Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 102 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15128516
Pants-of-dog wrote:Again, my personal behaviour does not invalidate my argument. At best, it makes me a hypocrite.

Of course, it does. Stand in front of a well claiming how clean and safe for drinking the water is while you yourself only drink from bottled water to see how many people end up drinking from that well :lol: .
Of course, you could also do what the Cuban government does of eliminating all alternative sources of water as to compel everyone to drink from said well regardless of safety but that is not just hypocritical, that is wrong.
Told you before, you have no argument, just a claim, propaganda.
Now, since you did not reply to my argument, this post of yours does not move the discussion forward.

Please let me know if you would like to discuss how Cuba compares to its capitalist counterparts in terms of housing. Thank you.

ROFL. I have addressed this before. The same way that I have addressed the false claims of "education powerhouse" and "healthcare powerhouse" and this nonsense. Go back to my prior responses and read them.

skinster wrote:Rightwingers ITT: 25 flavours of ice-cream and buying nice things mean freedom! (plus let's always ignore the mass-murder worldwide our state is committing and its rapid destruction of the environment)

Socialists ITT: Housing, healthcare and education are human rights and we support countries that provide these things, even if they're poor / third world islands that have lived under an economic blockade for over half a century that's stunting its development (but also it builds forests on purpose to protect the environment, how cool)

Rightwingers ITT: 25 FLAVOURS OF ICE-CREAM I SAY!


Awwwee... how cute. @QatzelOk 's brain worms seem to have spread onto you. Now you guys can make a couple of cute conspiracists. Anybody that doesn't buy your nonsense automatically gets labeled with some sort of simplistic "materialist" world view :lol: .
The problem with your stupid statement is that you would have a very hard time trying to claim that I am some sort of rightwinger :lol: Fucking ridiculous. I got 10 years + of post in this forum that proves otherwise. It is so sad that people keep falling for cheap propaganda :lol: :p :eek: :?: :violin: :moron:
#15128517
skinster wrote:^ That dumb argument again. :lol:

This is the culture that wat0n and the X guy think is superior.


Funny because in a country where the Government owns the means of production like Cuba, that's exactly the kind of stuff you get - but without even the ability to consume whatever you want (because they are too poor to do that), or the right to publicly criticize the state of affairs in his country like this senile clown is.

Are you done taking out the multiple shovels you have in your ass?

:)
#15128520
wat0n: Can't criticize, how terrible!

Me: Yeah but, destroying countries and lives all over the world including domestically, starving entire countries, in a quest for resources that don't benefit their own people, while destroying the environment.

wat0n: 25 flavours of ice-cream!!!

XogGyux wrote:Awwwee... how cute. @QatzelOk 's brain worms seem to have spread onto you. Now you guys can make a couple of cute conspiracists. Anybody that doesn't buy your nonsense automatically gets labeled with some sort of simplistic "materialist" world view :lol: .


You are whining again, please stop that.

The problem with your stupid statement is that you would have a very hard time trying to claim that I am some sort of rightwinger :lol: Fucking ridiculous. I got 10 years + of post in this forum that proves otherwise. It is so sad that people keep falling for cheap propaganda :lol: :p :eek: :?: :violin: :moron:


First of all, my statement isn't stupid, I was bringing things down to a level I thought you'd understand, so you take that back.

Secondly, OK I assumed you're a disgusting rightwing pig-dog but I'm glad that's not true after all. I don't know of your posts beyond this thread but it's usually people on the right with bad politics who attack Cuba. And it's really boring.
#15128529
skinster wrote:
You are whining again, please stop that.

Uh.. nah. I think it is you the whining one. :lol: Mr. Propaganda. I never thought I would have to see Telerebelde, Cubavision or Gramma propaganda once outside of that place. Damn I was wrong :knife: .
Please stop whining!

Secondly, OK I assumed you're a disgusting rightwing pig-dog but I'm glad that's not true after all. I don't know of your posts beyond this thread but it's usually people on the right with bad politics who attack Cuba. And it's really boring.

WOW. Everyone that disagrees with you is a "disgusting rightwing pig-dog"? WOW...
This seems to be a trend amongst ideologies. It is an "all or nothing" approach with you guys. Either you accept the good stuff and learn to love famine and poverty... or you are not a true socialist :lol: So fucking ridiculous. That is fanatism, that is a cult. Mindless following.
Second, I am calling out your bullshit because I know for a fact that we have interacted in many other threads.
Stop whining. 8)
#15128532
skinster wrote:wat0n: Can't criticize, how terrible!

Me: Yeah but, destroying countries and lives all over the world including domestically, starving entire countries, in a quest for resources that don't benefit their own people, while destroying the environment.

wat0n: 25 flavours of ice-cream!!!


Are you done babycrying? Do the shovels hurt too much?

Also, just in case you were unaware, Cuba has its own history of foreign interventions, so don't think that will fly around anywhere.

You should go to the doctor to get this stuff taken out of your butt

:)
#15128545
Pants-of-dog wrote:If you would like to make some sort of factual claim about homelessness in Cuba, please do so.

I have addressed all of this before.
It seems that you think you have found a silver bullet :lol: ROFL! What a joke. We have gone through many of these supposedly silver bullets before and I have addressed each and every single one of these. You don't seem to care that children are learning on schools with bathrooms that have 4 inches of sewer water on the floor. Or that they are being taught with books of the soviet era printed in the 1970's and early 80's that have not really kept with what we have learned in the last 50 years. Or that surgeons are forced to recycle blades which were meant to be disposable, so many times that they lose the edge and cannot cut anymore.
Some of you praise their "environmental" record when more than half the cars in Cuba are fucking guzzlers, Almendares River o Bahia de La Habana contamination.
So somehow... housing is the silver bullet this time... Not education, Not healthcare, no Environmental record... now you are sure you going to win this argument once and for all with your new silver bullet :lol: .
I am sorry, but the degree of disconnect that you guys are exhibiting is quite pathetic.

Furthermore... Even if you could find 1 or 2 or even a handful of things that you could praise... even if you could find those "silver bullets" the facts of the matter in question are quite clear, undeniable. As a whole, the system is crumbling. The people are living in misery, fleeing the country or wishing that they had the opportunity to flee (sadly, many don't have it that easy). Their industries have vanished. All that they currently have is a carcass of a previous civilization.
#15128552
wat0n & X guy - :*( :*( :*( Cuba!! :*( :*( :*(

Meanwhile in America:

Chris Hedges, a few days ago wrote:The Politics of Cultural Despair
The physical and moral decay of the United States and the malaise it has spawned have predictable results. We have seen in varying forms the consequences of social and political collapse during the twilight of the Greek and Roman empires, the Ottoman and Hapsburg empires, Tsarist Russia, Weimar Germany and the former Yugoslavia. Voices from the past, Aristotle, Cicero, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Joseph Roth and Milovan Djilas, warned us. But blinded by self-delusion and hubris, as if we are somehow exempt from human experience and human nature, we refuse to listen.

The United States is a shadow of itself. It squanders its resources in futile military adventurism, a symptom of all empires in decay as they attempt to restore a lost hegemony by force. Vietnam. Afghanistan. Iraq. Syria. Libya. Tens of millions of lives wrecked. Failed states. Enraged fanatics. There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world, 24 percent of the global population, and we have turned virtually all of them into our enemies.

We are piling up massive deficits and neglecting our basic infrastructure, including electrical grids, roads, bridges and public transportation, to spend more on our military that all the other major powers on Earth combined. We are the world’s largest producer and exporter of arms and munitions. The virtues we argue we have a right to impose by force on others — human rights, democracy, the free market, the rule of law and personal freedoms — are mocked at home where grotesque levels of social inequality and austerity programs have impoverished most of the public, destroyed democratic institutions, including Congress, the courts and the press, and created militarized forces of internal occupation that carry out wholesale surveillance of the public, run the largest prison system in the world and gun down unarmed citizens in the streets with impunity.

The American burlesque, darkly humorous with its absurdities of Donald Trump, fake ballot boxes, conspiracy theorists who believe the deep state and Hollywood run a massive child sex trafficking ring, Christian fascists that place their faith in magic Jesus and teach creationism as science in our schools, ten hour long voting lines in states such as Georgia, militia members planning to kidnap the governors of Michigan and Virginia and start a civil war, is also ominous, especially as we ignore the accelerating ecocide.

All of our activism, protests, lobbying, petitions, appeals to the United Nations, the work of NGOs and misguided trust in liberal politicians such as Barack Obama have been accompanied by a 60 percent rise in global carbon emissions since 1990. Estimates predict another 40 percent rise in global emissions in the next decade. We are less than a decade away from carbon dioxide levels reaching 450 parts per million, the equivalent to a 2 degree Celsius average temperature rise, a global catastrophe that will make parts of the earth uninhabitable, flood coastal cities, dramatically reduce crop yields and result in suffering and death for billions of people. This is what is coming, and we can’t wish it away.

I speak to you in Troy, New York, once the second largest producer of iron in the country after Pittsburgh. It was an industrial hub for the garment industry, a center for the production of shirts, shirtwaists, collars, and cuffs, and was once home to foundries that made bells to firms that crafted precision instruments. All that is gone, of course, leaving behind the post-industrial decay, the urban blight and the shattered lives and despair that are sadly familiar in most cities in the United States.

It is this despair that is killing us. It eats into the social fabric, rupturing social bonds, and manifests itself in an array of self-destructive and aggressive pathologies. It fosters what the anthropologist Roger Lancaster calls “poisoned solidarity,” the communal intoxication forged from the negative energies of fear, suspicion, envy and the lust for vengeance and violence. Nations in terminal decline embrace, as Sigmund Freud understood, the death instinct. No longer sustained by the comforting illusion of inevitable human progress, they lose the only antidote to nihilism. No longer able to build, they confuse destruction with creation. They descend into an atavistic savagery, something not only Freud but Joseph Conrad and Primo Levi knew lurks beneath the thin veneer of civilized society. Reason does not guide our lives. Reason, as Schopenhauer puts it, echoing Hume, is the hard-pressed servant of the will.

“Men are not gentle creatures who want to be loved, and who at the most can defend themselves if they are attacked,” Freud wrote. “They are, on the contrary, creatures among whose instinctual endowments is to be reckoned a powerful share of aggressiveness. As a result, their neighbor is for them not only a potential helper or sexual object, but also someone who tempts them to satisfy their aggressiveness on him, to exploit his capacity for work without compensation, to use him sexually without his consent, to seize his possessions, to humiliate him, to cause him pain, to torture and to kill him. Homo homini lupus. Who, in the face of all his experience of life and history, will have the courage to dispute this assertion? As a rule, this cruel aggressiveness waits for some provocation or puts itself at the service of some other purpose, whose goal might also have been reached by milder measures. In circumstances that are favorable to it, when the mental counter-forces which ordinarily inhibit it are out of action, it also manifests itself spontaneously and reveals man as a savage beast to whom consideration towards his own kind is something alien.”

Freud, like Primo Levi, got it. The moral life is a matter of circumstances. Moral consideration, as I saw in the wars I covered, largely disappears in moments of extremity. It is the luxury of the privileged. “Ten percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and the remaining 80 percent can be moved in either direction,” Susan Sontag said.

To survive, it was necessary, Levi wrote of life in the death camps, “to throttle all dignity and kill all conscience, to climb down into the arena as a beast against other beasts, to let oneself be guided by those unsuspected subterranean forces which sustain families and individuals in cruel times. “It was, he wrote, “a Hobbesian life,” “a continuous war of everyone against everyone.” Varlam Shalamov, imprisoned for 25 years in Stalin’s gulags, was equally pessimistic: “All human emotions–of love, friendship, envy, concern for one’s fellowman, compassion, a longing for fame, honesty–had left us with the flesh that had melted from our bodies during our long fasts. The camp was a great test of our moral strength, of our everyday morality, and 99% of us failed it…Conditions in the camps do not permit men to remain men; that is not what camps were created for.”

Social collapse will bring these latent pathologies to the surface.

But the fact that circumstances can reduce us to savagery does not negate the moral life. As our empire implodes, and with it social cohesion, as the earth increasingly punishes us for our refusal to honor and protect the systems that give us life, triggering a scramble for diminishing natural resources and huge climate migrations, we must face this darkness, not only around us, but within us.

The dance macabre is already underway. Hundreds of thousands of Americans die each year from opioid overdoes, alcoholism and suicide, what sociologists calls deaths of despair. This despair fuels high rates of morbid obesity, some 40 percent of the public, gambling addictions, the pornification of the society with the ubiquitous of images of sexual sadism along with the proliferation of armed right-wing militias and nihilistic mass shootings. As despair mounts, so will these acts of self-immolation.

Those overwhelmed by despair seek magical salvations, whether in crisis cults, such as the Christian Right, or demagogues such as Trump, or rage-filled militias that see violence as a cleansing agent. As long as these dark pathologies are allowed to fester and grow–and the Democratic Party has made it clear it will not enact the kinds of radical social reforms that will curb these pathologies–the United States will continue its march towards disintegration and social upheaval. Removing Trump will neither halt nor slow the descent.

An estimated 300,000 American will be dead from the pandemic in December, a figure that is expected to rise to 400,000 in January. Chronic underemployment and unemployment, close to 20 percent when those who have stopped looking for work, those furloughed with no prospect of being rehired and those who work part-time but are still below the poverty line, are included in the official statistic instead of being magically erased from the unemployment rolls. Our privatized health care system, which is making record profits during the pandemic, is not designed to cope with a public health emergency. It is designed to maximize profit for its owners. There are fewer than 1 million hospital beds nationally, a result of the decades-long trend of hospital mergers and closures that have reduced access to care in communities across the nation. Cities such as Milwaukee have been forced to erect field hospitals. In states such as Mississippi there are no longer any ICU beds available. The for-profit health service did not stockpile the ventilators, masks, tests or drugs to deal with COVID-19. Why should it? That is not a route to increased revenue. And there is no substantial difference between Trump and Biden’s response to the health crisis, where 1,000 people a day are dying.

Forty-eight percent of front line workers remain ineligible for sick pay. Some 43 million Americans have lost their employee-sponsored health insurance. There are ten thousand bankruptcies a day, with perhaps two-thirds of them tied to exorbitant medial costs. Food banks are overrun with tens of thousands of desperate families. Roughly 10 to 14 million renter households, or 23 to 34 million people, were behind on their rent in September. That amounts to $12 to $17 billion in unpaid rent. And that figure is expected to rise to $34 billion in past due rent in January. The lifting of the moratorium on evictions and forecloses will mean that millions of families, many destitute, will be tossed onto the street. Hunger in U.S. households almost tripled between 2019 and August of this year, according to the Census Bureau and the Department of Agriculture. The proportion of American children who do not have enough to eat, the study found, is 14 times higher than it was last year. A study by Columbia University, found that since May there are eight million more Americans who can be classified as poor. Meanwhile, the 50 richest Americans hold as much wealth as half of the United States. Millennials, some 72 million people, have 4.6 percent of U.S. wealth.

Only one thing matters to the corporate state. It is not democracy. It is not truth. It is not the consent of the governed. It is not income inequality. It is not the surveillance state. It is not endless war. It is not jobs. It is not the climate crisis. It is the primacy of corporate power
— which has extinguished our democracy, taken from us our most basic civil liberties and left most of the working class in misery — and the increase and consolidation of its wealth and power.

Trump and Biden are repugnant figures, doddering into old age with cognitive lapses and no moral cores. Is Trump more dangerous than Biden? Yes. Is Trump inepter and more dishonest? Yes. Is Trump more of a threat to the open society? Yes. Is Biden the solution? No.

Biden cannot plausibly offer change. He can only offer more of the same. And most Americans do not want more of the same. The country’s largest voting-age bloc, the 100 million-plus citizens who out of apathy or disgust do not vote, will once again stay home. This demoralization of the electorate is by design.

In America we are only permitted to vote against what we hate. Partisan media outlets set one group against another, a consumer version of what George Orwell in his novel 1984 called the “Two minutes of Hate.” Our opinions and prejudices are skillfully catered to and reinforced, with the aid of a detailed digital analysis of our proclivities and habits, and then sold back to us. The result, as Matt Taibbi writes, is “packaged anger just for you.” The public is unable to speak across the manufactured divide. Politics, under the assault, has atrophied into a tawdry reality show centered on manufactured political personalities. Civic discourse has been poisoned by invective and lies. Power, meanwhile, is left unexamined and unchallenged.

Political coverage is modeled, as Taibbi points out, on sports coverage. The sets look like the sets on Sunday NFL Countdown. The anchor is on one side. There are four commentators, two from each team. Graphics keep us updated on the score. Political identities are reduced to easily digestible stereotypes. Tactics, strategy, image, the monthly tallies of campaign contributions and polling are endlessly examined, while real political issues are ignored. It is the language and imagery of war.

This coverage masks the fact that on nearly all the major issues the two major political parties are in complete agreement. The deregulation of the financial industry, trade agreements, the militarization of police — the Pentagon has transferred more than $ 7.4 billion in excess military gear and hardware to nearly 8,000 federal and state law enforcement agencies since 1990 — the explosion in the prison population, deindustrialization, austerity, support for fracking and the fossil fuel industry, the endless wars in the Middle East, the bloated military budget, the control of elections and mass media by corporations and the wholesale government surveillance of the population–and when the government watches you 24 hours a day you cannot use the word liberty, this is the relationship of a master and a slave — all have bipartisan support. And for this reason, these issues are almost never discussed.

This goal is to set demographic against demographic. This stoking of antagonism is not news. It is entertainment, driven not by journalism but marketing strategies to increase viewership and corporate sponsors. News divisions are corporate revenue streams competing against other corporate revenue streams. The template for news, as Taibbi writes in his book Hate Inc., the cover of which has Sean Hannity on one side and Rachel Maddow on the other, is the simplified morality play used in professional wrestling. There are only two real political positions in the United States. You love Trump or you hate him, which comes from the playbook of professional wrestling.

By voting for Biden and the Democratic Party you vote for something.

You vote to endorse the humiliation of courageous women such as Anita Hill who confronted their abusers. You vote for the architects of the endless wars in the Middle East. You vote for the apartheid state in Israel. You vote for wholesale surveillance of the public by government intelligence agencies and the abolition of due process and habeas corpus. You vote for austerity programs, including the destruction of welfare and cuts to Social Security. You vote for NAFTA, free trade deals, de-industrialization, a real decline in wages, the loss of hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs and the offshoring of jobs to underpaid workers who toil in sweatshops in Mexico, China or Vietnam. You vote for the assault on teachers and public education and the transfer of federal funds to for-profit and Christian charter schools. You vote for the doubling of our prison population, the tripling and quadrupling of sentences and huge expansion of crimes meriting the death penalty. You vote for militarized police who gun down poor people of color with impunity. You vote against the Green New Deal and immigration reform. You vote for the fracking industry. You vote for limiting a woman’s right to abortion and reproductive rights. You vote for a segregated public-school system in which the wealthy receive educational opportunities and poor people of color are denied a chance. You vote for punitive levels of student debt and the inability to free yourself of those debt obligations even if file for bankruptcy. You vote for deregulating the banking industry and the abolition of Glass-Steagall. You vote for the for-profit insurance and pharmaceutical corporations and against universal health care. You vote for defense budgets that consume more than half of all discretionary spending. You vote for the use of unlimited oligarchic and corporate money to buy our elections. You vote for a politician who during his time in the Senate abjectly served the interests of MBNA, the largest independent credit card company headquartered in Delaware, which also employed Biden’s son Hunter.


Biden was one of the principle architects of the wars in the Middle East, where we have squandered upwards of $7 trillion and destroyed or extinguished the lives of millions of people. He is responsible for far more suffering and death at home and abroad than Trump. If we had a functioning judicial and legislative system, Biden, along with the other architects of our disastrous imperial wars, corporate plundering of the country and betrayal of the American working class, would be put on trial, not offered up as a solution to our political and economic debacle.

The Democrats and their liberal apologists adopt tolerant positions on issues regarding race, religion, immigration, women’s rights and sexual identity and pretend this is politics. These issues are societal or ethical issues. They are important. But they are not social or political issues. The seizure of control of the economy by a class of global speculators and corporations has ruined the lives of the very groups the Democrats pretend to lift up. When Bill Clinton and the Democratic Party, for example, destroyed the old welfare system, 70 percent of the recipients were children. Those on the right of the political spectrum — and we must never forget that the positions of the Democratic Party would make it a far-right party in Europe — demonize those on the margins of society as scapegoats. The culture wars mask the reality. Both parties are full partners in the destruction of our democratic institutions. Both parties have reconfigured American society into a mafia state. It only depends on how you want it dressed up.

The power of politicians such as Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer or Mitch McConnell comes from being able funnel corporate money to anointed candidates. In a functioning political system, one not saturated with corporate cash, they would not hold power. They have transformed what the Roman philosopher Cicero called a commonwealth, a res publica, a “public thing” or the “property of a people,” into an instrument of pillage and repression on behalf of a global corporate oligarchy. We are serfs ruled by the obscenely rich, omnipotent masters who loot the U.S. Treasury, pay little or no taxes and have perverted the judiciary, the media and the legislative branches of government to strip us of civil liberties and give them the freedom to engage in tax boycotts, financial fraud and theft.

In the midst of the pandemic crisis what did our ruling kleptocratic rulers do?

They looted $4 trillion on a scale unseen since the 2008 bailout overseen by Barack Obama and Biden. They gorged and enriched themselves at our expense, while tossing crumbs out of the windows of their private jets, yachts, penthouses and palatial estates to the suffering and despised masses.


The CARES Act handed trillions in funds or tax breaks to oil companies, the airline industry, which alone got $50 billion in stimulus money, the cruise ship industry, a $170 billion windfall for the real estate industry. It handed subsidies to private equity firms, lobbying groups, whose political action committees have given $191 million in campaign contributions to politicians in the last two decades, the meat industry and corporations that have moved offshore to avoid U.S. taxes. The act allowed the largest corporations to gobble up money that was supposed to keep small businesses solvent to pay workers. It gave 80 percent of tax breaks under the stimulus package to millionaires and allowed the wealthiest to get stimulus checks that average $1.7 million. The CARES Act also authorized $454 billion for the Treasury Department’s Exchange Stabilization Fund, a massive slush fund doled out by Trump cronies to corporations that, when leveraged 10 to 1, can be used to create a staggering $4.5 trillion in assets. The act authorized the Fed to give $1.5 trillion in loans to Wall Street, which no one expects will ever be paid back. American billionaires have gotten $434 billion richer since the pandemic. Jeff Bezos, the richest man in the world, whose corporation Amazon paid no federal taxes last year, alone added nearly $72 billion to his personal wealth since the pandemic started. During this same time period 55 million Americans lost their jobs.

The molding of the public into warring factions works commercially. It works politically. It destroys, as it is designed to do, class solidarity. But it is a recipe for social disintegration. It propels us towards the kind of Hobbesian world Primo Levi and Sigmund Freud warned us about. I watched competing ethnic groups in the former Yugoslavia retreat into antagonistic tribes. They seized rival mass media outlets and used them to spew lies, mythological narratives exalting themselves, along with vitriol and hate against the ethnicities they demonized. This poisoned solidarity, which we are replicating, pumped out month after month in Yugoslavia, destroyed the capacity for empathy, perhaps the best definition of evil, and led to a savage fratricide.

The United States, awash in military-grade weaponry, is already plagued by an epidemic of mass shootings. There are death threats against critics of Trump, including Rep. Ilhan Omar. There was an aborted plot by 13 members of a right-wing militia group to kidnap and perhaps assassinate the governors of Michigan and Virginian and start a civil war. A Trump supporter mailed pipe bombs to prominent Democrats and CNN, an effort to decapitate the hierarchy of the Democratic Party, as well as terrorize the media outlet that is the party’s principal propaganda platform.

The spark that usually sets such tinder ablaze is martyrdom. Aaron “Jay” Danielson, a supporter of the right-wing group Patriot Prayer, was wearing a loaded Glock pistol in a holster and had bear spray and an expandable metal baton when he was shot dead on August 29, allegedly by Michael Forest Reinoehl, a supporter of antifa, in the streets of Portland. A woman in the crowd can be heard shouting after the shooting: “I am not sad that a fucking fascist died tonight.” Reinoehl was ambushed and killed by federal agents in Washington state in what appears to be an act of extra-judicial murder. Once people start being sacrificed for the cause, it takes little for demagogues to insist that self-preservation necessitates violence.

Political stagnation and corruption, along with economic and social misery, spawn what anthropologists call crisis cults–movements led by demagogues that prey on an unbearable psychological and financial distress and champion violence as a form of moral purification. These crisis cults, already well established among followers of the Christian Right, right-wing militia groups and many followers of Donald Trump, who look at him not a politician but as a cult leader, peddle magical thinking and an infantilism that promises–if you surrender all autonomy–prosperity, restored national glory, a return to a mythical past, order and security. Trump is a symptom. He is not the disease. And if he leaves office far more competent and dangerous demagogues will rise, if the social conditions are not radically improved, to take his place.

I fear we are headed towards a Christianized fascism.

The greatest moral failing of the liberal Christian church was its refusal, justified in the name of tolerance and dialogue, to denounce the followers of the Christian right as heretics. By tolerating the intolerant, it ceded religious legitimacy to an array of con artists, charlatans and demagogues and their cultish supporters. It stood by as the core Gospel message–concern for the poor and the oppressed–was perverted into a magical world where God and Jesus showered believers with material wealth and power. The white race became God’s chosen agent. Imperialism and war became divine instruments for purging the world of infidels and barbarians, evil itself. Capitalism, because God blessed the righteous with wealth and power and condemned the immoral to poverty and suffering, became shorn of its inherent cruelty and exploitation. The iconography and symbols of American nationalism became intertwined with the iconography and symbols of the Christian faith.

The mega-pastors, narcissists who rule despotic, cult-like fiefdoms, make millions of dollars by using this heretical belief system to prey on the despair and desperation of their congregations, victims of neoliberalism and deindustrialization. These believers find in Trump, who preyed on this despair in his casinos and through his sham university, and these mega-pastors, champions of the unfettered greed, cult of masculinity, lust for violence, white supremacy, bigotry, American chauvinism, religious intolerance, anger, racism and conspiracy theories that are the core beliefs of the Christian Right.

When I wrote American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America I was quite serious about the term “fascists.”

Tens of millions of Americans live hermetically sealed inside the vast media and educational edifice erected by the Christian Right. In this world, miracles are real, Satan, allied with liberal secular humanists and the deep state, along with Muslims, immigrants, feminists, intellectuals, artists and a host of other internal enemies, is seeking to destroy America. Trump is God’s anointed vessel to build the Christian nation and cement into place a government that instills “biblical values.” These “biblical values” include banning abortion, protecting the traditional family, turning the Ten Commandments into secular law, crushing “infidels,” especially Muslims, indoctrinating children in schools with “biblical” teachings and thwarting sexual license, which includes any sexual relationship other than marriage between a man and a woman. Trump is routinely compared by evangelical leaders to the biblical king Cyrus, who rebuilt the temple in Jerusalem and restored the Jews to the city.

Trump has filled his ideological void with Christian fascism. He has elevated members of the Christian right to prominent positions, including Mike Pence to the vice presidency, Mike Pompeo to secretary of state, Betsy DeVos to secretary of education, Ben Carson to secretary of housing and urban development, William Barr to attorney general, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court and the televangelist Paula White to his Faith and Opportunities Initiative. More importantly, Trump has handed the Christian right veto and appointment power over key positions in government, especially in the federal courts. He has installed 133 district court judges out of 677 total, 50 appeals court judges out of 179 total, and two U.S. Supreme Court justices, and with Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination most likely three, out of nine. This is nineteen percent of the federal trial judges currently in service. Nearly all of the extremists who make up the judicial appointees have been rated as unqualified by the American Bar Association, the country’s largest nonpartisan coalition of lawyers.

Trump has adopted the Islamophobia of the Christian fascists. He has banned Muslim immigrants and rolled back civil rights legislation. He has made war on reproductive rights by restricting abortion and defunding Planned Parenthood. He has stripped away LGBTQ rights. He has ripped down the firewall between church and state by revoking the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits churches, which are tax-exempt, from endorsing political candidates. His appointees, including Pence, Pompeo and DeVos, throughout the government routinely use biblical strictures to justify an array of policy decisions including environmental deregulation, war, tax cuts and the replacement of public schools with charter schools, an action that permits the transfer of federal education funds to private “Christian” schools. At the same time, they are building paramilitary organizations, not only through ad hoc militias but through mercenary groups of private contractors controlled by figures such as Erik Prince, the brother of Betsy DeVos and the former CEO of Blackwater now called Xe.

I studied ethics at Harvard Divinity School with James Luther Adams who had been in Germany in 1935 and 1936. Adams witnessed the rise there of the so-called German Christian Church which was pro-Nazi. He warned us about the disturbing parallels between the German Christian Church and the Christian right. Adolf Hitler was in the eyes of the German Christian Church a volk messiah and an instrument of God—a view similar to the one held today about Trump by many of his white evangelical supporters. Those demonized for Germany’s economic collapse, especially Jews and communists, were agents of Satan. Fascism, Adams told us, always cloaked itself in a nation’s most cherished symbols and rhetoric. Fascism would come to America not in the guise of stiff-armed, marching brownshirts and Nazi swastikas but in mass recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance, the biblical sanctification of the state and the sacralization of American militarism. Adams was the first person I heard label the extremists of the Christian right as fascists. Liberals, he warned, as in Nazi Germany, were blind to the tragic dimension of history and radical evil. They would not react until it was too late.

Trump’s legacy will, I fear, be the empowerment of the Christian fascists. They are what comes next. Noam Chomsky, for this reason, is right when he warns that Pence is more dangerous than Trump. For decades the Christian fascists have been organizing to take power. They have built infrastructures and organizations, including lobbying groups, schools, colleges and law schools as well as media platforms, to prepare. They have seeded their cadre into positions of power. We on the left, meanwhile, have seen our institutions and organizations destroyed or corrupted by corporate power and been seduced by the boutique activism of identity politics. FRC Action, the legislative affiliate of the Family Research Council, already gives 245 members of Congress a 100 percent approval rating for supporting legislation that is backed by the Christian Right.

Christian fascism is an emotional life raft for tens of millions of Americans. It is impervious to science and verifiable fact. The Christian fascists, by choice, have severed themselves from rational thought and the secular society that almost destroyed them and their families and thrust them into deep despair. We will not placate or disarm this movement, bent on our destruction, by attempting to claim that we, too, have Christian “values.” This appeal only strengthens the legitimacy of the Christian fascists and weakens our own. These dispossessed people will either be reintegrated into the economy and the society and their shattered social bonds mended, or the movement will grow more virulent and more powerful.

The Christian Right is determined to keep the public focus on societal or ethical as opposed to economic issues. The corporate media, whether it supports or opposes the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court, almost exclusively discusses her opposition to abortion and membership in People of Praise, a far-right Catholic sect that practices “speaking in tongues.” What our corporate masters, along with the Christian fascists, do not want examined is Barrett’s subservience to corporate power, her hostility to workers, civil liberties, unions and environmental regulations. Since the Democratic Party is beholden to the same donor class as the Republican Party, and since the media long ago substituted the culture wars for politics, the most ominous threat posed by Barrett and the Christian Right is ignored.

The road to despotism is always paved with righteousness.

All fascist movements paper over their squalid belief systems with the veneer of morality. They mouth pieties about restoring law and order, right and wrong, the sanctity of life, civic and family virtues, patriotism and tradition to mask their dismantling of the open society and silencing and persecution of those who dissent. The Christian Right, awash in money from corporations that understand their political intent, will use any tool, no matter how devious, from right-wing armed militias to the invalidation of ballots, to block Biden and Democratic candidates from assuming office.

Capitalism, driven by the obsession to maximizing profit and reduce the cost of production by slashing worker’s rights and wages, is antithetical to the Christian Gospel, as well as the Enlightenment ethic of Immanuel Kant. But capitalism, in the hands of the Christian fascists, has become sacralized in the form of the Prosperity Gospel, the belief that Jesus came to minister to our material needs, blessing believers with wealth and power. The Prosperity Gospel is an ideological cover for the slow-motion corporate coup d’état. This is why large corporations such as Tyson Foods, which places Christian Right chaplains in its plants, Purdue, Wal-Mart, and Sam’s Warehouse, along with many other corporations, pour money into the movement and its institutions such as Liberty University and Patrick Henry Law School. This is why corporations have given millions to groups such as the Judicial Crisis Network and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to campaign for Barrett’s appointment to the court. Barrett has ruled to cheat gig workers out of overtime, green light fossil fuel extraction and pollution, gut Obamacare and strip consumers of protection from corporate fraud. Barrett, as a circuit court judge, heard at least 55 cases in which citizens challenged corporate abuse and fraud. She ruled in favor of corporations 76 percent of the time.

Our corporate masters do not care about abortion, gun rights or the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. But like the German industrialists who backed the Nazi Party, they know that the Christian Right will give an ideological veneer to ruthless corporate tyranny. These oligarchs view the Christian fascists the same way the German industrialists viewed the Nazis, as buffoons. They are aware that the Christian fascists will trash what is left of our anemic democracy and the natural ecosystem. But they also know they will make huge profits in the process and the rights of workers and citizens will be ruthlessly suppressed.

If you are poor, if you lack proper medical care, if you are paid substandard wages, if you are trapped in the lower class, if you are a victim of police violence, this is because, according to the Prosperity Gospel, you are not a good Christian. In this belief system you deserve what you get. There is nothing wrong, these homegrown fascists preach, with the structures or systems of power. Like all totalitarian movements, followers are seduced into calling for their own enslavement.

As the Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels understood: “The best propaganda is that which, as it were, works invisibly, penetrates the whole of life without the public having any knowledge of the propagandistic initiative.”

The tinder that could ignite violent conflagrations lies ominously stacked around us. It may be triggered by Trump’s defeat in the election. Millions of disenfranchised white Americans, who see no way out of their economic and social misery, struggling with an emotional void, are seething with rage against a corrupt ruling class and bankrupt liberal elite that betrayed them. They are tired of the political stagnation, grotesque, mounting social inequality and the punishing fallout from the pandemic. Millions more alienated young men and women, also locked out of the economy and with no realistic prospect for advancement or integration, gripped by the same emotional void, have harnessed their fury in the name of tearing down the governing structures and anti-fascism. These polarized extremes are inching closer and closer to violence.

There are three options: reform, which, given the decay in the American body politic, is impossible, revolution, or tyranny.

If the corporate state is not overthrown, then America will soon become a naked police state where any opposition, however tepid, will be silenced with draconian censorship or force. Police in cities around the country have already thwarted the reporting by dozens of journalists covering the protests through physical force, arrests, tear gas, rubber bullets and pepper spray. This will become normalized. The huge social divides, often built around race, will be used by the Christian fascists to set neighbor against neighbor. Armed Christian patriots will attack those groups blamed for social collapse. Dissent, even nonviolent dissent, will become treason.

Peter Drucker observed that Nazism succeeded not because people believed in its fantastic promises, but in spite of them. Nazi absurdities, he pointed out, had been “witnessed by a hostile press, a hostile radio, a hostile cinema, a hostile church, and a hostile government which untiringly pointed out the Nazi lies, the Nazi inconsistency, the unattainability of their promises, and the dangers and folly of their course.” Nobody, he noted, “would have been a Nazi if rational belief in the Nazi promises had been a prerequisite.” The poet, playwright and socialist revolutionary Ernst Toller, who was forced into exile and stripped of his citizenship when the Nazis took power in 1933, wrote in his autobiography: “The people are tired of reason, tired of thought and reflection. They ask, what has reason done in the last few years, what good have insights and knowledge done us.” After Toller committed suicide in 1939, W.H. Auden in his poem “In Memory of Ernst Toller” wrote:

We are lived by powers we pretend to understand:
They arrange our loves; it is they who direct at the end
The enemy bullet, the sickness, or even our hand.

Once the internal enemies are purged from the nation, we are promised, America will recover its lost glory, except that once one enemy is obliterated another takes its place. Crisis cults require a steady escalation of conflict and a steady stream of victims. Every new crisis becomes more urgent and more extreme than the last. This is what made the war in the former Yugoslavia inevitable. Once one stage of conflict reaches a crescendo it loses its efficacy. It must be replaced by ever more brutal and deadly confrontations. It is what Ernst Jünger called a “feast of death.”

These crisis cults are, as Drucker understood, irrational and schizophrenic. They have no coherent ideology. They turn morality upside down. They appeal exclusively to emotions. Burlesque and spectacle become politics. Depravity becomes morality. Atrocities and murder, as the federal marshals who wantonly gunned down the antifia activist Michael Forest Reinoehl in Washington State illustrated, becomes heroism. Crime and fraud become justice. Greed and nepotism become civic virtues.

What these crisis cults stand for today, they condemn tomorrow. There is no ideological consistency. There is only emotional consistency. At the height of the reign of terror on May 6, 1794 during the French Revolution, Maximilien Robespierre announced that the Committee for Public Safety now recognized the existence of God. The French revolutionaries, fanatical atheists who had desecrated churches and confiscated church property, murdered hundreds of priests and forced another 30,000 into exile, instantly reversed themselves to send to the guillotine those who disparaged religion. In the end, exhausted by the moral confusion and internal contradictions, these crisis cults yearn for self-annihilation.

The ruling elites will no more restore these ruptured social bonds and address the deep despair that grips America than they will respond to the climate emergency. As the country unravels, they will reach for the familiar tools of state repression and the ideological prop provided by Christian fascism.

It is up to us to carry out sustained acts of nonviolent, mass resistance. If we mobilize in large and small ways to fight for an open society, to create communities that, as Vaclav Havel wrote “live in truth,” we hold out the possibility of pushing back against these crisis cults, holding at bay the brutality that accompanies social upheaval, as well as slowing and disrupting the march towards ecocide. This requires us to acknowledge that our systems of governance are incapable of being reformed. No one in power will save us. No one but us will stand up for the vulnerable, the demonized and the earth itself. All we do must have the single aim of crippling the power of the ruling elites in the hopes of new systems of governance that can implement the radical reforms to save us and our world.

The most difficult existential dilemma we face is to at once acknowledge the bleakness before us and act, to refuse to succumb to cynicism and despair. And we will only do this through faith, the faith that the good draws to it the good, that all acts that nurture and protect life have an intrinsic power, even if the empirical evidence shows that things are getting worse. We will find our freedom, our autonomy, our meaning and our social bonds among those who also resist, and this will allow us to endure, and maybe even triumph.
#15128582
skinster wrote:Congrats. I picked America for six years but soon realized it wasn't somewhere I could live long-term since I couldn't afford healthcare and after about six years of not having it, I thought that was enough. What's your healthcare plan like?

You are suffering from the same black/white lens that fundamentalists on the right fall from. For instance the whole "if you kneel during the anthem you are not american". Recognizing one's defects, and in this case, recognizing your country's own defects is part of a self-reflective path that is necesary for improvement. Self-improvement does not happen by offering excuses.
As to your point. You will not find opposition on me regarding the importance of universal healthcare and/or education. I have been quite clear about my views on the matter on many posts through the last decade in this forum. I have plenty of criticism for how the US manages this and this is not the right thread to discuss any of that as this is about Cuba.
That being said. A few things. Even our homeless and disenfranchised get more healthcare than most Cubans do, the hospital might pretend to charge them 2M USD, but everyone knows that is a non-sensical bill that nobody is going to pay, the hospital just ends up getting some tax breaks and some donations, from time to time some goes into collections and they get paid a couple of cents on the dollar. Yes, it could be better. I want it to be better. That is precisely the reason why I expose the fantasy that is being thrown here... because the Cuban system is NOT better.

Why do you want to know about my insurance? If you are so curious, I have a high deductible PPO through United health care. I specifically chose a high deductible because I am young and relatively healthy (apart from a few extra pounds that as of yet has not translated into systemic disease such as HTN or DM, and I blame you guys for keeping me stranded to this chair replying to the non-sense, so my extra pounds are your fault :lol: j/k) so I figured I could go about with the "extra risk" while at the same time taking advantage of health saving accounts for investments for my future.
#15128588
XogGyux wrote:Why do you want to know about my insurance?


Well you seem to be fine with telling strangers to move country so I figured we were in an open relationship. :D

If you are so curious, I have a high deductible PPO through United health care. I specifically chose a high deductible because I am young and relatively healthy


How much does it cost and what are you covered for?
#15128609
XogGyux wrote:You guys are the ones claiming you found paradise...


A lot of those starving Irish refugees (of which my mother's family were part) who arrived in Canada in the 1800s were the biggest defenders of the British Empire, once they got off the boats and buried their parents. Some Irish refugees went on to kill OTHER CULTURES for Britain, just like Britain had killed Irish culture and millions of Irish people.

The Irish refugees learned to love the culture that killed their own families and tried to completely destroy their culture and history... because... the killer culture fed them - right after starving most of them to death.

Starve-and then feed. Create a fan for life.

This is a much more accurate coming-of-age story than "I loved capitalism so I moved to the USA."

I don't know why you're so embarassed about admitting this. Anyone would do the same. You don't need to pretend to love the backwards colonialist system that "took you in" when you were hungry. The heroic country you celebrate is the one that made you hungry in the first place!
#15128634
skinster wrote:Well you seem to be fine with telling strangers to move country so I figured we were in an open relationship. :D

So... :?: If I tell you, that means you will follow through with moving to Cuba :lol: ? Doesn't seem like a good deal if I do something that you want meanwhile you don't do what I want :lol: .
I am used to dealing with people with dubious motives :lol: does not bother me a bit and I can be quite transparent.
However, to put things in perspective. Let me explain why I asked.
Why do you want to know about my insurance?
Maybe you are just curious... people can be curious, there is nothing wrong with that. But this is completely offtopic, it seems to me that if curiosity is the driving objective... you could just send me a private message? Specially since this could dwell into the realm of "personal" information and be a bit akward for some people to discuss openly.
Alternatively, maybe you are just looking for whatever offtopic point that you can get your hands off indiscriminately of its educative/discussion value because you simply want to deflect attention from Cuba's failure. This might be able to work for a short period of time... but this thread has 100+ pages with many hundred posts. A temporary distraction is not going to help much :knife: .
Finally there is my last theory, which I think might be the correct one. Perhaps you think that if you take me line by line of the "awful" aspects of our system in the US I would give you credit. The problem with that is... I already openly admit that the US system is not very good at all... If this is your goal, you are going through a lot of work to try to get me to admit something I have admitted many times before over the years! :lol: Seems quite counter productive. Keep in mind, that admitting Mike is a thief does not make Josh (who is also a thief and a murderer) a more attractive roomate. Similarly, admitting the US system is mediocre at best, terrible at worse does not mean Cuba's is good at all. Cuba's is worse, FAR worse.
Anyhow... with those points out of the way. I will entertain your questions regardless.

How much does it cost and what are you covered for?

This is not a straightfoward answer.
I can tell you my deductible is 3k and my maximum out of pocket is 6k. The numbers look twice as high in the event that I go "out of network". Preventative care/immunizations/screenings are 100% covered by my plan.
Now. The numbers are a bit off because this is a High deductible plan. In theory, I can use my HSA money to pay for those deductibles and out of pocket. Because those moneys are pre-tax, it is the equivalent of getting an automatic discount at the rate of my marginal tax on every $$ that I spend on healthcare until I run out of HSA money. So you can consider those numbers as being 2k deductible and 4k max out pocket.
My monthly cost for my insurance is $135.66/pay and I get paid on a monthly salary so this is $135.66 per month.
I have this setup because I am otherwise healthy as I said before. Other than my yearly bloodwork and vaccinations I do not expect to be having many health-related visits for the time being. It is more of a "catastrophic" insurance in case I were to be diagnosed with a cancer or be involved in an accident or something of the sort. As a result, I am making the calculated decision of for the next decade or so, assuming that my health situation does not change, I can save up with such a high deductible plan in order to take advantage of lower monthly premiums and the HSA account, which admittedly, I have no plans of using fully until my older age.
Since we are in this topic... Let's compare a little bit shall we? Currently, I am paying 135.66/month. My after-tax paycheck is about 18k so this represents 0.75% of my income. In a year that I use 100% of my max out-of pocket, the math would work out as: (netpay for 1 full year = 18k*12= 216000. total premium for 12 months -> 135.66*12 = $1627.92 and the max out of pocket would be 6.2k for that year. So total healthcare-related expenses for a year where I use my plan fully because of a healthcare catastrophe would be expected to be around 6.2k + 1627.92 = $7827.92. $7827.92 USD comes to be about 3.6% of my net take home salary.
Now... lets compare this to what my mother (also a doctor) was doing in cuba. Her salary was flat at $525 pesos/month. Her insurance premiums? $0. Now... lets say that she is really sick in cuba and had to go to the hospital. There are really no ambulances in cuba... and since it is an "emergency" she cannot just wait for the bus which might very well take 2h and she would be cramped on the trip. So lets say she takes one of those beautiful old-american car taxis. Back when we left cuba, they were $10 per trip (keep in mind these "trips" are generic, those taxis would not take you to the entrance of whatever destination you are going, they would just likely leave you at a high-transit interception and you just have to walk your way a few blocks to final destination, if you actually wanted to take a taxi that left you right outside of the hospital, the price might be a few times that price). So if she gets sick just 1 time in the year and she pays for taxi to the hospital $10, and from the hospital home another $10, thats already $20. Assuming no other cost what so ever... this would come up to 3.8% of her then salary. In other words, even though she is not paying for healthcare... she ended up paying a higher percentage of her salary than I currently do. And we are not even taking into account any medications that might be prescribed (which they might not even exist in the pharmacy) or the fact that the hospitals in cuba don't have the equipment/medications/etc that our hospitals in the US have. The reality is... the cuban system is NOT free. You just never get to see what it is costing you. :lol:
Last edited by XogGyux on 19 Oct 2020 23:32, edited 2 times in total.
#15128635
QatzelOk wrote:A lot of those starving Irish refugees (of which my mother's family were part) who arrived in Canada in the 1800s were the biggest defenders of the British Empire, once they got off the boats and buried their parents. Some Irish refugees went on to kill OTHER CULTURES for Britain, just like Britain had killed Irish culture and millions of Irish people.

The Irish refugees learned to love the culture that killed their own families and tried to completely destroy their culture and history... because... the killer culture fed them - right after starving most of them to death.

Starve-and then feed. Create a fan for life.

This is a much more accurate coming-of-age story than "I loved capitalism so I moved to the USA."

I don't know why you're so embarassed about admitting this. Anyone would do the same. You don't need to pretend to love the backwards colonialist system that "took you in" when you were hungry. The heroic country you celebrate is the one that made you hungry in the first place!


Sorry I don't know what to make out of this. It seems like something Salvador Dali would have painted, but instead, you decided to put it into words. Very bizarre.
#15128640
XogGyux wrote:This is not a straightfoward answer.


Clearly. :lol:

You should learn to use your space-bar button on your keyboard and there's no need to type me out an essay.

My monthly cost for my insurance is $135.66/pay and I get paid on a monthly salary so this is $135.66 per month.


This is for basically, nothing? :D

Your salary is 21K? Jesus, life must be hard for you to get by on that in the U.S.

In other words, even though she is not paying for healthcare... she ended up paying a higher percentage of her salary than I currently do.


If all she's paying for is her taxi to the hospital, she's definitely not paying anywhere near what you would have to if you had insurance that wasn't even the catastrophic shit you've got, which already costs a bunch before getting any treatment. I wouldn't bother getting that healthcare option if I were you, the stealth-tax from Obamacare for not having insurance might save you money instead.

Lol, you get taxed for not being able to afford health insurance in the U.S. :knife:
#15128650
skinster wrote:Clearly. :lol:

You should learn to use your space-bar button on your keyboard and there's no need to type me out an essay.

Let me get this straight. I humor you on your non-sensical, off-topic request, and you a criticizing the way I format my replies?
What can I say, I use my ipad and/or dictation software for some of my replies. If you don't like it, you can go to Cuba, there your access to the internet would be so limited that you might not be able to read what I write and it won't bother you :lol: .

If all she's paying for is her taxi to the hospital, she's definitely not paying anywhere near what you would have to if you had insurance that wasn't even the catastrophic shit you've got, which already costs a bunch before getting any treatment. I wouldn't bother getting that healthcare option if I were you, the stealth-tax from Obamacare for not having insurance might save you money instead.

Dude! I just did the math right in front of you. Compared apples to apples! And I was being generous... If you have to pay $5 USD for a short course of antibiotics in cuba (which btw, $5 is a super low unrealistic price, $20-50 seems more realistic but lets go with $5 right now) that would blow the math out of the water. When my grandfather got sick, my mother had to buy his meds in the US, had to buy the matress for ulcer prevention on the side and had to pay a person to take care of him at home. The cost of all of that for the 3 months that he was alive for, was well over $2k USD, a price that the vast majority of cubans cannot afford. Forget the 1% of the population, the 0.1% of cubans cannot get that much money on their own on a reliable fashion without any sort of highly illegal and attention-grabbing endeavor that would put them in jail.

Lol, you get taxed for not being able to afford health insurance in the U.S. :knife:

LOL don't get me started on taxes. We could fill another 100+ pages on this topic alone :lol:
And like I told you before. In the US... It might be expensive, it might even bankrupt you. But here is the little secret. Even bankrupt people have better quality of life and better quality of healthcare in this country than in Cuba. Do you know what is my most common admitting diagnosis to the hospital? Maybe you think it is a heart attack? What about pneumonia? nope. What about heart failure? Not even close. Perhaps it is renal failure? nope, uhm... car accident? Nope. My most common diagnosis is alcoholic intoxication. We admit more drunks to the hospital than any other diagnosis that you can think of. Do you think these that are dropped off by police at the hospital, often times found on the side of the road with an alcohol level 5-6x the legal limit, completely out of their mind, are paying their hospital bills? :lol: You fool! offcourse they are not. Do you think that they feel particularly burdened by this? No... they just add it to the pile of shit that they will never pay. Do they get denied any health care? Do you think I or any other doctor have ever come to the bedside and told them... you don't pay... I won't give you fluids, I won't give you medication to prevent withdrawl, I won't give you thiamine/folic acid to prevent you from getting brain damage? Do you think that happens? Ofcourse not! You guys are painting a non-existent terror movie while at the same time masturabting to a fantasy world that you think Cuba has created. Well... guess what, it is time to wake up.
I told you before and I'll repeat it a thousand times if necessary. Our system does suck... but Cuba's is FAR FAR worse. If the US is a nightmare... Cuba is a hellish night-terror. If the US is a thief... Cuba is a mass murderer-rapist.
#15128653
skinster wrote:
Your salary is 21K? Jesus, life must be hard for you to get by on that in the U.S.

No. I think your math is wrong. I told you, post tax it is 18k. Pretax is actually ~26k. IDK where 21k came from.
I did tell you I was transparent and given that me and my mother had the same profession it lent itself for an apples to apples comparison.

I didn't have this salary all my life. This is something relatively recent given I am a young physician. I did have to put 10+ years of my life on hold to attend to school, get myself into deep debt and work minimum-wage salary for many years to get to where I am. Another big difference as compared to Cuba... I couldn't do any of this in cuba :lol: .
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