What is Fascism - Page 13 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

What is Fascism?

Anti-Socialist Bulwork to protect capitalism
22
30%
Institutional totalitarian
24
32%
Fanaticism
2
3%
Mercantilism
No votes
0%
Socialism
7
9%
Other (please elaborate)
19
26%
User avatar
By Godstud
#15124078
Julian658 wrote:The debate last night was a full of vulgarity and BS.
Yes, Trump was vulgar, and lies perpetually. Bigen was remarkably reserved given the rude ass he had to debate.

The discourse of American politics is directed at mediocrity.
It's directed at the people, as it's supposed to be. That is the point of these televised debates.

The 2020 election is a train to nowhere.
The Trump train is the crazy train, however.
By Pants-of-dog
#15124080
    As Trump Equivocates on White Supremacy, the FBI Warns of Right-Wing Terror
    An intelligence report dated the day of the presidential debate predicts a “violent extremist threat” posed by a far-right militia.
    By Ken Klippenstein

    Asked at yesterday’s presidential debate if he would condemn white supremacist violence by groups like the Proud Boys, President Trump was defiant, remarking: “Almost everything I see is from the left-wing, not the right-wing.” But that very same day, the FBI issued an intelligence report warning of an imminent “violent extremist threat” posed by a far-right militia that includes white supremacists—identifying the current election period up to the 2021 inauguration as a “potential flashpoint.”

    The report, obtained exclusively by The Nation and titled “Boogaloo Adherents Likely Increasing Anti-Government Violent Rhetoric and Activities, Increasing Domestic Violent Extremist Threat in the FBI Dallas Area of Responsibility,” warns of the threat posed by the far-right militia group known as the “Boogaloos.” Marked FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY and LAW ENFORCEMENT SENSITIVE, the document was prepared by the FBI’s Dallas Field Office and is dated September 29, 2020. It draws on a wide array of intelligence sources, making specific mention of human sources—suggesting that the Bureau may have confidential informants within the group. The document points to several catalysts for the rise in the group’s membership, including resentment over perceived government overreach embodied by the Covid-19 shutdown and the presidential election.

    The document states,
      FBI Dallas Field Office judges in the next three months, continuing up to the January 2021 inauguration with the presidential elections acting as a potential flashpoint, boogaloo adherents likely will expand influence within the FBI Dallas AOR [Area of Responsibility] due to the presence of existing anti-government or anti-authority violent extremists, the sentiment of perceived government overreach, heightened tensions due to COVID-19-related state and local restrictions, and violence or criminal activity at lawful protests as a result of the death of an African American USPER [US person] in Minneapolis, factors that led to violence at otherwise peaceful and lawful protests in the FBI Dallas AOR.

    The word “Boogaloo” refers to a second American Civil War, which the loosely organized, fiercely anti-government group has declared its intention to bring about. Its members often wear an outfit of military fatigues and a Hawaiian shirt. While the Boogaloos clearly contain white supremacist elements—many members believe the coming civil war will be a race war—their main focus is strident opposition to government.

    While skepticism of government is undoubtedly a common sentiment, the Boogaloos have distinguished themselves by carrying out significant acts of violence in furtherance of this belief. For example, this summer, one Boogaloo, Steven Carrillo, is alleged to have killed two law enforcement officers in Northern California. True to the group’s desire to hasten the next civil war, Carrilllo is alleged to have killed the law enforcement officers at an otherwise peaceful demonstration with a silenced machine gun, in hopes of provoking retaliation from the police against the demonstrators. Later in September, two other Boogaloo members were arrested and charged with providing material support to Hamas. The two men are alleged to have told an FBI informant posing as a Hamas member that they shared a common ideology in opposing the US government, and offered to act as mercenaries.

    Two human sources are identified as being central to the judgments in the intelligence assessment. One of the sources has reported various threats since 2017, and some of the information reported has since been corroborated. The report mentions one source, claiming to have “direct access” to the Boogaloos, quoting a heavily armed member’s intentions to “hunt” anti-fascist anarchists and shoot any looters. The language echoes that of President Trump, who, following this summer’s civil unrest, tweeted, “When the looting starts, the shooting starts.” As The Nation reported in June, the same day that Trump announced his intention to designate “Antifa” a terrorist group, the FBI’s Washington Field Office was unable to find any evidence of antifa involvement in the violence. However, in July, The Nation reported that the US intelligence community was tracking a “potential threat to law enforcement” from the Boogaloos. While antifa groups have engaged in acts of property destruction and sometimes violence, a recent study published by the Center for Strategic and International Studies found that anti-fascist groups have not been involved in a single murder in the United States in the past 25 years.

    The intelligence report concludes by citing concerns of the Boogaloos’ “increased ‘patrolling’ or attendance at events” amenable to their cause. You might say those orders are coming from the top—at the presidential debate last night, President Trump called for his supporters to patrol polling places. “I’m urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully because that’s what has to happen,” Trump said.

https://www.thenation.com/article/polit ... -boogaloo/

So we see that the far right is mobilising for another civil war and shooting cops. and they seem to be echoing the very words of the POTUS.

Meanwhile, antifa has not killed anyone, but people still fear them just as much they fear the right.

It is interesting how the right has made it a bad thing to openly oppose fascism, and sees it as equivalent to things like shooting cops.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124083
Godstud wrote:Yes, Trump was vulgar, and lies perpetually. Bigen was remarkably reserved given the rude ass he had to debate.

It's directed at the people, as it's supposed to be. That is the point of these televised debates.

The Trump train is the crazy train, however.

Biden used many insulting remarks too. I am surprised that you think the candidates are doing OK. All they do is pander to interest groups. It is quite painful to watch either side.

In any event I think Biden won the debate as Trump was angry all the time and has no capacity to deal with such a mediocre opponent. Biden did not have any moments of fogginess.

Watch the Nixon Kennedy debate. That was when men running for office acted like gentlemen and had some degree of intelligence. We are going downhill!
By Patrickov
#15124086
Julian658 wrote:Biden used many insulting remarks too. I am surprised that you think the candidates are doing OK. All they do is pander to interest groups. It is quite painful to watch either side...


The American society, and indeed the entire world, have educated their people to endorse behaviour like this.

And seriously with the growth of human size, needs and greed, it is pretty hard to expect most people be as civilized as it used to be.
#15124089
Anti-intellectualism is also a sign of fascists. Just sayin’.

And the Republicans have been appealing to this anti-intellectual sentiment since (at least) Bush Jr. In this respect, Trump was the inevitable next step.
By Sivad
#15124107
Pants-of-dog wrote:Anti-intellectualism is also a sign of fascists.


Except there is no "anti-intellectualism". There's anti-babbittry, people do hate corrupt clerks that tell crazy fucking lies to advance an agenda of elitist domination, but there's nothing wrong with that. Christ despised the Pharisees and Benda despised the treasonous clerks of his day, all the best people have always reviled the babbitt because the babbitt is one of the lowest forms of life there is.

Image
By late
#15124116
Julian658 wrote:
I agree! Good point! I should not give that much credence to the rhetoric of the few communists in the forum.

The Antifa commies are just a bunch of privileged kids that have become nihilistic.

However, America has started to decline and heading into unknown territory. The debate last night was a full of vulgarity and BS. The discourse of American politics is directed at mediocrity. Every line is a carefully planned cliché design to pander to the fools. The 2020 election is a train to nowhere.



Thanks

Antifa are usually closer to anarchists. Because they don't have the organisational structure you expect in politics, they are always a movement, not a party. IOW, ideologically and structurally, they won't seek power. Which means not only are they not commies, they aren't much of anything beyond anti-fascist. If they are, they are not Antifa.

Biden and most of the current Dems aren't much, but they are still millions of times better than Trump and the Republican politicians that enable his insanity.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124125
late wrote:Thanks

Antifa are usually closer to anarchists. Because they don't have the organisational structure you expect in politics, they are always a movement, not a party. IOW, ideologically and structurally, they won't seek power. Which means not only are they not commies, they aren't much of anything beyond anti-fascist. If they are, they are not Antifa.

Biden and most of the current Dems aren't much, but they are still millions of times better than Trump and the Republican politicians that enable his insanity.

I do not disagree, Trump is a scoundrel.
Many Dems are trying to go as far left as possible. However, Biden (another lightweight) has always been right of center).

We need a new paradigm. The USA has reached its peak and it seems we are now going downhill. People that could be great candidates are ignored because they are intellectuals. This is particularly bad on the left and the extreme right.
By late
#15124134
Julian658 wrote:
Many Dems are trying to go as far left as possible.


We need a new paradigm.



AOC would be a centrist in most of Europe. There are no Dems that have gone "as Left as possible". That's ridiculous.

Congress just passed a bill that will keep the lights on. For a few weeks... Trumps failure on the campaign trail means Republicans will pass some sort of relief bill, but it's not hard to see they hate the idea of being nice to anyone that isn't rich. New paradigm? I'd be happy if Republicans rejoined the civilised world.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124135
late wrote:AOC would be a centrist in most of Europe. There are no Dems that have gone "as Left as possible". That's ridiculous.

Congress just passed a bill that will keep the lights on. For a few weeks... Trumps failure on the campaign trail means Republicans will pass some sort of relief bill, but it's not hard to see they hate the idea of being nice to anyone that isn't rich. New paradigm? I'd be happy if Republicans rejoined the civilised world.


Leaving aside most emotional issues and class warfare. A true conservative believes in a small government, self discipline, hard work, and individuality. A true liberal believes the government should create a system to hold up those that fall behind. The answer is in the middle.

AOC is a created figure. She was recruited for the position and she was a hit. She is charismatic, good looking, and smart, the perfect candidate for her district. She is an effective messenger for her handlers. However, at the end of the day she is also a lightweight. Her new green deal is Disneyland. The solution for global warming is Thorium Power plants. This is cheap, safe and with ZERO carbon production. However, the left will never go there because they are not that smart or have another agenda driven by emotion. Emotion drives most of our reasoning.

Image
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124136
Pants-of-dog wrote:Anti-intellectualism is also a sign of fascists. Just sayin’.

And the Republicans have been appealing to this anti-intellectual sentiment since (at least) Bush Jr. In this respect, Trump was the inevitable next step.

Anyone in the far right or far left is an anti-intellectual.
As I told you a million times we at least have a NO-GO zone in the extreme right which is white nationalism. On the extreme left there is no such thing as a NO-GO zone. The more to the left the greater the virtue. That is extremely dangerous POD.
#15124139
Julian658 wrote:Anyone in the far right ... is an anti-intellectual.


Yes, and so are many people in the USA. And this is why fascism is particularly worrisome for the USA.

As I told you a million times we at least have a NO-GO zone in the extreme right which is white nationalism.


And then I presented evidence that Trump uses the theme if white nationalism in his Tweets all the time, which shows that it is not only accepted by the US right, but rewarded by people like Trump supporters.

And it is interesting that you use “we” when you talk about the far right. It seems that you identify with them.
By late
#15124140
Julian658 wrote:
Leaving aside most emotional issues and class warfare. A true conservative believes in a small government, self discipline, hard work, and individuality. A true liberal believes the government should create a system to hold up those that fall behind. The answer is in the middle.

AOC is a created figure. She was recruited for the position and she was a hit. She is charismatic, good looking, and smart, the perfect candidate for her district. She is an effective messenger for her handlers. However, at the end of the day she is also a lightweight. Her new green deal is Disneyland. The solution for global warming is Thorium Power plants. This is cheap, safe and with ZERO carbon production. However, the left will never go there because they are not that smart or have another agenda driven by emotion. Emotion drives most of our reasoning.



Nuke power is going to have to be part of the transition. Absolutely.

Most of the rest strikes me as silly. We are in an empire. It's like standing in the Death Star and saying you're for small government. Suuurrre.....

The answer lies in the fixing the problem. If it's ideologically conservative, like the Carbon Tax, so be it.

Put that way, all pols are "created". She's smart as a whip, and already proved her worth, which most in Congress couldn't have said this quickly.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124142
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, and so are many people in the USA. And this is why fascism is particularly worrisome for the USA.



And then I presented evidence that Trump uses the theme if white nationalism in his Tweets all the time, which shows that it is not only accepted by the US right, but rewarded by people like Trump supporters.

And it is interesting that you use “we” when you talk about the far right. It seems that you identify with them.

POD

Everybody I know is all over Trump for his racist statements. There is a NO-GO zone on the right.
Is there a NO-GO zone on the left? Is there something in the left you dislike?

We: yes, the overwhelming majority Republicans approve of the NO-GO zone.
Are you willing to condemn the authoritarian side of communism? You seem to avoid answering that simple question.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124143
late wrote:Nuke power is going to have to be part of the transition. Absolutely.

Most of the rest strikes me as silly. We are in an empire. It's like standing in the Death Star and saying you're for small government. Suuurrre.....

The answer lies in the fixing the problem. If it's ideologically conservative, like the Carbon Tax, so be it.

Put that way, all pols are "created". She's smart as a whip, and already proved her worth, which most in Congress couldn't have said this quickly.
A thorium plant produces way less radioactive waste and it only needs to be stored for 300 years.
The atomic bombs and the nuclear power accidents put the Thorium plants plans on the shelve. That is a shame! Solar and wind are incredibly unreliable and very damaging to the environment. However, the people that want this are reasoning with emotions.

AOC is above average smart, but she is not a true scholar. Sadly, the real smart people do not run for office or do not know how to play the game. You think she is great because you agree with her. It is known as the echo chamber effect or confirmation bias.
#15124144
Julian658 wrote:POD

Everybody I know is all over Trump for his racist statements. There is a NO-GO zone on the right.


No, there is not.

Do you think the people who walk around Seig Heiling and carrying Tiki torches are not Trump voters?
By late
#15124151
Julian658 wrote:
A thorium plant produces way less radioactive waste and it only needs to be stored for 300 years.
The atomic bombs and the nuclear power accidents put the Thorium plants plans on the shelve. That is a shame! Solar and wind are incredibly unreliable and very damaging to the environment. However, the people that want this are reasoning with emotions.

AOC is above average smart, but she is not a true scholar. Sadly, the real smart people do not run for office or do not know how to play the game. You think she is great because you agree with her. It is known as the echo chamber effect or confirmation bias.



I already agreed with you, but you couldn't resist the chance to make another mistake. There simply is no one size fits all answer. Here in New England, we have Hydro Quebec, which is on the ballot in the upcoming election. But wind and solar need to be part of the equation, where they would work well.

Americans don't vote for serious intellectuals. But... she is plenty smart, and more importantly, unlike her brethren, she does her homework. There was a gal from Conn in the 80s, brilliant and a hard worker, Pat Schroeder. She made most pols look like idiots. She should have been president.
Last edited by late on 01 Oct 2020 16:36, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124152
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, there is not.

Do you think the people who walk around Seig Heiling and carrying Tiki torches are not Trump voters?

POD
KKK types are even less in numbers than the Antifa incels. The KKK or the NAZI party is not even in the top 1000 problems facing the American black community. You need to stop posting worn out recycled statements that have very little meaning. You are a STEM man and hence can do much better.

You never answer the questions:

Are you willing to condemn the authoritarianism and repression in communists states?
IS there a NO-GO zone on the extreme left?

You obviously do not have the balls to answer the questions. :knife: :knife: :knife:
#15124156
Julian658 wrote:POD
KKK types are even less in numbers than the Antifa incels.


We both know you will not provide evidence for this claim.

Also, Antifa and incels are two separate groups.

But regardless of actual numbers, the history of violence in the last few years clearly shows that white supremacists and white nationalists are far more of a threat than people opposed to fascism.

People opposed to fascism are only a threat to fascists.

The KKK or the NAZI party is not even in the top 1000 problems facing the American black community.


Do you mean these two specific groups, or white supremacy in general?
User avatar
By Julian658
#15124161
late wrote:I already agreed with you, but you couldn't resist the chance to make another mistake. There simply is no one size fits all answer. Here in New England, we have Hydro Quebec, which is on the ballot in the upcoming election. But wind and solar need to be part of the equation, where they would work well.

Americans don't vote for serious intellectuals. But... she is plenty smart, and more importantly, unlike her brethren, she does her homework. There was a gal from Conn in the 80s, brilliant and a hard worker, Pat Schroeder. She made most pols look like idiots. She should have been president.


No one in the world has worked harder at solar and wind power than the Germans. They have been doing it for at least two decades with poor results. They have to still rely on fossil fuels. They continue to put out carbon into the atmosphere in record numbers. France decided to go nuclear. Near 100% of the French energy is nuclear and they make very little carbon in the process. Furthermore the energy in France is cheap whereas it is extremely expensive in Germany.

The Germans are smart, but operating from an emotional perspective. And that is how I see AOC. She is against nuclear. AOC also believes that what is morally correct is more important than facts. Sadly many would follow her blindly just as many follow Trump blindly. I am certain she could do a lot of good, but in the end her emotional investment could lead to chaos.

Kudos to the French! They also handle race relations way better than the rest of the western world.
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