Technology as latest "solution" to... technology - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

All general discussion about politics that doesn't belong in any of the other forums.

Moderator: PoFo Political Circus Mods

#15121851
QatzelOk wrote:D -

Is this what a person should do if technology is bad? Really?

Have you really gotten far enough ahead in the argument to be in a position to start proposing solutions?

Isn't farming itself "a technology?"

You are going to have to work a lot harder this semester if you want a higher grade than a D -

Ok then go live on wild nuts and berries.

All you do is say tech is bad. You have no proposals. Do you have any other argument other than "technology is bad"? Seriously, i'm interested in the topic, because i agree with many of your arguments. I think we've established that there's lots of bad (and good) things that come with technology. There's nothing original about this argument. It's really easy just to complain, it's really hard to come up with complex solutions that actually work. Go ask any Marxist. They've had 170 years and still nothing.
#15121873
QatzelOk wrote:I'm not hiding my true intentions or thoughts.

You just may be hiding your true motives, like most people do, they may be hiding them even from themselves. It doesn't matter if technology is good or bad, what matters is that you hate it, and you hate it not because you love and care about people and the earth so much and technology hurts them both and makes mankind's extinction inevitable, which is just a cover story, you hate it simply because that's how you are and you feel uncomfortable in this world.
#15121922
Beren wrote:...It doesn't matter if technology is good or bad, ...

Okay, Beren. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is a very counterproductive opinion.

If the badness or goodness of technology doesn't matter to you, then you shouldn't even be debating the subject.

Perhaps you shouldn't even be using words to communicate to other humanoids if you feel this strongly about the non-importance of human survival.

This "callousness" techno-extension that you are deploying as a result of the amputation of normal human relationships... will require many more technological medicines.

And so on.

Unthinking Majority wrote:Ok then go live on wild nuts and berries.

When your parents see your marks this semester, you're going to be grounded for weeks.
#15121940
QatzelOk wrote:
Cooperation is easy in small groups of people you know well.
This is how human "rolled" before language.

On the other hand, language is needed if you want to organize large armies of people who have no relationship with one another other than the job they're gettin' done. And language is especially important if you are programming telephones in order to allow an entire generation of humans to grow up without actually knowing how to empathize with other people.

Language was required for large scale communication among people who have no empathy for one another. How does this in any way help humanity survive?



I'm glad that you're recognizing that we live in large-scale societies these days -- many political people *don't* recognize this, and they prefer to pretend that we still live on family farms in a pre-industrial agrarian past.

You seem to think that 'empathy' is the basis for modern human society, and it's not-necessarily. The *most* important thing is *biological needs*, and at least industrial mass-production *does* enable modern city life for most, but not everyone worldwide can afford it, and that's the primary problem of capitalist social relations.

Of course I'm *not* a nationalist and I don't support nationalist imperialist armies, though such is at least a good example of what can *logistically* be accomplished these days.

Language *facilitates* large-scale organization, which is how capitalist social production is organized in the 21st century. It, along with present-day communications technologies, points to the potential for workers-of-the-world socialism, *without* needing ruling class command hierarchies of any kind, for humaneness for all.

Be careful -- you're starting to sound like a social-psychology *behaviorist* instead of a *political* person.


Unthinking Majority wrote:
It's really easy just to complain, it's really hard to come up with complex solutions that actually work. Go ask any Marxist. They've had 170 years and still nothing.



Well, that's kind of *harsh* and dismissive -- there's been *plenty* in the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries in the way of *class struggle* that's informative and instructive, for the studying.
#15122050
ckaihatsu wrote:You seem to think that 'empathy' is the basis for modern human society...

No.

I seem to think that "empathy" is the basis for human survival.

Along with our other instinctive responses.

Having our empathy removed by ""modern human society" may be the most important pollution that mankind has caused. Or, that mankind has allowed the various mafias to cause.

See, human societies are mafia operations, and the mafia always succeeds based on its lack of empathy. Imagine if the mafias universalized this type or survival ignorance. What a disaster because "lack of empathy" only "works" when it is rare and very well hidden.

That's what has happened. Through various technologies, the mafias have created domesticated humans with fatal empathy levels and fatal levels of fear-based stupidities.

For most of human "history," alcohol has been the technological "solution" to the crappy governance "technology" of the mafias.
#15122059
QatzelOk wrote:
No.

I seem to think that "empathy" is the basis for human survival.

Along with our other instinctive responses.

Having our empathy removed by ""modern human society" may be the most important pollution that mankind has caused. Or, that mankind has allowed the various mafias to cause.

See, human societies are mafia operations, and the mafia always succeeds based on its lack of empathy. Imagine if the mafias universalized this type or survival ignorance. What a disaster because "lack of empathy" only "works" when it is rare and very well hidden.

That's what has happened. Through various technologies, the mafias have created domesticated humans with fatal empathy levels and fatal levels of fear-based stupidities.

For most of human "history," alcohol has been the technological "solution" to the crappy governance "technology" of the mafias.



Okay, I have no contention here.

Would you be interested at all in addressing a socio-political 'way forward' here?
#15122091
QatzelOk wrote:Okay, Beren. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is a very counterproductive opinion.

You must be used to being on a limb here, it may even be part of the QatzelOk experience. However, I mean it doesn't matter to you, while trying to implant your utopia in other people's minds unsuccessfully, if technology is good or bad, you simply want the world furnished for yourself. I wonder though if you honestly misunderstood me, it rather looks like dishonesty is also part of Qatzism and you just grabbed the opportunity and took a small part out of context and turned it against me like a child. You hate technology, or rather civilization and push for your primitivist utopia, regardless if it's a dystopia to the rest. It's just a kind of egocentrism on your part, however, the most you can do for it is fantasising and posting a lot and making virtual ego trips, which is usually perceived by others as trolling, I guess.
#15122100
Beren wrote:...while trying to implant your utopia in other people's minds...

ckaihatsu wrote:Would you be interested at all in addressing a socio-political 'way forward' here?

So while Beren seems to see some kind of "utopia" being proposed here, ckaihatsu notices that there have been no suggestions of a way forward, no "utopia" has been proposed.

So what you are really doing, Beren, is trying to disguise your fear of change as some kind of age-olde wisdom. I haven't proposed any kind of utopia, I have just positited that technologies are not "solutions" for any real problems, but are solutions for the problems caused by previous technologies.

And I have asked posters to join me in exploring the topic.

Most media consumers are used to the constant stream of utopias that are presented in commercial advertising: sugarless gum utopias, SUV utopias, fabric softener utopias. So I see why you are "fighting" against this phenomenon. But it's NOT happening here right now.

Try to live more in the moment, rather than as a chapter of some kind of "normal" life full of delayed gratification and lies.
#15122104
QatzelOk wrote:I haven't proposed any kind of utopia

As I've already said you haven't proposed it explicitly but it's there in your posts implicitly and anyone familiar with them enough could distill it from them. It's not my fault if someone can't.
#15122107
Beren wrote:As I've already said you haven't proposed it explicitly but it's there in your posts implicitly and anyone familiar with them enough could distill it from them. It's not my fault if someone can't.

Another way of saying "distilling from your posts" is to say "understanding the logic."

If people "understand the logic" and "come to conclusions," that is actually a good thing, Beren.

Being muddled and confused isn't as great as you make it out to be.
#15122115
ckaihatsu wrote:
Would you be interested at all in addressing a socio-political 'way forward' here?



QatzelOk wrote:
So while Beren seems to see some kind of "utopia" being proposed here, ckaihatsu notices that there have been no suggestions of a way forward, no "utopia" has been proposed.



Right -- a 'way forward' is synonymous with *politics*, and you have none.

You have a single, crude 'negative' issue, that of opposing all technology because it has a 'dark' side of being misused and abused at times.

This critique is *limited*, and although I've seen some glimmers of broader left-wing expressions from you, you don't espouse any leftism on any consistent basis, preferring to stick to your single-issue critique instead.

You implicitly ignore all of the *benefits* that technology -- particularly *consumer* technology -- has brought to consumers in the past few decades, enabled by industrialization and automation processes in the 20th century.

Finally your use of the term 'utopia' as an *epithet* is misplaced:



The fact is, that civilisation requires slaves. The Greeks were quite right there. Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure, and demoralising. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the future of the world depends. And when scientific men are no longer called upon to go down to a depressing East End and distribute bad cocoa and worse blankets to starving people, they will have delightful leisure in which to devise wonderful and marvellous things for their own joy and the joy of everyone else. There will be great storages of force for every city, and for every house if required, and this force man will convert into heat, light, or motion, according to his needs. Is this Utopian? A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail. Progress is the realisation of Utopias.



https://www.marxists.org/reference/arch ... /soul-man/
#15122300
ckaihatsu wrote:Right -- a 'way forward' is synonymous with *politics*, and you have none.

Not only me - humanity currently has no way forward, other than a cluster of dead-ends that were sold to us by technology salesmen through the ages, and continue to be sold to us, against all survival logic.

Obviously, THE solution to technology killing us all, hasn't been resolved yet. And we probably won't resolve it in this thread.

But by talking about it, at least we further people's understanding of a very serious meta-problem that humanity is facing. This problem is outlined in the link below.

ABC Auto-Industry

Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture and contemplation become almost impossible.


Tranlated, this means that if the great majority of humans don't have their lives crushed by monotony (and by a lack of opportunity for contemplation), the tiny elite won't be able to fly over the world attending "climate change" workshops and Balinese yoga workshops. ("contemplation")

Technology is a vote for this, really? And slavery-justification is one of our most important technologies?
#15122334
QatzelOk wrote:
Not only me - humanity currently has no way forward, other than a cluster of dead-ends that were sold to us by technology salesmen through the ages, and continue to be sold to us, against all survival logic.

Obviously, THE solution to technology killing us all, hasn't been resolved yet. And we probably won't resolve it in this thread.

But by talking about it, at least we further people's understanding of a very serious meta-problem that humanity is facing. This problem is outlined in the link below.

ABC Auto-Industry



*Which* technology / technologies are 'killing us all' -- ?

Do you have *any* technical approaches to addressing these technological problems?

I appreciate that you're implicating *capitalism*, but you may want to give a fuller *treatment* of this politics in particular.

I'm not going to watch the video right away. You may want to *describe* what you're indicating by 'meta-problem'.


---



Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture and contemplation become almost impossible.



QatzelOk wrote:
Tranlated, this means that if the great majority of humans don't have their lives crushed by monotony (and by a lack of opportunity for contemplation), the tiny elite won't be able to fly over the world attending "climate change" workshops and Balinese yoga workshops. ("contemplation")

Technology is a vote for this, really? And slavery-justification is one of our most important technologies?



Yes, that's a solid critique of the *Democrat*- / liberal-type cultural industry and culture / lifestyle, which uses personal lifestylism as a personal / social 'activity', to stay insular and to allow the status quo capitalist political economy to stay status quo.

I'm not saying that present-day technological culture under capitalism, or even the *avenues* of technology that have been developed and are commonplace, are necessarily the *best* avenues, because existing technology only reflects the consumer culture of *market demand*, and *not* the needs and wants of the entire human population, unfortunately.


[1] History, Macro Micro -- Precision

Spoiler: show
Image



Yes, you're correct to indicate that self-awareness / self-actualization is an important task for the individual. I myself would also add 'worldliness' to the list, as I indicate in my 'Worldview' diagram, and also several of my diagrams include 'Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs', including this one:


Worldview Diagram

Spoiler: show
Image



History, Macro-Micro -- Political (Cognitive) Dissonance

Spoiler: show
Image



---


You're taking that quote out-of-context -- here's the whole thing:



The fact is, that civilisation requires slaves. The Greeks were quite right there. Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure, and demoralising. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the future of the world depends. And when scientific men are no longer called upon to go down to a depressing East End and distribute bad cocoa and worse blankets to starving people, they will have delightful leisure in which to devise wonderful and marvellous things for their own joy and the joy of everyone else. There will be great storages of force for every city, and for every house if required, and this force man will convert into heat, light, or motion, according to his needs. Is this Utopian? A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth even glancing at, for it leaves out the one country at which Humanity is always landing. And when Humanity lands there, it looks out, and, seeing a better country, sets sail. Progress is the realisation of Utopias.



https://www.marxists.org/reference/arch ... /soul-man/
#15122383
QatzelOk wrote:Obviously, THE solution to technology killing us all, hasn't been resolved yet. And we probably won't resolve it in this thread.

You actually don't seem to go anywhere. ckaihatsu may be so reluctant, by the way, because he has high hopes for great VR porn and sex robots. Maybe you should try to convince him that having sex with domestic animals is so much better and healthier! You can explain it so convincingly! :excited:
#15122392
Beren wrote:
You actually don't seem to go anywhere. ckaihatsu may be so reluctant, by the way, because he has high hopes for great VR porn and sex robots. Maybe you should try to convince him that having sex with domestic animals is so much better and healthier! You can explain it so convincingly! :excited:



I found some *Marxian* porn over at this other thread:



the communal interest of all individuals who have intercourse with one another.



viewtopic.php?p=15121753#p15121753



= D
#15122433
Beren wrote:You actually don't seem to go anywhere. ckaihatsu may be so reluctant, by the way, because he has high hopes for great VR porn and sex robots. Maybe you should try to convince him that having sex with domestic animals is so much better and healthier! You can explain it so convincingly! :excited:

Beastiality and Homosexuality are the most "organic" controls for overly-acute sexual regulation because they have far fewer side effects than pornography, robot sex, or screwing the entire world with usury.

That I need to explain this to you is because of all the propaganda technology we've all absorbed without questionning it.
#15122445
QatzelOk wrote:Beastiality and Homosexuality are the most "organic" controls for overly-acute sexual regulation because they have far fewer side effects than pornography, robot sex, or screwing the entire world with usury.

That I need to explain this to you is because of all the propaganda technology we've all absorbed without questionning it.

Sure, you must be into beastiality and homosexuality because they both make the world better and that's why everyone should embrace them too. :lol:
#15122453
Beren wrote:Sure, you must be into beastiality and homosexuality because they both make the world better and that's why everyone should embrace them too. :lol:

Obviously, you've been hit with Christian technology, state sexual regulation technology, mass media feminism, and a host of other unnatural behavioral modifications that were forced on you by slave-seeking states (another technology).

But this is a thread to find solutions (you have repeatedly asked for them) and not to mock the search for truth with ninnyish tsking.
  • 1
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 16

Since home ownership has been brought up, how doe[…]

Hippy dippy nonsense. It's a knee-jerk reaction, […]

https://twitter.com/OVargas52/status/1318212096295[…]

Police if we don't defund them, and people them[…]