End of maduro - hopefully. - Page 72 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15128636
I like how you omit the constituent assembly part from the quote. It just so happens to be the strongest piece of evidence that Maduro isn't popular. Again, "what about the U.S." doesn't refute anything, despite the shady aspects of my government.
#15128642
Yeah I ignored that because some of you guys just throw around words thinking they mean anything, when it often looks like nothing. If you have any argument of that with a source to back up with so I have a clearer understanding of what you're yapping about, let me know.

But speaking of the constituent assembly.
.
#15128647
skinster wrote:Yeah I ignored that because some of you guys just throw around words thinking they mean anything, when it often looks like nothing. If you have any argument of that with a source to back up with so I have a clearer understanding of what you're yapping about, let me know.

But speaking of the constituent assembly.
.


Did I just read privatizations in that Tweet?
#15128657
You sound like you just found out, so far into this thread, that aspects of the economy are privatized in Venezuela, despite it being mentioned before.

Anyway, why the U.S. is interested in Venezuela.
#15128710
The Popular Constituent Assembly.
AP News wrote:A June survey by Venezuelan polling firm Datanalisis said just 23 percent favor the constituent assembly. Only 19 percent said they thought a new constitution would “guarantee the peace of stability of the country,” as Maduro has asserted. Nearly half said they believe the purpose of the assembly is to ensure Maduro stays in power.

Earlier this month, more than 7.5 million Venezuelans voted in an unofficial opposition referendum rejecting the constitution rewrite.

But those numbers do not mean Venezuelans are unlikely to show up at polling stations Sunday. Aside from government loyalists, groups of state workers and government organization are being mobilized and pressured to cast ballots.

Luis Vicente Leon, president of Datanalsis, said that because the government has access to data showing who does and does not vote, many people are likely to feel obligated to participate or risk losing their jobs in a country with severe food shortages and triple-digit inflation.

“If this was a free election, without pressure, about a third of the number that participated in the popular consult would vote,” he said, referring to the opposition referendum.

Oh, it doesn't paint the socialist government in a good light? It must be imperialist propaganda! :roll:
#15128726
skinster wrote:^ People in this thread acting like the U.S. isn't making war on Venezuela, it's wild. :lol:

What choice do they have?

If they want to take an anti-Maduro position, they are also forced to ignore the killing and pillaging that will occur the minute the socialists are out of power.

Having an opinion that requires this kind of blindness... is only necessary if your lifestyle is atrocity-dependent.

wikileaks wrote:What is the #1 U.S. interest in Venezuela? If the classified history of the U.S. State Department is a guide, oil.

Yes, China has great oil trade with Venezuela and Iran, and if the USA can destroy or take over these two countries, they can "sanction" China just like the USA sanctionned Japan with a blocade that made Pearl Harbor necessary.

Related article:
The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discretely Internationalized It
"...more than 10,000 Nazis were able to immigrate to the United States in the post-war period (at least 700 official members of the Nazi party had been allowed into the U.S. in the 1930s, while Jewish refugees were being turned away)..."
#15128730
QatzelOk wrote:What choice do they have?

If they want to take an anti-Maduro position, they are also forced to ignore the killing and pillaging that will occur the minute the socialists are out of power.

Having an opinion that requires this kind of blindness... is only necessary if your lifestyle is atrocity-dependent.

And the socialists pillage and kill with their collectivos and other groups and their nations also commit atrocities. It's not like your side or people are any better.
#15128734
Random American wrote:And the socialists pillage and kill with their collectivos and other groups and their nations also commit atrocities. It's not like your side or people are any better.

I don't have a side.

I'm just a single human being like you are.

"My side" is the democratic choice of the people, and I alway hope that this decision is made from the vantage point of protecting the collective good, and spreading knowledge.

Saying that "everyone is the same" is an example of something that comes from an education that comes more from propaganda than from books or theory or honest converstations with a wide variety of humans. On TV and in Hollywood, you're right - they're all just actors in front of stage props.

But try to leave TV for a moment and notice the "differences" between various social paradigms.

Try.

But you might not succeed: money knows how to make very powerful propaganda.
#15128736
@QatzelOk
The propaganda I get is different than "everyone is the same." It is U.S. good, anti-U.S. bad. I'm not someone who blindly loves what my country does, but I'm not going to support Maduro either. He certainly doesn't have the people behind him like what propaganda from Russia or China would have me believe, even though I know my country wants oil, as they want that oil too.

I genuinely think that a free election in Venezuela wouldn't elect Guaidó nor would it elect Maduro. And I'm not pretending that my nation is a vice-less defender of liberty.
#15128780
FAO: The Blockade Against Venezuela is "Unacceptable"
The UN organization's representative in the country expressed his rejection of unilateral coercive measures.

The use of a blockade is so that a nation does not have access to produce its own food is unacceptable, affirmed this Friday the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) representative in Venezuela, Rolf Hackbart.

"It is unacceptable that the mechanisms of the blockade, from foreign financial systems, are used to prevent a nation from accessing food, to produce the food in their country for their people," expressed Hackbart in an interview with a local radio station.

The official indicated that the prevalence of undernourishment in Venezuela from 2017 to 2019 is close to 30 percent of the population; and said that it is due to the "economic emergency through which the country has been going for several years."

"We need more public programs, national, regional, and municipal government programs for food production, but for that, we must have the freedom to import inputs and food," he said.

The FAO representative stated that Venezuela faces "enormous challenges" due to the blockade, and therefore requires assistance, as do as other countries.

Hackbart said that FAO has several projects in that South American country aimed at strengthening the productive sector's capacities at the national level and support for sustainable agricultural development to achieve food sovereignty.
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/FAO ... ialnetwork


Random American wrote:Oh, it doesn't paint the socialist government in a good light? It must be imperialist propaganda! :roll:


It's an opposition poll, if you knew anything about Luis Vicente Leon. What a shock they don't view Maduro's government positively. :lol: There's a reason his poll service is the most cited in Western media, because it serves the interests of the opposition and the U.S.

Leon's polling firm blamed U.S. sanctions on Maduro rather than the U.S which imposed them, and its polling is often found to be way off from its claims, e.g. they claimed Random Guaido had a 55% approval rating :D on June 9th of last year and overestimated the opposition turnout in the 2017 election. Independent journalist Joe Emersberger reports regularly on him and Datanalysis.

QatzelOk wrote:What choice do they have?

If they want to take an anti-Maduro position, they are also forced to ignore the killing and pillaging that will occur the minute the socialists are out of power.

Having an opinion that requires this kind of blindness... is only necessary if your lifestyle is atrocity-dependent.


But some of these posters are actually fine with the war(s) they're for, it's just odd they pretend they're not happening and then we remind them they're happening and they switch back to BUT MADURO!, playing ignorant to all the crimes they defend, such as sanctions that are killing tens of thousands of Venezuelans.

I guess this is some of what Michael Parenti talks about, about how U.S. imperialism isn't a thing to most Westerners because the corporate media they consume rarely refers to it. Their media is only there to brainwash them into supporting these wars - that they benefit nothing from - and they think their support for war(s) is something they thought up all by themselves, rather than being brainwashed into it.


Random American wrote:but I'm not going to support Maduro either.


Thing is, who gives a fuck if you support Maduro? That's for Venezuelans to decide.

He certainly doesn't have the people behind him


He won 67% of the vote in the last election and this is why the U.S. is already demanding the EU not recognise an election. Why else would they? Venezuelan officials have again invited observers from everywhere to come watch the election process take place, including from America. But America is not interested in anything Venezuelan besides its oil.

Your ilk have been crying about outside meddling of your last election for the last 4 years, but forget that instantly during threads like these. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't dangerous.

even though I know my country wants oil, as they want that oil too.


This should be your starting point and ending point and you should oppose this attempted theft. Unless thieving and mass murder is ok to you. Is it?

I genuinely think that a free election in Venezuela wouldn't elect Guaidó nor would it elect Maduro.


But it already has elected Maduro more than once, so I'm not sure what you're basing this information on, beyond some feelings you have.
#15128812
skinster wrote:Thing is, who gives a toss if you support Maduro? That's for Venezuelans to decide.

That people who live in a country that elected the last series of dogshit presidents even dare to *give their opinion* on how other countries should govern themselves...

People from non-Western nations should look at "the result" of our "democratic" process, and learn from us. But not imitate us. Learn from our deadly mistakes so that you NEVER elect the kind of ass-kissing mercenaries that we do.
#15128819
skinster wrote:He won 67% of the vote in the last election and this is why the U.S. is already demanding the EU not recognise an election. Why else would they? Venezuelan officials have again invited observers from everywhere to come watch the election process take place, including from America. But America is not interested in anything Venezuelan besides its oil.

Because there's no possibility of election fuckery! Honestly, should we accept that Kim Jong Un is popular too? He won his country's elections! Also, this is a topic about Maduro, not the U.S. and you not getting that is not my problem.
#15128825
Random American wrote:Because there's no possibility of election fuckery! Honestly, should we accept that Kim Jong Un is popular too? He won his country's elections!


If you think there was evidence of election fraud, prove it with a bit more than your boring opinion. The way people vote in Venezuela is using their fingerprints and ID. Both are necessary. Venezuela also invites observers into the country for the election, as they've done for the December election.

Also, this is a topic about Maduro, not the U.S. and you not getting that is not my problem.


This topic is also about the U.S. since it's the U.S. that's at war with Venezuela.

I am :lol: that you post this in a response where I posted about how Americans pretend their imperialism doesn't exist. Thanks for proving my point as well as your own ignorance. :lol:
#15128832
skinster wrote:If you think there was evidence of election fraud, prove it with a bit more than your boring opinion. The way people vote in Venezuela is using their fingerprints and ID. Both are necessary. Venezuela also invites observers into the country for the election, as they've done for the December election.



This topic is also about the U.S. since it's the U.S. that's at war with Venezuela.

I am :lol: that you post this in a response where I posted about how Americans pretend their imperialism doesn't exist. Thanks for proving my point as well as your own ignorance. :lol:

Whatever tankie. I did offer proof, but you dismissed the source and I see no reason why you won't do it again if I offer you more. You've made it quite clear you will only accept pro-Maduro sources, which is hardly the opposite of "ignorance. " :)
#15128836
Random American wrote:Whatever tankie.


When you can't prove anything, that's where we get to. :lol:

It doesn't have to be a pro-government source. But sharing from an opposition source which has been repeatedly incorrect doesn't prove your point. They claimed Random Guaido had 55% approval rating! :lol:
#15128887
skinster wrote:You sound like you just found out, so far into this thread, that aspects of the economy are privatized in Venezuela, despite it being mentioned before.

Anyway, why the U.S. is interested in Venezuela.


So what does this document proove? You don't even understand that this document is from 1978 :roll:

Nowadays US is self sufficient in oil. A lot of time has passed since that time. I am not sure why you keep posting a document that is 40+ years old.
#15128891
JohnRawls wrote:So what does this document proove? You don't even understand that this document is from 1978 :roll:

Nowadays US is self sufficient in oil. A lot of time has passed since that time. I am not sure why you keep posting a document that is 40+ years old.

Because support of Maduro is based on "U.S. bad." It's whataboutism.
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