[ckaihatsu]

There are few paths that don't involve violence. One of them is Republicans doing a quickie impeachment, as unlikely as that sounds.

Trump has a paramilitary force now, who would oppose them? The military won't. You expecting the DC police to try and remove him by force?

This will get weird fast. Dems are already working on arguments to present to the courts. But Trump hasn't shown much respect for law, so that's a slim hope.

Okay, got it -- caught-up now, thanks.

You're closer to the bourgeois machinations than I am, but, yes, the threat concerns *everyone*, as ever.

[Local Localist]

https://theweek.com/speedreads/939191/t ... on-results

[ckaihatsu]

Trump refuses to commit to a peaceful transition of power after the election: "Well we're gonna have to see what happens."

What's his power base?

He's already been outright *repudiated* by the military in his chain-of-command -- they rightly see him as being reckless and dictatorial. What about this reality would change once the election rolls around?

[late]

What's his power base?

He's already been outright *repudiated* by the military in his chain-of-command -- they rightly see him as being reckless and dictatorial. What about this reality would change once the election rolls around?

The military won't get involved.

[ckaihatsu]

The military won't get involved.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying -- how can a president pull off a *coup* without the support of the military?

[Local Localist]

What's his power base?

He's already been outright *repudiated* by the military in his chain-of-command -- they rightly see him as being reckless and dictatorial. What about this reality would change once the election rolls around?

Given the nature of the US military's constituents, I think it could be a very hard ask to mobilise them in active opposition to the Trump administration in the event of a self-coup.

[ckaihatsu]

Given the nature of the US military's constituents, I think it could be a very hard ask to mobilise them in active opposition to the Trump administration in the event of a self-coup.

So you're speculating that the military would swing around to *support* a Trump coup?

Who are the U.S. military's 'constituents' here?

[Local Localist]

So you're speculating that the military would swing around to *support* a Trump coup?

Who are the U.S. military's 'constituents' here?

At first, the military would take the official position that the coup is illegal. At first, all Democrat-held states and institutions would take the position that the coup is illegal. At first, the media would take the position that the coup is illegal. Unless some kind of organised [militaristic] resistance manages to oust the Trump administration in the months after the election, nothing will stop them, that I can see. I don't think the military will act against the government: it's constituents are primarily Euro-American men from Republican-voting states. At first, domestic operations by the military and police would be confined to 'keeping the peace'. As it dawns on everyone that the administration is there to stay, however, these operations would gradually morph into errands on behalf of the government. I'm not saying this will happen, but I think it is very likely if Biden wins the election.

[ckaihatsu]

When it comes to mobilizing the police and National Guard to beat and arrest protesters, Democratic governors and mayors are vicious. But when it comes to opposing Trump, the Democrats are suddenly powerless.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/0 ... s-s25.html

[ckaihatsu]

As Trump refuses to commit to a peaceful transition, Pentagon stresses it will play no role in the election

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/politics ... index.html

[Local Localist]

Well, Donald Trump specifically called on the 'Proud Boys' to 'deal with' Antifa in the presidential debate. This is clearly the US equivalent of the Sturmabteilung, and I'm sure we'll see them used as brown shirts when the election results are contested.

[Igor Antunov]

The bulk of US active armed forces are continental based and comprise the National Guard, which is state based reserve militia controlled by the feds correct? The Marines and regular army are all geared for expeditionary operations, and the fleets can't really provide much support to most states. The air-force is scattered all over the country.

Just like what Yugoslavia had prior to the civil war there, but on a much larger scale. The reserve forces meant to defend each constituent state in the event of an invasion were based in their states and chiefly comprised of locals. Many of these national guard garrisons if called up initially would then balkanize by State or even across state partisan lines depending on makeup of each garrison and simply stop following orders from the federal government, especially if Governors got involved in the federal shit show, and if the central military command (in this case within the US army) which the defunct federal government is supposed to lead as a whole doesn't act quickly or decisively enough from the start.

Then throw in private militias, armed local citizens donning their weapons and taking over towns and well...Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again any time soon.

Setting the stage:

[wat0n]

My understanding is that all National Guards combined amount to some 500k soldiers. The rest amount to 1M.

And the National Guards are comprised of mainly reservists, not professional soldiers...

[Unthinking Majority]

Military members are typically conservative. They and the national guard would side with Trump if anything if shit hit the fan, and obey his orders as commander in chief. At least until the Jan. transition date if he loses. After that, who knows.

[Unthinking Majority]

As Trump refuses to commit to a peaceful transition, Pentagon stresses it will play no role in the election

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/politics ... index.html

If Trump refused to obey the law and leave power if he loses, I would think the FBI would be the ones to remove him by enforcing the law?

[ckaihatsu]

Workers and young people must wake up to the gravity of the political situation. They must break free of the stranglehold of the Democratic Party, which fears the mobilization of popular opposition to capitalism much more than it fears the imposition of a fascistic dictatorship under Trump.

The American ruling class has forfeited its right to rule. The only thing that people should be thinking about after Tuesday night is how to put an end to this dysfunctional system.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/0 ... a-s30.html

[Oxymoron]

If Trump refused to obey the law and leave power if he loses, I would think the FBI would be the ones to remove him by enforcing the law?

If the election is decided by Mail in voting I suspect he could order them to investigate as fraud. In this case the Federal agencies would have to either not follow a direct order, or investigate. I suspect also the Supreme court might support Trump.

[ckaihatsu]

September 28, 2020 | revcom.us

THIS IS THE SITUATION, THESE ARE THE STAKES.

TRUMP IS DETERMINED, AND HAS A STRATEGY, TO STAY IN POWER, AND HAMMER INTO PLACE HIS FASCIST PROGRAM—MURDEROUSLY ENFORCING INJUSTICE, CRUSHING BASIC RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES, ACCELERATING THE DESTRUCTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT AND HEIGHTENING THE DANGER OF NUCLEAR ANNIHILATION—NO MATTER HOW PEOPLE VOTE. Trump is already stealing the election, he has a plan in place to use key institutions, including the Supreme Court, and violent thugs, in and out of uniform, to keep his regime in power.

https://revcom.us/a/667/this-is-the-sit ... es-en.html

[Deutschmania]

As Trump refuses to commit to a peaceful transition, Pentagon stresses it will play no role in the election

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/politics ... index.html

Then they have allowed for a situation to potentially develope in which there will be armed resistance , such as existed within Axis controlled Europe . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_(World_War_II) And in spite of what cocky conservatives might be inclined to think , there already is a basis for just such an uprising . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Rifle_Association I just fear that this hypothetical second Civil War shall prove to be more like Star Wars than the prior Civil War , given the space age technology . https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Alliance_to_Restore_the_Republic , https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-us-military-already-has-laser-weapons-can-we-add-them-f-35s-166812 , https://robots.net/robotics/military-robots/

That's what any would be rebels would be up against .

[ckaihatsu]

Then they have allowed for a situation to potentially develope in which there will be armed resistance , such as existed within Axis controlled Europe . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance_to_Nazism , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquis_(World_War_II) And in spite of what cocky conservatives might be inclined to think , there already is a basis for just such an uprising . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Rifle_Association I just fear that this hypothetical second Civil War shall prove to be more like Star Wars than the prior Civil War , given the space age technology . https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Alliance_to_Restore_the_Republic , https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-us-military-already-has-laser-weapons-can-we-add-them-f-35s-166812 , https://robots.net/robotics/military-robots/ JGNopwFcz3A v3OPUh2gOdo 0M4JMhXNNOg That's what any would be rebels would be up against .

The *empirical*, undeniable conflict is based in the schism in the Democratic Party, between the establishment, Trump-apologist Democrats, and the BLM-type protest movement against police brutality, on the basis of race (black empowerment).

This is why *civil war* doesn't sound so far-fetched, because this country had a Civil Rights Movement in the 20th century that built on the social legacy of the Civil War, meaning more integration of blacks and other social minorities into regular civil society.

What's happening now is that *reaction* has become *institutionalized*, with the 1000+ killings by police every year in the U.S., which may as well be hangings / lynchings, and the killings are disproportionately against black people, making them *racist* killings.

So whatever's on the U.S. social / political agenda, if anything, is going to look *weak*, indefinitely, compared to this unaddressed reality of government killer cops. Every time there's an additional killing *everyone's* going to be paying attention, and the corporate 'mainstream' media is actually on the side of anti-racist progress on this one, so at least everyone will see the unaddressed situation *fester* like an open wound, for *decades* to come, if need be, until this matter is taken care of.

I support abolishing police departments, in order to *guarantee* the preservation of human life -- cops who aren't on the streets are no longer potential killer cops.