What is Fascism - Page 12 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

What is Fascism?

Anti-Socialist Bulwork to protect capitalism
22
30%
Institutional totalitarian
24
32%
Fanaticism
2
3%
Mercantilism
No votes
0%
Socialism
7
9%
Other (please elaborate)
19
26%
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123936
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Julian658

If you cannot show that fascists give workers the means of production m then you cannot show that fascism is the same as socialism.

All your comments about communism and racism are off topic.


I am not saying fascism and communism are identical POD. One is from the right, the other from the left. However, they share many principles.

Will you condemn communism as an authoritarian system? Yes or no?
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123939
Pants-of-dog wrote:That is another trait of fascists: they are scared of communists.

POD
Mostly everybody is scared of communism. But, in your book anyone that is not a commie is a fascist. :lol: :lol: You are so Antifa!
By late
#15123940
Julian658 wrote:
POD
Mostly everybody is scared of communism.



The Soviet Union is gone. China is a market economy now. Granted, it has an authoritarian bureaucracy headed by Xi, but that's not communism.

So... what communism?
By Pants-of-dog
#15123941
See, communism is so scary and such a threat right now that we need to let the cops do whatever they want. And let the far right take over.
By Rich
#15123951
Pants-of-dog wrote:The point that you seem to not understand is that the communists fought and killed fascists. In fact, it was arguably the communists that saved the world from fascism.

The world didn't need saving from fascism.

Arguably the Communists were fascists themselves, but you don't need to be a fan of Mussolini's fascism to see it was hardly a threat to humanity. The world needed to be saved from the threat of domination by both German Naziism and Soviet Communism. Nazi Germany only got to be such a serious threat because of its alliance with Soviet Russia and because the other Liberal democracies including the USA and Switzerland, cowardly failed to stand up and fight and left it to the British empire and Commonwealth and the French Empire to fight alone.

I mean don't get me wrong I'm not lacking a sense of humour. :lol: The Soviet Nazi pact was one of the funniest events in history. It was a double betrayal. It was a betrayal by Nazi Germany of their allies Fascist Italy, Showa Japan and the regimes of Hungry and Romania. It was betrayal of the Finns and it was betrayal of all the Nazis conservative friends through out the western democracies.

But it was also a betrayal by the Soviet Union of its client Communist parties in Poland France, Belgium and other countries that were the target of Nazi German aggression. Prior to June 1941, the Communist parties of Nazi occupied Europe were under orders to effectively collaborate with the Nazi occupiers. It was also a betrayal of all the Soviets sympathisers and fellow travellers on the left, particularly all those that had worked in Popular Fronts with the Moscow directed Communist parties.

The 1939 - 41 was no war against fascism. Italy and Japan remained at peace. They only entered the war because they thought Germany was about to win. They only entered the war to get a seat at the peace table. Italy entered the war because it thought France was about to surrender and Japan entered the war because it thought the Soviet Union was about to collapse.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123955
late wrote:The Soviet Union is gone. China is a market economy now. Granted, it has an authoritarian bureaucracy headed by Xi, but that's not communism.

So... what communism?


POD and a few other comrades in the forum.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123956
Pants-of-dog wrote:See, communism is so scary and such a threat right now that we need to let the cops do whatever they want. And let the far right take over.

POD
Both fascism and communism are EVIL. This is not a difficult concept
Are you willing to condemn the evil of communism?
By Pants-of-dog
#15123977
Julian658 wrote:POD and a few other comrades in the forum.


So, when you say that everyone is scared of communism, you mean that they are scared of me and some other people on PoFo?

This theme of “yeah, but aren’t you scared of the commies?” seems to recur in discussions of the rise of the far right.
By late
#15123979
Julian658 wrote:

Both fascism and communism are EVIL. This is not a difficult concept
Are you willing to condemn the evil of communism?



Again, what communism.

You know, in the real world?
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123994
late wrote:Again, what communism.

You know, in the real world?


OK. You are intrigued by this. Communism is the last stage of marxism. It is a stateless system where there is no currency and everything is available to all. This Disneyland Utopia never existed. The PODs of the world think they can get there by imposing a dictatorship of the proletariat on people like you and me. Yes, I said dictatorship, that is how it works. In this system you have to give up your private property and become a socialist. And I mean socialist in the classic sense.

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs" (German: Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen).

BTW, communism is a western concept and it happens to be the only western concept accepted by these folks
User avatar
By Julian658
#15123995
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, when you say that everyone is scared of communism, you mean that they are scared of me and some other people on PoFo?

This theme of “yeah, but aren’t you scared of the commies?” seems to recur in discussions of the rise of the far right.

POD
Communism is wonderful. It is a Disneyland fairy tale.
The problem is the people that push their ideology on others. They have no conscience as they are saturated of righteousness.

Righteousness definition: See POD
#15124011
@Julian658 is once again trying to take this thread off topic.

Also, that quote of Marx is actually from the Bible.

Well, I think I have shown that the US is currently trending towards fascism.

You may now go back to telling each other about how scary the left is.
#15124024
Pants-of-dog wrote:All of this is off topic. And I see that you agree that the right has state support while the left does not, so even if we were to decide to belive in the Antifa bogeyman, it wiuld still not be as great a threat as this proto-fascism.

When you don't want to answer claims you simply label it "off-topic". It's not off-topic, I was responding directly to one of your claims.

Yes there is an alt-right admin in the White House, and ya that's pretty scary. But I just told you that in cities like Portland and Seattle the far-left has state support from far-left city governments. You also don't need government support to grab a torch and head into the streets at night to burn cars and buildings and loot businesses etc, which has been happening all over the US. That's not a "boogeyman", these are real events that are happening.

It's pretty clear that both the far-right and far-left are a problem in the US, that is just a fact. There's a decent chance for violence from both sides after the election depending on how that plays out. I'm not interested in keeping score on which side might be worse, if that makes you feel better go right ahead.

Imagine I answer these questions as you would: with the uncritical acceptance of the average conservative. Please note that this would still make my arguments just as correct.

Again you refuse to answer the questions, because your answers would expose your biased and hypocritical double-standards. I didn't expect you would answer them. Thank you for proving my point.
By Pants-of-dog
#15124041
Unthinking Majority wrote:When you don't want to answer claims you simply label it "off-topic". It's not off-topic, I was responding directly to one of your claims.

Yes there is an alt-right admin in the White House, and ya that's pretty scary. But I just told you that in cities like Portland and Seattle the far-left has state support from far-left city governments. You also don't need government support to grab a torch and head into the streets at night to burn cars and buildings and loot businesses etc, which has been happening all over the US. That's not a "boogeyman", these are real events that are happening.

It's pretty clear that both the far-right and far-left are a problem in the US, that is just a fact. There's a decent chance for violence from both sides after the election depending on how that plays out. I'm not interested in keeping score on which side might be worse, if that makes you feel better go right ahead.

Again you refuse to answer the questions, because your answers would expose your biased and hypocritical double-standards. I didn't expect you would answer them. Thank you for proving my point.


Feel free to start a thread about how different US governments are supporting militant Marxism. You already agreed with my salient point. To try and make a false equivalence about the left is irrelevant even if it is true.

Like I said, please continue telling each other how scary the left is in a thread about fascism.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15124064
@Julian658 We are not discussing Communism, however. We are discussing Fascism. You are off-topic and trying to distract from this topic with a "Whataboutism". :knife:


Start up your own thread on Communism. I'm not talking about it.


@Rich just wants to rewrite history to fit a narrative that he made up in his head, firmly seated under a foil hat. Surely it must be connected to Cultural Marxism, too. :roll:
#15124071
Pants-of-dog wrote:Feel free to start a thread about how different US governments are supporting militant Marxism. You already agreed with my salient point. To try and make a false equivalence about the left is irrelevant even if it is true.

Like I said, please continue telling each other how scary the left is in a thread about fascism.

I'm not trying to score ideological points. That's what you're trying to do. i'm not trying to bash the left, I have no problem with the left, I do have a problem with the far left especially extremists just as I have issues with the far right. My original point was that we have the far right and far left going increasingly nutters, and that's not good. That's it. You get defensive whenever I criticize the far-left. Obviously you sympathize with them.

Anyways, next discussion...
#15124072
So far a summary of this thread:

Person 1: Fascists are bad! Trump is fascist and bad!

Unthinking_Majority: I agree, fascism is bad and Trump is dangerous. The rise of the far right and far left in the US is worrisome.

Person 1: No shut up about the far-left, off-topic! You can't talk about them here! Stop making a false equivalence! How dare you! We defend the far-left here, only room for far-right hating and nothing else! Trump bad!

Unthinking_Majority: Huh?
By late
#15124073
Julian658 wrote:
OK. You are intrigued by this.



Not in the slightest.

I am a policy guy. It's all just nuts and bolts. You see a threat, you respond. You keeping up?

There is no threat. The Soviet are gone, China has a market economy. Both are still problems, but they ain't commie.

What I was hinting at is you should leave the fantasy behind.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124077
late wrote:Not in the slightest.

I am a policy guy. It's all just nuts and bolts. You see a threat, you respond. You keeping up?

There is no threat. The Soviet are gone, China has a market economy. Both are still problems, but they ain't commie.

What I was hinting at is you should leave the fantasy behind.


I agree! Good point! I should not give that much credence to the rhetoric of the few communists in the forum. The Antifa commies are just a bunch of privileged kids that have become nihilistic.

However, America has started to decline and heading into unknown territory. The debate last night was a full of vulgarity and BS. The discourse of American politics is directed at mediocrity. Every line is a carefully planned cliché design to pander to the fools. The 2020 election is a train to nowhere.
Last edited by Julian658 on 01 Oct 2020 03:57, edited 1 time in total.
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