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By annatar1914
#15121778
Beren wrote:That's for sure. :lol:


As I said, more like a Senator Douglas, a populist who wanted to bring the civic moral issue of the day down to the will of the American people, which was as good as maintaining the status quo while having the appearance of the moral high ground by flattery of the people.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15121780
annatar1914 wrote:You're deflecting from the immediate issue at hand. It seems well and good at first glance that Trump does not want us to expect ''salvation'' from government, but I take exception to the idea of America being the ''most free, just, and exceptional nation on Earth'', which somewhat contradicts your idea in the sense that rather proves my point, in this view that America is the best because we have such a limited government, that America is pretty much heaven on earth because of the least amount of government possible.

The Democrats will do anything to regain that total control from President Trump, who they cannot control, even if it means tearing the country apart. They believe that they can control "Creepy" Joe Biden, who is a follower. The Trump of God is a leader that can lead us in the right direction to put America first again. Russia, China, or Iran are certainly not in the running for the most free, just, and exceptional nation on Earth. So which nation is your pick?
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By annatar1914
#15121781
Hindsite wrote:The Democrats will do anything to regain that total control from President Trump, who they cannot control, even if it means tearing the country apart. They believe that they can control "Creepy" Joe Biden, who is a follower. The Trump of God is a leader that can lead us in the right direction to put America first again. Russia, China, or Iran are certainly not in the running for the most free, just, and exceptional nation on Earth. So which nation is your pick?


There is no ''free, just, or exceptional nation on earth'' in the modern age for the most part. You believe in a religion called ''Americanism'' if you think otherwise, not Christianity.
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By Beren
#15121783
The Guardian wrote:Can we use the F word yet? Can we finally admit that America is dipping its feet in fascism? Armed militias are roaming the streets; Donald Trump is laying the groundwork to discredit the results of the 2020 election; the press has been labelled the “enemy of the people”; there are credible allegations that migrant women in detention camps are being coerced into having their uteruses removed; “anti-fascists” have been branded public enemy number one. And now Trump has announced a “national commission to support patriotic education” – in other words, a racist propaganda program.
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By Hindsite
#15121785
annatar1914 wrote:There is no ''free, just, or exceptional nation on earth'' in the modern age for the most part. You believe in a religion called ''Americanism'' if you think otherwise, not Christianity.

I said the most free, just, and exceptional nation on earth. Certainly no nation is perfect. Everyone should know that.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15121788
@Hindsite Pointed out another lie when President Trump lied about this: President Trump has defended the rights of Christians and Jews during his term in office and has criticized "Creepy" Joe Biden's Democrats for refusing to say the words "under God" when reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance" during their convention.

They did say them. 30 times.

So Hindsite is just lying for the person he has chosen to replace Jesus in his life.


WATCH: Trump Leaves Out ‘Under God’ During Pledge at 9/11 Ceremony


https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/watch-melania-trump-pledge-september-11/

I hate fake Christians.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15121789
Hindsite wrote:I said the most free, just, and exceptional nation on earth. Certainly no nation is perfect. Everyone should know that.


But it's still a proud and arrogant claim, with no reference to God and cut off from the historical experience of any other nation before it. America truly is revolutionary and provided the example for every other revolution after it.
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By annatar1914
#15121792
Drlee wrote:@Hindsite Pointed out another lie when President Trump lied about this: President Trump has defended the rights of Christians and Jews during his term in office and has criticized "Creepy" Joe Biden's Democrats for refusing to say the words "under God" when reciting the "Pledge of Allegiance" during their convention.

They did say them. 30 times.

So Hindsite is just lying for the person he has chosen to replace Jesus in his life.




https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/watch-melania-trump-pledge-september-11/

I hate fake Christians.


I don't hate anybody.

But this has become partisan in the stupid Democrat/Republican way, for was there any voices of Pro-Life Democrats heard at the DNC, people of God standing up for the sanctity of life for all? They say that ''hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue'' at least, and there's certainly enough in both camps to go around.

Although Heaven knows that God surely is offended by hypocrites.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15121793
Abortion is not a binary choice. Abortions fell under Obama.


Fix the social problems that demotivate a woman to have a child and the abortion rate will fall. The republicans are building a society in which abortions are inevitable. So we want that poor person to have a child. I know. Let's cut her benefits and take away her health care.

Consider that before you claim righteousness.
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By Beren
#15121814
Drlee wrote:So Hindsite is just lying for the person he has chosen to replace Jesus in his life.

Image
^ How could Jesus fit in there?

Or how could he sell so many weapons to Saudi Arabia? He couldn't create or save jobs like that, he probably wouldn't care about the economy so much.

Image
Jesus just couldn't be POTUS, such a great one as Trump especially, so it's better to believe in Trump instead, no matter how godless he is.

Image
Image
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15121815
Drlee wrote:Abortion is not a binary choice. Abortions fell under Obama.


Fix the social problems that demotivate a woman to have a child and the abortion rate will fall. The republicans are building a society in which abortions are inevitable. So we want that poor person to have a child. I know. Let's cut her benefits and take away her health care.

Consider that before you claim righteousness.


As you well know, I am a Socialist. Every life is precious to me, and so in my view justice should be done to and for all, insofar as is possible. But what should not be possible is calling things as they are not, we should call things by what they are even if it hurts or is unpopular or inconvenient. Wrong is wrong and right is right no matter how we may rationalize it. And I'm not saying this from a position of moral superiority personally or whatever, but grave sin is grave sin. But i'm not in a modern world that believes in such things as absolutes anymore, even though like gravity they still exist.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15121816
Beren wrote:Image
^ How could Jesus fit in there?

Or how could he sell so many weapons to Saudi Arabia? He couldn't create or save jobs like that, he probably wouldn't care about the economy so much.

Image
Jesus just couldn't be POTUS, such a great one as Trump especially, so it's better to believe in Trump instead, no matter how godless he is.

Image
Image


And this is why he will be re-elected. We all know this despite his imperfect ways and personal failings, or even because of them, which is why some people are lashing out evilly now in destructive and counter-productive ways because they know he'll win.
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By Hindsite
#15121831
annatar1914 wrote:But it's still a proud and arrogant claim, with no reference to God and cut off from the historical experience of any other nation before it. America truly is revolutionary and provided the example for every other revolution after it.

The Declaration of Independence does acknowledge the biblical doctrine of God as Creator without specifically using the word God.

“We deem these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator…”

The United States Constituion is dated in the following manner:
“the seventeenth day of September IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven.”
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By annatar1914
#15121836
@Hindsite ;

The Declaration of Independence does acknowledge the biblical doctrine of God as Creator without specifically using the word God.


Thomas Jefferson did not believe in the Biblical God, although he did vaguely believe in a somwhat impersonal ''Great Designer'' who made all things. But Jefferson didn't believe in miracles and wrote a Bible with all of them edited out.

“We deem these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator…”


Jefferson had enough of a Christian heritage to write that.

The United States Constituion is dated in the following manner:
“the seventeenth day of September IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven.”


This is also true that they did write that. Perhaps in some respects the Founders wrote better than they knew, and/or made assumptions that would be perfectly reasonable in their day.
By Doug64
#15121855
One of my good friends and favorite writers (self-published on Amazon through Kindle and print-on-demand) occasionally posts political commentary on his personal blog, Marion Harmon, a Writer in Vegas (he considers himself a "Radical Moderate"). Today, he posted his take on the current mess of an election and the judicial crisis (he expects Trump's nominee to be confirmed before the election). I won't copy the entire post, though it's worth checking out, but at the end he has his take on the four possible outcomes of the election I think is worth repeating:

    Road 1: Donald Trump wins reelection, with both an Electoral College and popular-vote victory.

    At this point the polls are so unreliable that I wouldn’t be surprised by this outcome. If it happens, the simmering constitutional crises won’t boil over, at least for now. There might be riots, and if there are then gun shops everywhere will do even brisker 2nd Am. business (they have had a very good summer).

    Road 2: Donald Trump wins reelection, again with an incontestable Electoral College victory but not a popular-vote victory.

    More likely than Road 1, and more dangerous. Riots are almost certain, and a majority of the country will be confirmed in their hatred for the EC. Resistance will kick into a higher gear, with half the country refusing to accept Trump as a legitimately sitting Chief Executive. Ironically, this will be a worse outcome for both parties as the Left moves further left, further alienating the Moderate Middle and further radicalizing the Far Right in response.

    Road 3: Donald Trump wins/loses reelection by a contestable voter margin in swing states.

    The darkest road. If the voting is this close, the country with go into recount-and-litigation mode. It will be Bush v. Gore writ large, playing out across several states at once and certain to be decided by a Supreme Court that Democrats are convinced the Republicans have stolen. The Supreme Court’s legitimacy will be at an all-time low at the moment it needs to be rock-solid.

    Road 4: Donald Trump loses his bid for reelection by an incontestable margin, Biden winning the Electoral College and popular vote.

    With the Big States tilting Democrat, it’s mathematically impossible for Biden to win the national popularity contest and lose in the Electoral College. No riots, but almost as perilous an outcome for the Supreme Court, which if the Democrats also take the Senate must now face a vengeful party.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15121857
You know Doug, I do not disagree with these scenarios. Let me tell you something that a fellow Republican and I hashed out the other day.

She is a very intelligent, well to do, educated woman. When she talks I listen. She asked me a question. "If you were running the Republican Party at this moment in time would you want to win the election?" Intriguing question. I listened to her idea and came up with this.

The best outcome for the party in general is for Trump to lose and to retain the Senate by a small majority. Here is why. Most people I speak with, and some 70 years of personal experience tells me that we are overdue for an economic correction. A very big one. Add to that the Covid crisis which is FAR from being over or even getting much better and there are tough times ahead. The Fed is out of options and has even thrown in the towel and said they would have to accept higher inflation. All of this adds up to this question. "Does the party want blame for the coming crash or do they want the Democrats to take the blame? Obviously the later. Consider:

1. If Biden wins and the Republicans keep the senate, Biden (and by extension the Democrats) take the blame for what could actually be a deep depression.

2. The majority in the Senate allows the Republicans to protect the tax and business advantages they have won for our real base....the wealthy.

3. They are protected by a solid conservative, capitalist majority in the Supreme Court.

4. They will consolidate their position as the "white" party and whites will be in the majority (and owning most of the big money) for a few decades yet.

5. They give up nothing power wise. Once the crash hits, they will be in a position to dictate terms during any recovery.

6. They get at least four years to wash themselves of Donald Trump. Now that he has gotten them their tax cut, stuffed the court and established the party's white nationalist bona fides, he is simply no longer a necessary irritant.

7. Trump was valuable in 2016 and 2017. He has been a fading asset since them. He has offended Christians, alienated the rest of the world and lost the house in a big way. If he gets four more years, with a Democratic Party controlled House tying his fiscal hands and exposing more and more of his chicanery and double dealing the Republican party may well cease to be a power for decades if not forever. If the Republicans lose all three in 2024 it is Katy bar the door.

The party may have missed the bus by not throwing him under the bus this time. But. A smart Republican with a long view, like a young congressman or a middle aged senator from a secure district/state, may just be secretly rooting for Biden. Or at least they ought to be. If they lose all three, especially right after forcing a SCOTUS choice their whole carefully constructed house of cards comes tumbling down. They will get national health care, voter rights, gerrymandering legislation and maybe even Puerto Rican and DC statehood which would presumably add 4 secure senate and house seats to the Democratic Party faithful.

You say you are not going to vote for Trump. I will tell you that not voting for Trump is doing the Republican Party and conservatism in general a thoughtful favor.
User avatar
By colliric
#15121864
Drlee wrote:You say you are not going to vote for Trump. I will tell you that not voting for Trump is doing the Republican Party and conservatism in general a thoughtful favor.




I will also tell you that not voting for Biden is doing the Democratic Party and progressives in general a thoughtful favour.

Hopefully Biden can then get some help with his advancing dementia, and maybe we can see the Democrats go back to the winning '08 strategy and put up a presidential candidate in his/her early-40s.

Michael Moore on Biden not campaigning in Michigan:
User avatar
By ingliz
#15121869
Doug64 wrote:possible outcomes

If we are getting all philosophical about this - every cause, an effect: every effect, a cause -> quantum theory and retrocausiality - you will see there is only one possible outcome and there's fuck all we can do that will change that.

"Que sera sera
What will be will be.
"


:)
Last edited by ingliz on 21 Sep 2020 09:05, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
By Beren
#15121870
colliric wrote:I will also tell you that not voting for Biden is doing the Democratic Party and progressives in general a thoughtful favour.

But Biden doesn't matter because he's just a figure to replace Trump in the Oval Office with. That's the difference between him and Hillary, that Hillary was more disliked (she really worked on it) and really meant to be (the first female) president. She was a perfect target for a smear campaign, which I'm sure was led and mostly executed by the Russians, like her emails were hacked by the Russians and Seth Rich also could be a Russian agent without even knowing it. Biden will be president like the president of Germany is president and people will mostly vote for him to oust Trump, not because they want him in the White House so much.
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