[Pants-of-dog]

Please stop with the strawmen, Thanks.

Cuba is doing far better than most developing countries on many metrics.

It is also doing as well as developed countries on other metrics.

This is true regardless of who moves where.

[XogGyux]

It is no strawman.
Cuba was doing better than all developing countries back when Fidel got power. Your point? Just because the other 400lbs "runners" have not caught up with you it does not mean that you are running lightning fast.

[wat0n]

Please stop with the strawmen, Thanks.

Cuba is doing far better than most developing countries on many metrics.

It is also doing as well as developed countries on other metrics.

This is true regardless of who moves where.

So voting with your feet only matters when you are trying to make a case for the policies of the current Cuban government. Got it.

[skinster]

I love the constant tears of people who get that there are people in the world who've enjoyed their time in Cuba.

They're delicious in their consistency.

[Pants-of-dog]

@skinster

What I find tedious is the way they think that this is an actual argument instead of (at best) a bad attempt at calling us hypocrites.

We can be hypocrites and still be right.

[skinster]

You must admit though, it is funny how they think their incessant whining will have an effect beyond them sounding like whiners.

Anyway, Cuba celebrates the victory of socialism in Bolivia.

[wat0n]

@skinster

What I find tedious is the way they think that this is an actual argument instead of (at best) a bad attempt at calling us hypocrites.

We can be hypocrites and still be right.

But you are not, and have not shown how. @XogGyux already gave you a counter-argument: Cuba was among the richest Latin American countries before the Revolution, now it's not.

I also provided another counter-argument a long while ago, too: Cuban infant and fetal mortality data is odd and suggests they are performing late-term abortions of weak newborns with a high probability of dying upon birth at a greater rate than other Western countries to "reduce" infant mortality. Likewise, Cuban schooling data is also strange, as its self-administered tests suggest there is no improvement in learning outcomes from 3rd to 4th grade. At last, even NGOs and international organizations report both hunger in Cuba and a relative lack of interest in emigrating there.

The truth is that the only counter-argument to the above is that "well, you have never been to Cuba and if you criticize the dictatorship there then you hate the country!", and even that has been blown out by the disregard of the arguments of an actual Cuban who grew up in the island about how things work there.

[Pants-of-dog]

Also, the way they make claims and do not support them with evidence is also tedious.

This may be a class thing, so it may not be conscious on their part.

[wat0n]

Oh yes, the other "argument" these people provide is to simply pretend we haven't already had this discussion and that arguments were not properly sourced already, as if they could not look for the posts ITT containing them using the search function.

[skinster]

Also, the way they make claims and do not support them with evidence is also tedious.

This may be a class thing, so it may not be conscious on their part.

It's typical of gusanos in my experience.

Anyway, these people support capitalism in 2020 and think that makes them superior. The smugness in their tone with their demands and such, something completely unearned, makes me laugh too.

wat0n in particular always sounds like one of us shoved a stick up his ass. Like, relax bitch. You're entitled to your shitty opinions too.

[wat0n]

It's typical of gusanos in my experience.

Anyway, these people support capitalism in 2020 and think that makes them superior. The smugness in their tone with their demands and such, something completely unearned, makes me laugh too.

wat0n in particular always sounds like one of us shoved a stick up his ass. Like, relax bitch. You're entitled to your shitty opinions too.

I'm pretty chill, actually, I'm not the one who's butthurt defending an already failed system using idiotic arguments from Twitter.

[skinster]

Weird, you always sound butthurt. You're a gusano living in the U.S. now, celebrate that. Tell us how great your new home is!

[wat0n]

Weird, you always sound butthurt. You're a gusano living in the U.S. now, celebrate that. Tell us how great your new home is!

Way better than Cuba for sure, which is why there are so many of them in places like Miami and why they never quite stopped moving there - they kept moving there even in the "golden" years of the 1980s when it could still rely on $1+ million a day from the Soviets. Hell, there are even quite a few in far-away Chile (along with hundreds of thousands of newly arrived Venezuelans), which should say enough about people voting with their feet.

I can see you are still butthurt, maybe you are the one who needs a cavity search in case something got stuck up inside?

[XogGyux]

I.

Anyway, these people support capitalism in 2020 and think that makes them superior. The smugness in their tone with their demands and such, something completely unearned, makes me laugh too.

You know who did realize that capitalism was superior? Fucking Cuba. Take a look at the reforms that they did the minute that Fidel was out of the picture:

Expenditure adjustments (education, healthcare, sports, culture)
Change in the structure of employment; reduce inflated payrolls and increase work in the non-state sector.
Legalizing of 201 different personal business licenses
Fallow state land in usufruct leased to residents
Incentives for non-state employment, as a re-launch of self-employment
Proposals for creation of non-agricultural cooperatives
Legalization of sale and private ownership of homes and cars
Greater autonomy for state firms
Search for food self-sufficiency, gradual elimination of universal rationing and change to targeting poorest population
Possibility to rent state-run enterprises to self-employed, among them state restaurants
Separation of state and business functions
Tax policy update
Easier travel for Cubans
Strategies for external debt restructuring

This was not ages ago, this was in 2011... almost yesterdays as far as time goes.
"Legalization of ownership of cars and homes" ROFL
You are defending a backward system, it makes you either backward or naive.

[Pants-of-dog]

Since home ownership has been brought up, how does Cuba compare to other countries in terms of homelessness and foreclosures?

[skinster]

[XogGyux]

Since home ownership has been brought up, how does Cuba compare to other countries in terms of homelessness and foreclosures?

I am telling you, you are making such a compelling argument for cuba, and how brilliant and safe and prosperous it is that I am surprised that you keep refusing to move there .
Maybe you can go a live in a solar where you get to pee and poop on a bucket .
But dont worry when you catch a disease due to the poor living conditions, at least healthcare is free. Just make sure to take your own pillow, blankets, food, water and antibiotics to the hospital .

[skinster]

^ That dumb argument again.

This is the culture that wat0n and the X guy think is superior.

Since home ownership has been brought up, how does Cuba compare to other countries in terms of homelessness and foreclosures?

Does Cuba have tent cities of homeless people all around its country like the U.S. does?

[Pants-of-dog]

I am telling you, you are making such a compelling argument for cuba, and how brilliant and safe and prosperous it is that I am surprised that you keep refusing to move there .
Maybe you can go a live in a solar where you get to pee and poop on a bucket .
But dont worry when you catch a disease due to the poor living conditions, at least healthcare is free. Just make sure to take your own pillow, blankets, food, water and antibiotics to the hospital .

Again, my personal behaviour does not invalidate my argument. At best, it makes me a hypocrite.

Now, since you did not reply to my argument, this post of yours does not move the discussion forward.

Please let me know if you would like to discuss how Cuba compares to its capitalist counterparts in terms of housing. Thank you.

[skinster]

Rightwingers ITT: 25 flavours of ice-cream and buying nice things mean freedom! (plus let's always ignore the mass-murder worldwide our state is committing and its rapid destruction of the environment)

Socialists ITT: Housing, healthcare and education are human rights and we support countries that provide these things, even if they're poor / third world islands that have lived under an economic blockade for over half a century that's stunting its development (but also it builds forests on purpose to protect the environment, how cool)

Rightwingers ITT: 25 FLAVOURS OF ICE-CREAM I SAY!