End of maduro - hopefully. - Page 71 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15128488
skinster wrote:Since you support sanctions and are pretending you don't know what they include, I guess this makes you dumber than I thought. Good work. :D

But what you're responding to me was me pointing out how you do support things like regime change wars and wars via sanctions, while pretending to care about human rights. You're not fooling anyone, warmonger; you made this thread with dreams of regime change in Venezuela and...you lost. Sorry about that.


You are crazy if you think that it is possible to starve food wise a nation in the 21st century through sanctions :roll:

If it was the 13th century and US was the Monghol Empire under Genghis Khan sieging down Khwarazmian empire then may be you would have a point.
#15128491
Venezuela’s ability to fight COVID-19 is badly hamstrung by the 31 metric tons of gold stolen from its treasury
On October 5, 2020, the England and Wales Court of Appeal overturned a lower court decision from July that denied the Venezuelan government access to 31 metric tons of its gold stored in the Bank of London. No one denies that the gold belongs to the Venezuelan government. However, the bank refused to give the government of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro access to the gold; following the UK Foreign Office’s example, the bank said that the actual president of Venezuela was Juan Guaidó. Mr. Guaidó, unlike President Maduro, has not won an election to the presidency, nor is he in the line of succession to become president in any eventuality. The anointing of Mr. Guaidó came from the United States government, not the Venezuelan people; the UK Foreign Office and the lower courts agreed with Washington, while the England and Wales Court of Appeal relied for its decision on fact and logic.

The main finding of the Court of Appeal is that while the UK Foreign Office has stated that it does not recognize the government of President Maduro, it continues to conduct diplomatic affairs with the representatives of that government. Ambassador Rocío Del Valle Maneiro González presented her credentials to the Queen of England in 2015 and has for these past five years represented the government of President Maduro in the UK. The current British ambassador to Venezuela—Andrew Soper—presented his credentials to President Maduro on February 5, 2018; he remains in office in Caracas. Such basic diplomatic relations indicated to the Court of Appeal that President Maduro—in the eyes of the UK government—“does in fact exercise some or all of the powers of the President of Venezuela.”

Mr. Guaidó’s lawyer—Vanessa Neumann—said that the Venezuelan government wanted the $1.95 billion (in today’s gold prices) so that it could “illicitly finance itself.” But the Venezuelan government’s lawyer—Sarosh Zaiwalla—argued that these funds would be used by the government to break the chain of infection of COVID-19 and provide relief to a population struck by the U.S. unilateral sanctions and by the disruptions caused by the pandemic. The Central Bank of Venezuela (BCV) said that it wants to sell the gold, to have the funds paid to the United Nations Development Program (UNDP), and to allow the UNDP to assist in the government’s response to the pandemic. Even this channel via the UNDP has been rejected by Mr. Guaidó, by the UK government, and by Washington; there is no likely reason they would do this outside of a desire to punish the Venezuelan people in the midst of this pandemic.

Money for Medicines
Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research and the Instituto Simón Bolívar have been studying the social impact of these very harsh sanctions imposed by the U.S. administration since 2017. They have found that the primary and secondary sanctions have starved the Venezuelan people of the means to conduct basic commerce: to sell their oil and to buy food, medicines, and educational materials (primary sanctions directly prevent citizens and firms of the sanctioning country from having any dealings with the country being sanctioned; secondary sanctions prevent a third party—either a country or a firm—from dealing with the sanctioned country). Tens of thousands of Venezuelans have died unnecessary deaths because of the denial of trade in medicines and medical equipment; this has challenged the already fragile system during the pandemic. To allow these unilateral sanctions by the United States, and its pursuit of regime change in Venezuela, to define the way Venezuela can fight the virus and the disease is shocking. “Collective penalties,” says the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949), “are prohibited.”

What does the Venezuelan government wish to buy with the $1.95 billion that would be turned over to the UNDP? According to research by Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research and the Instituto Simón Bolívar, the bulk of the funds—$600 million—is planned to go toward the purchase of medicines for 400,000 people in hospitals, for obstetric medicines for 550,000 pregnant women, and medicines for the 243 community pharmacies. Then, $450 million is planned to go toward disposable medical supplies for 400,000 surgeries, for 245 health centers, and for 3,000 pacemakers. Finally, $250,000 has been planned for the supply of reagents for laboratories (for hematology and serology), and for spare parts for various kinds of medical equipment (including radiation therapy equipment). This is how the Venezuelan government—in collusion with the UNDP—would like to “illicitly finance itself.”

In May, three UN special rapporteurs wrote that in Venezuela, “hospitals are reporting a shortage of medical supplies, protective equipment and medicine.” These are exactly the materials on the list from the Venezuelan government to buy from the proceeds of the sale of the 31 metric tons of gold. These experts—Olivier De Schutter (extreme poverty and human rights), Léo Heller (water and sanitation), and Kombou Boly Barry (education)—said, “especially in light of the coronavirus pandemic, the United States should immediately lift blanket sanctions, which are having a severe impact on the human rights of the Venezuelan people.”

The independent research from Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research and the Instituto Simón Bolívar concurs with the opinions of these UN experts; the U.S.-driven sanctions have negatively impacted the capacity of the Venezuelan people to thrive and exercise their human rights. The unilateral sanctions must be lifted. Short of that, we believe that Venezuela’s 31 metric tons of gold in the Bank of London must be sold, the proceeds delivered to the UNDP, and the medical supplies urgently shipped to Venezuela. Anything other than that is a crime against the Venezuelan people.
https://mronline.org/2020/10/14/venezue ... -treasury/
#15128511
skinster wrote:bla


How is that food related again?
#15128518
skinster wrote:Weird that you could spell 'food' but missed that word in the article above where it's in bold.


You are just posting random things at this point. Sanctions are not preventing Venezuela from feeding themselves or buying food.
#15128521
JohnRawls wrote:You are just posting random things at this point. Sanctions are not preventing Venezuela from feeding themselves or buying food.

And the problems started before most of the sanctions were even imposed. They were having problems since 2014.
#15128523
Random American wrote:And the problems started before most of the sanctions were even imposed. They were having problems since 2014.


I have said that to Skinster many, many times. She just ignores it.
#15128551
Random American wrote:Because Maduro is ideologically aligned with her. Like most other socialists, she expresses solidarity with their regimes.


IMHO usually the true test is when the final collapse / annihilation comes.
#15128554
Random American wrote:And the problems started before most of the sanctions were even imposed. They were having problems since 2014.


That's when their problems were noticeable (although it actually began in late 2013). The very first signs of trouble began in 2009.
#15128577
LOL, still ignoring U.S. war on Venezuela. I suppose this is typical of Americans, you don't pay much attention to the lives you destroy in the various countries you make war on.

As for Maduro and co, that's the democratically-elected government of Venezuela. It makes no difference if I love them or hate them, the people of Venezuela voted for them and voted for Chavismo.
#15128583
skinster wrote:LOL, still ignoring U.S. war on Venezuela. I suppose this is typical of Americans, you don't pay much attention to the lives you destroy in the various countries you make war on.

As for Maduro and co, that's the democratically-elected government of Venezuela. It makes no difference if I love them or hate them, the people of Venezuela voted for them and voted for Chavismo.


That is also the problem that there has been no fair election in Venezuela for a while now. I can't believe that you didn't notice the protests, the killings, the torture, the UN reports and Maduros attempts to supplant the parliament and the supreme court after the opposition won the parliamentary election. :|
#15128589
Maduro's government elected by the people, and that's why he remains in power. Your gish-gallop post is no evidence for anything. And yes, I did see some of the protests, I posted a documentary series about what was happening on the ground, something you ignored because you trust imperialist dogshit like the NYT and BBC when it comes to issues like these.

And lol that UN report you cried about hysterically a week or so ago was quickly ignored, after it was revealed who was behind it and mainly, people who weren't in the country. :lol:
#15128611
skinster wrote:Maduro's government elected by the people, and that's why he remains in power. Your gish-gallop post is no evidence for anything. And yes, I did see some of the protests, I posted a documentary series about what was happening on the ground, something you ignored because you trust imperialist dogshit like the NYT and BBC when it comes to issues like these.

And lol that UN report you cried about hysterically a week or so ago was quickly ignored, after it was revealed who was behind it and mainly, people who weren't in the country. :lol:

Yea, that's why he forced through an unpopular constituent assembly. He's that popular. :roll:

skinster wrote:LOL, still ignoring U.S. war on Venezuela. I suppose this is typical of Americans, you don't pay much attention to the lives you destroy in the various countries you make war on.

As for Maduro and co, that's the democratically-elected government of Venezuela. It makes no difference if I love them or hate them, the people of Venezuela voted for them and voted for Chavismo.

"B-but evil U.S.." I guess that's typical of you socialists. Ignoring facts just because that government is anti-American.
#15128614
If Maduro is as unpopular as the regime-change warriors claim, why is the U.S. doing everything it can to sabotage the upcoming election, including bullying the EU which accepted Maduro's election into also not recognising it?
#15128623
skinster wrote:If Maduro is as unpopular as the regime-change warriors claim, why is the U.S. doing everything it can to sabotage the upcoming election, including bullying the EU which accepted Maduro's election into also not recognising it?

You really expect me to believe that is an impartial source. And the U.S. getting pissed off at its allies for recognizing an "election" doesn't really prove anything other than the U.S. wants to intervene with Europe being more reluctant, a fact that I'm not disputing. Europe recognizing the election does not mean it was truly democratic either as there could be political reasons for doing so.

Is the U.S. a force for ultimate good? No. But that doesn't make Maduro popular. It's also not unreasonable to believe that those elections won't be fair. I mean, an unpopular constituent assembly was forced through, the numbers of voters were inflated, and colectivos act like government thugs. There's also the arrest of opposition leaders. There are plenty of objective signs that it's not truly a democracy.

We "regime changed" Iraq, and yes it was a stupid thing to do, but that doesn't change the fact that Saddam was a dictator, just like in this case. Again, I'm saying Maduro is bad, not that the U.S. is good.
#15128627
Random American wrote:You really expect me to believe that is an impartial source.


Ben Cardin and Narco Rubio sent a letter to the EU asking them to stop engaging in dialogue with Venezuela and refrain from monitoring the country’s December 6 legislative elections. Are you saying these senators are lying? Rubio also asked Trump to militarily invade Venezuela last month. These guys are psychopaths.

And the U.S. getting pissed off at its allies for recognizing an "election" doesn't really prove anything other than the U.S. wants to intervene with Europe being more reluctant, a fact that I'm not disputing.


So then you accept the letter to the EU is legit. :lol:

What it does prove, is the U.S. is aware that Maduro is likely to win. If it thought Maduro was unpopular, they'd let the vote go ahead and expect a positive outcome for themselves.

Is the U.S. a force for ultimate good? No. But that doesn't make Maduro popular.


The U.S. is a force for evil, if I'm to be frank, given all its death and destruction, including at home. But Maduro being popular is unrelated to that, and still true.

It's also not unreasonable to believe that those elections won't be fair.


We're not talking about the U.S., we're talking about Venezuela. There's no way to win by fraud in elections in Venezuela; people vote with their fingerprints under observation from people from all over the world (like what has happened previously in Venezuela and just happened over the weekend in Bolivia).

There's also the arrest of opposition leaders.


Like who?

There are plenty of objective signs that it's not truly a democracy.


I'd say that's more true of America.

We "regime changed" Iraq, and yes it was a stupid thing to do, but that doesn't change the fact that Saddam was a dictator, just like in this case.


Saddam was your dictator, installed by your government, funded by the CIA for many years before that.
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