CCP announces plan to take control of China's private sector - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15121858
Igor Antunov wrote:Ironic coming from a random American, considering it is you who've been leeching off their labor market and have been importing most tools from them for the past 20 years and now your companies are starting to leech off THEIR massive consumer market also.


US and China has had a mutually beneficial relationship. Until stupid people have finally woken up and realized what everyone predicted 20 years has now come true and China is poised to overtake the US in economic and political power thanks to western business, and now westerners are freaking out.

China has always been stealing IP and spying etc. but now they're flexing political muscle to coerce western companies and government to capitulate on certain positions.

The US and China had better come to some kind of agreement and follow it in good faith, or decades of constant cold war-type crap is inevitable.

It doesn't matter anyways, China is destined to become a global superpower more powerful than the US. Give India a few more decades, they'll be right there too. Asia will rule the 21st century. The West had a good 500 year run.
#15121883
Unthinking Majority wrote:US and China has had a mutually beneficial relationship. Until stupid people have finally woken up and realized what everyone predicted 20 years has now come true and China is poised to overtake the US in economic and political power thanks to western business, and now westerners are freaking out.


Thanks to China, its efforts, its demographics. No-one else. It would make absolutely no sense if a country with 4-5x more people than the US had a smaller economy forever. It should be bigger by virtue of being bigger. Simple as that. It's not destiny it's basic economics, physics, demographics.
#15121898
Igor Antunov wrote:Thanks to China, its efforts, its demographics. No-one else.


Well I think massive Western capital investment and industrial transfer had a little something to do with it. It's also the case that just about every modern technology that allowed China to develop into the gulag capitalist juggernaut that it now is was developed by the West and stolen by the Chinese(or given to them for free). Really, China has done very little aside from gulaging a billion people that it deserves credit for. Western technocrats and Western capital made China, it's one of the most heinous crimes in all of history and hopefully one day soon at least some of these fuckards will be held to account for it.
#15121977
Igor Antunov wrote:Thanks to China, its efforts, its demographics. No-one else. It would make absolutely no sense if a country with 4-5x more people than the US had a smaller economy forever. It should be bigger by virtue of being bigger. Simple as that. It's not destiny it's basic economics, physics, demographics.


The entire western world moved virtually all of its manufacturing to China. That was their choice, they didn't have to do it, nobody put a gun to their head. China has risen off the backs of everything the west has accomplished since the industrial revolution, including stealing a ton of their IP. Go to a Chinese market, half of it is bootleg Western goods. China would still be a shithole without the West.

Obviously China has a big part to play in this too, they deserve a lot of credit, the government is very smart, and yes demographics matter big-time.
#15122015
Imagine freely and willingly giving someone something and then accusing them of stealing it. Also lol at thinking S Korea and Malaysia are 'western'. Try looking up where the world's screens and microchips are manufactured before making blanket statements exposing your ignorance.
#15122019
AFAIK wrote:Imagine freely and willingly giving someone something and then accusing them of stealing it. Also lol at thinking S Korea and Malaysia are 'western'. Try looking up where the world's screens and microchips are manufactured before making blanket statements exposing your ignorance.


Did the Chinese government force you to say that?
#15122044
Unthinking Majority wrote:The entire western world moved virtually all of its manufacturing to China.


Yes, and the pollution that comes with that industry, thus also contributing indirectly to China's current status as the world's biggest renewable energy and environmental innovator.

But you know what it didn't move to china? Its infrastructure, its workforce, its education system. And it sure as hell didn't move china's factories up the value chain. All that had to be built up in China by its indigenous efforts.
#15122080
Igor Antunov wrote:
But you know what it didn't move to china? Its infrastructure, its workforce, its education system. And it sure as hell didn't move china's factories up the value chain. All that had to be built up in China by its indigenous efforts.



The US gave massive tax breaks to corporations to subsidize the relocation of their factories to China. The US taxpayer footed the bill for the gutting of the US industrial base.
#15122117
KurtFF8 wrote:@Unthinking Majority seems to have a lot of anxiety about China being the number 1 superpower rather than the US. As if it will really affect your personal day to day life.

Having a literal fascist regime as the #1 superpower makes me nervous for some reason, call me crazy!
#15122119
Unthinking Majority wrote:Having a literal fascist regime as the #1 superpower makes me nervous for some reason, call me crazy!


What? Naaaah. You have nothing to worry about. I'm sure China will be benevolent towards the rest of the world. Hong Kong? India border disputes? Taiwan? South China Sea disputes and threats with nearly everyone? Censorship and control over the citizenry? Debt trap diplomacy in Africa and Latin American? Meddling in Sri Lankan and Maldives politics? Installing a president/dictator for life?....Nothing to worry about... nothing.

They will be 100x better than the US, even as they engage in the same behaviors as the US. Even as they openly express how they want to be the world's dominant military power. Nothing to be concerned about here. Nothing.
#15122124
Back to the OP...

Those are political officers. The USSR and the old Commie China both had them. I think of it that way more than Fascist.

There is a tacit agreement between the government and the people that china will make their lives better. Clearly that's not happening, so this may be his attempt to exert control.
#15122211
@KurtFF8 Maybe he means this fascist criteria... Granted, this had to do with Trump, but the basics apply. This was from 2016...

1. Hyper-nationalism. This attribute is not confined to fascism, but it is central to all fascism. Trump regularly promises to put America first and extolls the virtues of ordinary Americans (by which he often seems to mean white Americans). His trade policy qualifies as economic nationalism. By the standards of American politics, he is a hyper-nationalist, but by the standards of historical fascism, he is not in the upper echelon. Two Benitos.

2. Militarism. Fascists routinely lionized military institutions and military virtues, and at least rhetorically sought military solutions to political issues. Trump lavishes praise on the troops, as almost all American politicians do these days, and he has proposed (in vague and vulgar terms) a militaristic solution to the problem posed by the Islamic State. He has recommend taking the oil of the Middle East, which presumably would require armed force. But by and large, Trump does not blithely recommend military action and often lambastes his rivals for allegedly incompetent military adventurism. He does not dress his followers in ersatz military garb. Two Benitos.

3. Glorification of violence and readiness to use it in politics. Fascists such as Mussolini thought violence could cleanse and redeem a tarnished nation. They encouraged loyal thugs to rough up, and occasionally kill, people whose politics differed from theirs. Trump scores low here. His rallies, according to many reports, have a frisson of menace to them; he has said things that could be interpreted asinvitations to assassination; his followers often speak longingly of violent acts they wish to see committed against others; he has recommended using torture and killing the families of terrorists. But this still leaves him well short of the standard of Mussolini’s blackshirts or Hitler’s brownshirts, who not only called for political violence but resorted to it extensively. One Benito. - Trump offered to pay legal expenses for people who beat up protesters, so we have to upgrade that to Two Benitos -

4. Fetishization of youth. Fascist movements, even when led by middle-aged men, always extolled the vigor and promise of youth and made special efforts to appeal to young people. Trump, as a septuagenarian, is ill-positioned here. He has no special youth organization to speak of. His most devoted followers are long in the tooth. Zero Benitos.

5. Fetishization of masculinity. Fascists trumpeted what they saw as masculine virtues and supported male authority within family and society, urging women to confine their sphere to home and children (the more of which the better). Trump shares much of this outlook, lauding his own stamina and accusing his femalerival, Hillary Clinton, of lacking it. He mocks men whom he deems deficient in virility. But whereas Mussolini liked to hold up his own mother, devoted to home and hearth, as the feminine ideal, Trump’s vision of the proper woman seems to be a supermodel, more in line with Hugh Hefner’s ideology than Mussolini’s. Nonetheless, on swaggering machismo he gets full marks. Four Benitos.

6. Leader cult. Fascists always looked to a leader who was bold, decisive, manly, uncompromising and cruel when necessary — because the parlous state of the nation required such qualities. Mussolini and Hitler, both veterans of World War I, drew their models of leadership from army officers and worked hard to polish their images as dauntless rulers beholden to no one. They encouraged their followers to idolize them as Il Duce and der Führer. They claimed special insight into the will of the people. Trump, although not a war veteran, fully embraces the cult of the leader. He offers his business experience as evidence of his decisive leadership and is very testy when his business acumen is doubted. He also claims to channel the common man, enjoying a connection all other politicians lack. Four Benitos.

7. Lost-golden-age syndrome. Italian and German fascism shared a strong commitment to the notion of national rebirth. Mussolini and Hitler encouraged their supporters to believe in lost (or stolen) greatness, in a glorious past. That could be long ago, as with the Roman Empire, which Mussolini liked to invoke, or only a couple of decades prior, as with the German Reich that was, according to Hitler, “stabbed in the back” in 1918. Trump makes this appeal to a golden age the centerpiece of his campaign, assuring audiences that only he can “make America great again.” Four Benitos.

8. Self-definition by opposition. Fascists defined themselves as the bulwark against various evils and menaces to the nation. Those included communism, routine democratic politics, the traditional conservatism of industrial and agrarian elites (although both Mussolini and Hitler eventually made peace with these elites), and, especially in the German case, foreigners and minorities. Communism is no longer an issue for American politics. But Trump constantly rails against politics as usual, against political correctness, against elites of all kinds (including, curiously, business elites), and he has made a habit of vilifying minorities. He does not advocate their annihilation, as Hitler did. Three Benitos.

As a political movement, fascism displayed three further important traits:

9. Mass mobilization and mass party. Both Mussolini and Hitler rode to power on tidal waves of support that were organized into new political parties. A new party might fit Trump better, but he has not created one. Instead he has made a venerable one, the Grand Old Party, into his vehicle. He likes to refer to his following as a movement, and since the GOP convention in July has rarely tried to brand himself as a Republican. Many in his party loathe him. Two Benitos.

10. Hierarchical party structure and tendency to purge the disloyal. Fascist movements, like revolutions, ate their children. Anyone who displayed only tepid loyalty to the leader or who showed the potential to outshine the leader risked being purged or killed. So did followers who outlived their usefulness. Trump’s campaign shares this tendency toward purges, but the Republican Party under his leadership does not. And violence plays no role. One Benito.

11. Theatricality. In style and rhetoric, fascism was highly theatrical. Film and audio of Mussolini and Hitler make them seem like clownish buffoons, with their exaggerated gestures, their salutes, their overheated speeches full of absolutes and superlatives. Their rallies evolved into elaborate collective rituals for loyalists. Trump does not strut across stages like a Mussolini, and Nazi-style torchlit parades are out, but his rhetoric fits the fascist style well. He constantly calls things and people the worst or the best ever. His rallies feature repetitive chants. Even his studied frown of disapproval recalls a classic Mussolini pose. Three Benitos. - Another we have to upgrade to Four Benitos since Trump is all theatrical and no substance -


Add all this up, and you get 26 out of a possible 44 Benitos. In the fascist derby, Trump is a loser. Even Spain’s Francisco Franco and Portugal’s António de Oliveira Salazar might score higher. While there is a strong family resemblance, and with some features an uncanny likeness, Trump doesn’t fit the profile so well on those points where the use of violence is required. Projecting an air of menace at rallies, uttering ambiguous calls for assassinations, tacitly endorsing the roughing-up of protesters, urging the killing of terrorists’ families and whatever else Trump does — while shocking by the standards of American politics — fall far short of the genuinely murderous violence endorsed and unleashed by authentic fascists.

In a more nuanced approach, we might weight the various traits of fascism differently, but it’s not obvious how best to do so. Hyper-nationalism, for example, is more consequential than the youth fetish and perhaps ought to be taken more seriously. But it is also less distinctively fascist, being common to many types of political regimes. A longer list, too, might add refinement and complexity. But Trump does not do nuance. A crude, quick and flippant assessment is what he deserves. He is semi-fascist: more fascist than any successful American politician yet, and the most dangerous threat to pluralist democracy in this country in more than a century, but — thank our stars — an amateurish imitation of the real thing.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... -for-that/
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