Should COVID vaccine be mandatory? - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Should COVID vaccine be mandatory?

Yes
12
41%
No
13
45%
Other
4
14%
#15112845
Kennedy is a lawyer who's spent the last 15 years litigating the issue. That's a decade and a half of talking to experts, studying the science, closely following the regulatory developments, meeting with parents of vaccine injured children, preparing briefs and arguing it in courtrooms.


An No. But no surprise you are enamored with him. Confirmation bias much?

Kennedy has spent his time not in a search for truth but in a search for experts who are willing to support his client's claims, for money. He is not ever going to look at the real evidence and tell his client "Hit the road. You have no case."

Remember Sivad, in a civil court battle the truth is not relevant. The truth is what you can get the judge or 7 of 12 jurors to believe. And none of these folks have even a rudimentary understanding of the science they are being fed.
#15113251
Compulsory vaccination for everyone

don't allow religious or personal objections, and create disincentives for those who refuse vaccines shown to be safe and effective

Disincentives for noncompliance

Vaccine refusers could lose tax credits or be denied nonessential government benefits. Health insurers could levy higher premiums for those who by refusing immunization place themselves and others at risk, as is the case for smokers. Private businesses could refuse to employ or serve unvaccinated individuals. Schools could refuse to allow unimmunized children to attend classes. Public and commercial transit companies — airlines, trains and buses — could exclude refusers. Public and private auditoriums could require evidence of immunization for entry.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 289948001/


#15113396
'Do Not Trust The Medical Or The National Security Establishment!' With Guest Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

Nephew of President John F. Kennedy, son of Robert F. Kennedy, and tireless crusader against the tyranny of the mainstream medical establishment, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. joins today's Liberty Report to discuss his startling discoveries about who really killed his father and uncle...and why. Plus, Mr. Kennedy, an environmental lawyer, has been among the most vocal and most successful opponents of the mainstream medical establishment, driven by big Pharma to inoculate and medicate everything that moves. He tells the Liberty Report how he very reluctantly decided to dedicate his career to fighting the mandatory vaccines that have resulted in so many documented injuries to the recipients.
#15113568
Drlee wrote:An No. But no surprise you are enamored with him. Confirmation bias much?

Kennedy has spent his time not in a search for truth but in a search for experts who are willing to support his client's claims, for money. He is not ever going to look at the real evidence and tell his client "Hit the road. You have no case."

Remember Sivad, in a civil court battle the truth is not relevant. The truth is what you can get the judge or 7 of 12 jurors to believe. And none of these folks have even a rudimentary understanding of the science they are being fed.

This is certainly true of the U.S. adversarial system of litigation . Experts may testify as to the case evidence presented ; but it is up to a jury to come to a conclusion , correct or not . Case in point , unrelated to this contentious topic of vaccines .
To hold that just because a jury finds a certain way that its necessarily accurate would be to commit the consensus / appeal to the people fallacy .
#15115072
Godstud wrote:@Sivad Demonstrates time and time again, the logic fallacy of appealing to authority.

You're the Liberal authoritarian. Sivad is not trying to ban vaccines. You're the one that supported the 2014 Thailand coup. You're the one that opposes bringing the perpetrators of the coup to justice to pay for their crimes. You're the one that's happy with an appointed Senate in Thailand, but yet seems obsessed with the slightest alleged anti democratic move by Trump, in a country that you are neither a citizen or a resident.

Fascistic Liberals have enjoyed a good run on the Xi virus so far, as fascistic Conservatives enjoyed a good run for years after 9/11. However there are promising signs that the wind may be changing, in Britain it seems that large percentages of people say they will refuse to have their children vaccinated. I was reading a (British) Daily Mail article. Nothing unusual, a scare story about the 1000 cases a day in Italy. What was notable was the comments, about 85% were totally rejecting the lockdown liberal agenda.
#15115073
Rich wrote:You're the Liberal authoritarian. Sivad is not trying to ban vaccines. You're the one that supported the 2014 Thailand coup. You're the one that opposes bringing the perpetrators of the coup to justice to pay for their crimes. You're the one that's happy with an appointed Senate in Thailand, but yet seems obsessed with the slightest alleged anti democratic move by Trump, in a country that you are neither a citizen or a resident.

Fascistic Liberals have enjoyed a good run on the Xi virus so far, as fascistic Conservatives enjoyed a good run for years after 9/11. However there are promising signs that the wind may be changing, in Britain it seems that large percentages of people say they will refuse to have their children vaccinated. I was reading a (British) Daily Mail article. Nothing unusual, a scare story about the 1000 cases a day in Italy. What was notable was the comments, about 85% were totally rejecting the lockdown liberal agenda.



I think it is a stretch to explain one's own reason of (not) receiving vaccine with political speculations.

My only explanation of not getting vaccine myself is that I actively take other measures to ensure myself not being infected and not to infect others, such that I think I am exposing myself to unknown risk for taking the vaccine now. However, if others want to take it I have absolutely no problem.

Let's just keep things simple. Most speculations seem to complicate matters and is effectively propaganda.
#15115088
Patrickov wrote:I think it is a stretch to explain one's own reason of (not) receiving vaccine with political speculations.

My only explanation of not getting vaccine myself is that I actively take other measures to ensure myself not being infected and not to infect others, such that I think I am exposing myself to unknown risk for taking the vaccine now. However, if others want to take it I have absolutely no problem.



Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Everyone is a covid19 suspect, including you. You are going to have to take the vaccine no matter how careful you are, or how healthy your immune system is.

Jeffrey Epstein's friend, who has no medical credentials, says so.
#15115089
Jeffrey Epstein's friend, who has no medical credentials, says so.


Do you believe this trolling makes you sound smart? IT doesn't. It makes you sound like Rush Limbaugh ( graduate of high school) has his hand up your ass.
#15115093
@Rich You are engaging in Strawman argument because you can't form a cogent argument. I never supported any coup or senate. I am not a political activist any more than you are. I have no more say in their government than you have. Why haven't you stepped up and changed things? Is it because you support the Thai government?

Stick to the topic.
#15115128
Moderna is an American biotechnology company focused on drug discovery, drug development, and vaccine technologies based exclusively on messenger RNA (mRNA). It is headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The Moderna technology platform is to insert synthetic mRNA into living cells that would reprogram the cells to develop immune responses, rather than being created externally and injected as with conventional medicines. It is a novel technique abandoned by several large pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies that were unable to overcome the side effects of inserting RNA into cells. As of May 2020, no mRNA drug has been approved for human use.

Moderna




As Moderna’s Covid-19 Vaccine Takes The Lead, Its Chief Medical Officer’s Recent Promotion Of “Gene-Editing Vaccines” Comes To Light


Moderna’s chief medical officer has described the company’s products as “hacking the software of life” and permanently altering a person’s genetic code. If Moderna is poised to bring the first Covid-19 vaccine to market, a deeper look at his comments and his employer are warranted.

More and more frequently, government officials, political pundits and self-appointed “global health experts” like billionaire Bill Gates have been instructing the public that mass gatherings and any semblance of “normalcy” will not return until a vaccine for the novel coronavirus Covid-19 is created and subsequently distributed to the masses. In recent weeks, it has quickly become apparent that the leading Covid-19 vaccine candidate is the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine being developed by Boston-based Moderna Inc.

Today, Moderna announced that its vaccine candidate, named mRNA-1273, “appeared to produce an immune response in eight people who received it.” Moderna’s response is odd given that the “study” in question is focused on safety and “is actually not designed to measure effectiveness of the vaccine,” according to a report in TIME. Notably, none of the study’s findings on vaccine safety were reported aside from claims it was “generally safe.” It is also worth noting that this “safety-focused” study only began in March and thus, to date, represents only an examination of the vaccine’s effects in the very short term.

Major media outlets in multiple countries ran with the headlines trumpeting that Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccine “shows promising early results” and has presented “encouraging early signs” because of its purported ability to produce Covid-19 antibodies in humans. In addition, these media reports failed to raise other simple yet necessary questions such as how a sample size of only eight people can translate into scientific findings of any real significance without further testing involving larger sample sizes. They also failed to note that the study in question is not even finished as a U.S. government press release noted that the findings in question are merely “interim results.” In addition, the study is being led by the U.S.’ National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), itself headed by Dr. Anthony Fauci, who is a key figure in the U.S. government’s coronavirus response.

Though it is unclear if these “encouraging early signs” will be replicated in future tests of larger samples that are actually designed to test the vaccine’s effectiveness, the news is surely welcome to Moderna, given that their past mRNA vaccines failed to produce hardly any immune response at all, explaining why the company has never brought an mRNA vaccine to market in its entire history as a company.

However, since at least last fall, Moderna has sought to resolve this issue by adding “nanoparticles” to its mRNA vaccine, a modification financed by the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). Moderna is a “strategic ally” of DARPA and has received millions from DARPA and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation several years prior to the current coronavirus crisis. DARPA’s plans for nanoparticles and nanotechnology and their potentially Orwellian applications were the subject of a recent The Last American Vagabond report.

Thanks to the “interim results” of this new study, Moderna is set to take the lead in the race to gain government approval for a Covid-19 vaccine. Moderna had already pulled ahead of other Covid-19 vaccine candidates in recent weeks, being the first vaccine in the U.S. to go the human trials (after it was allowed to skip animal trials) and also enjoying strong support from the U.S. government. For instance, Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccine recently received fast-track approval from the Food and Drug administration (FDA) after receiving the “green light” to proceed to Phase 2 testing prior to the results of Phase 1 being published. Moderna’s president, Dr. Stephen Hoge, recently said the company now expects to begin the final third phase of testing sometime this summer.

In addition to support from the FDA, Moderna has also received considerable U.S. government funding ($438 million) from the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), a division of HHS overseen by HHS’ Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response (ASPR) Robert Kadlec. Moderna has also stated that it is directly collaborating with the U.S. government to bring its vaccine candidate to market.

Moderna’s considerable lead has also been the result of backing that it received in January from the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), which was founded in 2017 by the governments of Norway and India along with the World Economic Forum (WEF) and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccine has also received additional millions from long-time Moderna backer Bill Gates. Gates recently authored an article where he described Moderna’s mRNA vaccine for Covid-19 as the “most exciting” and discussed it at length.



Gates’ affinity for Moderna may owe to the fact that Moderna’s co-founder, MIT’s Robert Langer, is a Gates associate whose lab developed the Gates-funded “quantum dot ‘tattoo’” vaccine identification marker that is “visible using a special smartphone camera app and filter” and was described by Science Alert as “a low-risk tracking system.” Another Langer-Gates partnership is a “birth control microchip” inserted to the body that releases contraceptives and can be turned on and off wirelessly.

Meet Dr. Zaks

With Moderna taking a firm lead relative to the other Covid-19 vaccine hopefuls, it is worth taking a closer look at the man who has overseen its development, Moderna’s current Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Tal Zaks. Zaks, an Israeli citizen who began his career at GlaxoSmithKline, oversees “preclinical development, clinical development and regulatory affairs” for Moderna and all of its subsidiaries.

In a 2017 TED Talk, two years after joining Moderna, Zaks spoke at length about how he views mRNA vaccines and their modality, including those he produces at Moderna. In a speech entitled “The disease-eradicating potential of gene editing,” Zaks’ description of Moderna’s mRNA products as, making permanent edits to human genes, clashes with often touted claims that the genetic material in mRNA vaccines “degrade” over time and do not permanently alter human genetics like DNA vaccines.

Beginning his talk, Zaks states that Moderna and similar companies “are actually hacking the software of life and that it’s changing the way we think of and treat disease.” He describes mRNA as “critical information that determines what a cell will actually do” and then states that, if one could “introduce a line of code or change a line of code” in a person’s genome, that has “profound implications for everything.” He then falsely claims that Moderna’s products at the time were proven to “work in people” as the company, prior to Covid-19, was never able to convince the federal government to license its mRNA vaccines for human use due to their lack of effectiveness.

Zaks further described his view of well-known diseases like cancer as being caused by “screwed-up DNA” that can be “fixed” with Moderna mRNA vaccines, which he also refers to in the talk as “information therapy” given that he says Moderna’s vaccines work by altering the “operating systems” of human cells, i.e. their genetic code.


The summary of Zaks’ talk encapsulates his view as the following simple question: “If our cells are the hardware and our genetic material the operating system, what if we could change a few lines of code?” — seemingly suggesting that the permanent introduction of changes into the human genome is as simple as troubleshooting or programming a computer or phone application. It also says that Zaks considers the future of “personalized medicine” to be “gene-editing vaccines tailored to each patient’s immune system.” The Ted Talk recommended after viewing Zaks’ speech on the Ted Talk website notably broaches a key point that Zaks overlooks, namely that gene-editing can “change an entire species – forever.”

Zaks’ statements are noteworthy and concerning for several reasons, including the fact that DARPA — Moderna’s “strategic ally” — is also openly funding research aimed at “reprogramming genes” and “manipulat[ing] genes or control[ling] gene expression to combat viruses and help human bodies withstand infection” caused by Covid-19. The DARPA-backed project would use a method that is known to cause severe genetic damage that has actually been shown to aggravate the conditions it was meant to cure.

With such permanent gene-altering technology on the fast-track to become the first Covid-19 vaccine widely available for use, it is deeply concerning that this experimental vaccine with potentially far-reaching consequences is being rammed through thanks to fervent support from both the U.S. government and controversial philanthropists that apparently have little interest in studies examining the mRNA vaccine’s long-term effects. Given that the stage has already been set for mandatory vaccinations that will be “distributed” throughout the U.S. by the military, now is the time to vigorously raise awareness about the Moderna vaccine’s gravely under-reported ability to “hack the software of life” in ways that could harm public health.


https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com ... -vaccines/

#15115139
The next step in Liberal decline from reality will be when they criticize any vaccine put out by the Trump Administration, just as with Russian vaccines. Chinese vaccines? You'll hear nothing from Liberals on that.

I understand that there's risk, maybe with some vaccines for sure in development. But that won't be the real issue, the real issue will be antipathy towards Trump, anything he says, anything he does.
#15115154
annatar1914 wrote:The next step in Liberal decline from reality will be when they criticize any vaccine put out by the Trump Administration, just as with Russian vaccines. Chinese vaccines? You'll hear nothing from Liberals on that.

I understand that there's risk, maybe with some vaccines for sure in development. But that won't be the real issue, the real issue will be antipathy towards Trump, anything he says, anything he does.


If Trump derangement causes a freak outburst of rational skepticism among liberals then I'll take it. I don't look gift horses in the mouth.
#15115156
Sivad wrote:If Trump derangement causes a freak outburst of rational skepticism among liberals then I'll take it. I don't look gift horses in the mouth.


I have skepticism about anything people do, especially if there's money involved. But to be skeptical of vaccines on general principle is a bridge too far for me to cross.
#15115159
annatar1914 wrote: But to be skeptical of vaccines on general principle is a bridge too far for me to cross.


To be credulous of vaccines on general principle is a bridge too far for me to cross.

Nobody except maybe a few fringe extremists like christian scientists and hasidic jews opposes vaccination in principle. Most opposition to mandatory vaccination is based on the demonstrable lack of sound vaccine safety science and the massive incestuous corruption between vaccine manufacturers and the public health institutions that regulate vaccine safety.
#15115162
Sivad wrote:To be credulous of vaccines on general principle is a bridge too far for me to cross.

Nobody except maybe a few fringe extremists like christian scientists and hasidic jews opposes vaccination in principle. Most opposition to mandatory vaccination is based on the demonstrable lack of sound vaccine safety science and the massive incestuous corruption between vaccine manufacturers and the public health institutions that regulate vaccine safety.


Fair enough. However, I wouldn't get too exited about the coming sudden rush of people who suddenly discover that vaccines are something to be attacked when the ''other side'' are the ones putting it out, if I were you.
#15115164
annatar1914 wrote:However, I wouldn't get too exited about the coming sudden rush of people who suddenly discover that vaccines are something to be attacked when the ''other side'' are the ones putting it out, if I were you.


You brought it up, you said liberals would reject any vaccine developed under Trump. I was just responding to your post.
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