americans collect SS. See how many elections you are going to win if you fuck with a retirement plan that 60,000,000 have paid into :lol: I think this alone will cause even Republicans to reign in their seemingly bottomless greed.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15112700
jimjam wrote:Plus , over 60,000,000 Americans collect SS. See how many elections you are going to win if you fuck with a retirement plan that 60,000,000 have paid into :lol: I think this alone will cause even Republicans to reign in their seemingly bottomless greed.

Don't underestimate their capability to lie or the gullibility of their voters. After all, you just had trump and some republicans blaming democrats who signed a bill over 2 months ago.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15112704
XogGyux wrote:Don't underestimate their capability to lie or the gullibility of their voters. After all, you just had trump and some republicans blaming democrats who signed a bill over 2 months ago.


true but, as I say over and over, money talks and bullshit walks. even morons will take note when their money is diminished (except via inflation which is way too complex for your typical trump moron to fathom.)
By Patrickov
#15112707
Sivad wrote:Both camps are mostly fucking bootlickers. The defunders don't want to get rid of cops, they want to turn social workers into cops and get government minders up in every facet of everybody's life. They want an army of woketards enforcing social justice with full state authority:

Fuck that. If that's the plan I'll stick with the devil I know.



Sorry, I can see you think their proposal is bad, but I cannot comprehend how you think their proposal is bad.

My only concern is that they look no match to professional crime committers, but I am not sure if my doubt is founded.
By Patrickov
#15112708
Drlee wrote:If the government fucks up Social Security, we can fire them.


I don't think this is as easy as you suggest here, even in the United States and the United Kingdom, as apparently both countries are being run by those you see as perpetrators.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15112711
jimjam wrote:Don The Con ran up a $1,000,000,000,000 federal debt prior to covid. Where did that $ come from? The Fed? Thin air? God?

If SS runs into trouble the same can be done except for Republicans who would rather "privatize" (code word for rob/steal) it.

Plus , over 60,000,000 Americans collect SS. See how many elections you are going to win if you fuck with a retirement plan that 60,000,000 have paid into :lol: I think this alone will cause even Republicans to reign in their seemingly bottomless greed.

I suppose Social security can receive a booster if 100% of income pays fica tax.
The problem is that the young people of this era have a very low fertility rate. Some don’t even get laid till their mid 20s.

That is why Europe had to import migrants. They needed young blood for the social security.
By Sivad
#15112753
Patrickov wrote:Sorry, I can see you think their proposal is bad, but I cannot comprehend how you think their proposal is bad.


The plan is to replace police officers with social justice officers. It's a political coup of crazy woketard militants taking over policing. Once they control policing they'll use police powers to enforce their extremist ideology. It's just another institutional long march to further consolidate their power. That's how these fake left prog fascisti operate.


My only concern is that they look no match to professional crime committers


I'm more worried about them wielding state power against anyone and everyone who isn't drinking their kool-aid.
User avatar
By Beren
#15112840
So the latest Trump rally seems to have ended at 42.7 and he's been unable to reach 44 since April 4 (for more than 4 months). There also appears to be a linear downward trend since then.

Real Clear Politics wrote:Image

Oops.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15112842
I suppose Social security can receive a booster if 100% of income pays fica tax.
The problem is that the young people of this era have a very low fertility rate. Some don’t even get laid till their mid 20s.


I would favor that. I favor 100% fica tax even though it would hit me to the tune of about 10% of my income.

I also would not concern yourself with the fertility rate. My observation is though that my young students and associates are getting more ass than a toilet seat. Maybe it is a medical thing.
User avatar
By Beren
#15112853
CNBC wrote:"As far as I know, a vaccine against a new coronavirus infection has been registered this morning, for the first time in the world," Putin said at a meeting with members of the government, RIA Novosti reported. "Although I know that it works quite effectively, it forms a stable immunity and, I repeat, has passed all the necessary checks," Putin said. Russia's health minister has previously said they plan to roll the vaccine out for public use in October, the Journal reported.

October surprise from Russia?
By Doug64
#15112875
Pants-of-dog wrote:So right wing libertarians support cops when they kneel on a person’s neck for over eight minutes because “thugs”.

Meanwhile, real libertarians are advocating for defunding or abolishing the police.

What “real libertarians” are throwing their support behind scenes like this?

More than 100 arrests, 13 officers hurt amid Chicago looting

    More than 100 people were arrested Monday following a night of looting and unrest that left 13 officers injured and caused damage in the city’s upscale Magnificent Mile shopping district and other parts of the city, authorities said.

    Police Superintendent David Brown said it “was not an organized protest” but instead “an incident of pure criminality” that began following the shooting of a person by police the previous day in the city’s Englewood neighborhood. At one point early Monday, shots were fired at police and officers returned fire. Brown said a heavy police presence is expected in the downtown area until further notice.

    “This was straight up, felony criminal conduct,” said Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot. “This was an assault on our city.”

    Those arrested were expected to face charges including looting, disorderly conduct, battery against police. Lightfoot said that the city has activated a neighborhood protection program that will be in place “for foreseeable days until we know our neighborhoods are safe.”

    No officers were injured in the shooting, police spokesman Tom Ahern said on Twitter. Many of the businesses that were ransacked had recently opened after Chicago protests of George Floyd’s May 25 death in Minneapolis devolved into chaos.

    The unrest began shortly after midnight and anti-police graffiti was seen in the area of the Magnificent Mile, which is one of Chicago’s most-visited tourist attractions. Hours earlier, dozens of people had faced off with police after officers shot and wounded a person Sunday in the Englewood neighborhood, located about 10 miles (16 kilometers) away.

    Brown said after a crowd dissipated following that shooting “we are monitoring social media and we come across a post of a caravan of cars being prompted to go to our downtown and loot.”

    Along the Magnificent Mile, people were seen going in and out of stores carrying shopping bags full of merchandise as well as at a bank, the Chicago Tribune reported, and as the crowd grew vehicles dropped off more people in the area.

    On streets throughout the downtown area, empty cash drawers from stores were strewn about and ATMs were ripped open.

    Stores miles from downtown were also ransacked, with parking lots littered with glass and items from inside the stores. Clothes hangers and boxes that once contained television sets and other electronics were seen — evidence that thieves had taken racks of clothes and removed them from the hangers.

    “This was obviously very orchestrated,” the Rev. Michael Pfleger, a prominent Roman Catholic priest and activist on the city’s South Side, told WBBM-TV as cameras panned the downtown area.

    One officer was seen slumped against a building, several arrests were made and a rock was thrown at a police vehicle, the newspaper said. Police worked early Monday to disperse the crowds.

    There was a large police presence Monday morning outside an Apple store located north of Chicago’s downtown area. Blocks away, debris was strewn in parking lots in front of a Best Buy and a large liquor store.

    Train and bus service into downtown was temporarily suspended at the request of public safety officials, the Chicago Transit Authority said on Twitter. Bridges over the Chicago River were lifted, preventing travel to and from the downtown area, and Illinois State Police blocked some expressway ramps into downtown.

    Access was being restored later Monday morning.

    Chicago and its suburbs, like many other cities, saw unrest following the death of Floyd. Chicago’s central business district and its commercial areas were shut down for several days after violence erupted and stores were damaged in the wake of marches protesting Floyd’s death. Floyd, a Black man who was handcuffed, died after a white officer pressed his knee against Floyd’s neck for nearly eight minutes as Floyd said he couldn’t breathe.

    In the Sunday shooting in Englewood, police said in a statement that they responded about 2:30 p.m. Sunday to a call about a person with a gun and tried to confront someone matching his description in an alley. He fled from officers on foot and shot at officers, police said.

    Officers returned fire, wounding him, and a gun was recovered, police said. He was taken to a hospital for treatment and three officers involved also were taken to a hospital for observation, the statement said.

    More than an hour after the shooting, police and witnesses said a crowd faced off with police after someone reportedly told people that police had shot and wounded a child. That crowd eventually dispersed.

No, the people making in kind contributions to the Republicans and Trump campaigns are lunatics like BLM Chicago:

Black Lives Matter holds rally in Chicago to support those arrested after looting, unrest

    Black Lives Matter members in Chicago held a rally on Monday to support the more than 100 arrested last night following widespread looting and rioting that caused at least $60 million in property damage and saw 13 police officers injured, according to a report.

    The rally was organized by Black Lives Matter Chicago and was held at a police station in the South Loop where organizers say individuals are currently being held in custody. At least one organizer called the looting tantamount to "reparations."

    “I don’t care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy’s or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats,” said Ariel Atkins, a BLM organizer, according to NBC Chicago. “That makes sure that person has clothes.”

    “That is reparations,” Atkins continued. “Anything they wanted to take, they can take it because these businesses have insurance.”

    The unrest was prompted by a social media post urging people to converge on Chicago’s business district after police shot a man on the South Side around 2:30 p.m. Sunday.

    Officers had responded to a call about a man with a gun in the Englewood neighborhood. While being pursued by police, the man, who was on foot, “turned and fired shots” at officers before being struck himself and taken to a local hospital, Deputy Chief Delonda Tally told Fox 32 Chicago.

    Latrell Allen, 20, was charged with attempted murder Monday after firing on officers, according to Chicago police. A video posted on Facebook around 6:30 p.m. falsely claimed that officers had shot and killed a 15-year-old boy.

    The shooting prompted hundreds of people to descend on downtown Chicago early Monday with vandals smashing the windows of dozens of businesses and making off with merchandise, cash machines and anything else they could carry, police said.

    “This was not an organized protest. Rather, this was an incident of pure criminality," Police Superintendent David Brown told reporters. "This was an act of violence against our police officers and against our city.”

    BLM organizers criticized police reports surrounding the shooting, noting that none of the officers involved had body cameras, which investigators confirmed, according to NBC Chicago.

    Black Lives Matter Chicago issued a statement obtained by the Chicago Sun-Times that read, “The mayor clearly has not learned anything since May, and she would be wise to understand that the people will keep rising up until the [Chicago Police Department] is abolished and our Black communities are fully invested in,” the group said in a statement.

    “Police say a lot of things,” Atkins added. “Even though the Department of Justice said with the consent decree they are no longer allowed to chase people, they decided they were going to chase, and they shot this young man multiple times."

That BLM lunacy is a story the MSM(D) doesn’t want much attention paid to, it makes the Left look bad. Too bad for them Fox News lacks their sensitivities, and as the New York Times has noted they’re the ones to go to if you want people to hear your story—or don’t want to have around if you don’t want people to hear your story:

The New York Times discovers Fox News

    It took a while. But The New York Times is now “woke” about the significance of Fox News and its consistent astronomical ratings, massive audiences and relentless programming that resonates with millions of viewers. Fox News, in fact, has been the top-rated cable news network for 18 consecutive years. The Gray Lady has acknowledged the network — and it is a telling cultural moment.

    “In June and July, Fox News was the highest-rated television channel in the prime-time hours of 8 to 11 p.m. Not just on cable. Not just among news networks. All of television. The average live Fox News viewership in those hours outstripped cable rivals like CNN, MSNBC and ESPN, as well as the broadcast networks ABC, CBS and NBC, according to Nielsen,” the new organization said in an analysis of current ratings numbers released Monday.

    “That three-hour slot is a narrow but significant slice of TV real estate, and it is exceedingly rare for a basic-cable channel to outrank the Big Three broadcasters, which are available in more households and offer a wider variety of programming,” The Times continued.

    “Even the return of live sports did little to stop the momentum: The Fox News programs hosted by Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity drew more live viewers than competing baseball and basketball games, including a Yankees-Nationals matchup on Opening Day.”

    “It pains the New York Times to admit it, but this summer, Fox News is dominating prime-time television,” writes John Hinderaker, founder of PowerLine.com.

    Inside the Beltway, meanwhile, has followed the status of Fox News for years. The network offers a unique reflection of the public’s emerging media preferences and political beliefs — plus a healthy dose of pro-America sentiment. Such things are often overlooked by liberal news organizations — though such sources appear to enjoy a good rumor that President Trump is dissatisfied with Fox News for some reason and out to “slam” the network, as People put it earlier this year.
Last edited by Doug64 on 12 Aug 2020 05:06, edited 1 time in total.
By Pants-of-dog
#15112881
@Doug64

Please try to make more of an effort than merely copying and pasting biased articles.

Even if some people who are not even associated with BLM are acting in ways that you do not like, the fact is that supoorting police brutality and extrajudicial killings by police is logically inconsistent with the libertarian tenet of minimising (and hopefully eradicating altogether) state actions against individuals.
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