Evo Morales Gets Bounced; Seeks Asylum in Mexico - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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JohnRawls wrote:No hard feelings Pot, but I really remembered this post and it kinda shows the mind of people like you and @skinster. You blame the right for being warmongers or anti-democratic but here we are, right wing government doing fair elections, conceding power and protecting the constitution. Oh how wrong the both of you were.


How wrong we were? :lol:

JohnRawls has no self-awareness. He has the same kind of chutzpah as the MSM here:
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Glenn Greenwald wrote:Bolivians Return Evo Morales’s Party to Power One Year After a U.S.-Applauded Coup
Right-wing forces cheered by the U.S. tried to destroy one of Latin America’s most vibrant democracies. Voters just restored it.

In November 2019, Bolivia’s three-term President Evo Morales was forced under threat of police and military violence to flee to Mexico, just weeks after he was declared the winner of the October presidential election that would have sent him to his fourth term. Installed in his place was an unelected right-wing coup regime, led by self-declared “interim President” Jeanine Áñez, who promptly presided over a military massacre that killed dozens of Morales’s Indigenous supporters and then granted immunity to all the soldiers involved. U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo at the time cheered the coup by citing subsequently debunked claims of election fraud by the Organization of American States, or OAS, and urging “a truly democratic process representative of the people’s will.”

But after the Áñez regime twice postponed scheduled elections this year, Bolivians went to the polls on Sunday. They delivered a resounding victory to presidential candidate Luis Arce, Morales’s former finance minister and the candidate from his Movement Toward Socialism, or MAS, Party. Although official results are still being counted, exit polls from reputable firms show Arce with a blowout victory — over 50 percent against a centrist former president and a far-right coup leader — and Áñez herself conceded that MAS has won: “We do not yet have an official count, but from the data we have, Mr. Arce and [MAS Vice Presidential candidate] Mr. Choquehuanca have won the election. I congratulate the winners and ask them to govern with Bolivia and democracy in mind.”

It is difficult to remember the last time a U.S.-approved military coup in Latin America failed so spectacularly. Even with the U.S.-dominated OAS’s instantly dubious claims of electoral fraud, nobody disputed that Morales received more votes in last October’s election than all other candidates (the only question raised by the OAS was whether his margin of victory was sufficient to win on the first round and avoid a run-off).

Despite Morales’s election win, the Bolivian police and then military made clear to Morales that neither he, his family, nor his closest allies would be safe unless he immediately left the country, as Morales detailed in an interview I conducted with him just weeks after he was driven into exile in Mexico City. In that interview, Morales blamed not only the U.S. for giving the green light to right-wing coup leaders but also attributed the coup to Western anger over his decision to sell some of the country’s valuable lithium supply to China rather than to the West.

After 12 years in office, Morales was not free of controversy or critics. As the first elected Indigenous leader of Bolivia, even some of his core supporters grew wary of what they regarded as his growing reliance on quasi-autocratic tactics in order to govern. Several of his most prominent supporters — both in Bolivia and in South America — were critical of his decision to secure judicial permission to seek a fourth term despite a constitutional term-limits provision of two terms. Even Morales’s long-time close Brazilian ally, former President Lula da Silva — who correctly predicted in a 2019 interview with me that “you can be certain that if Evo Morales runs for president, he’ll win in Bolivia” — nonetheless called Morales’s pursuit of a fourth term a “mistake.”

But none of those criticisms changed a central, unavoidable fact: More Bolivians voted for Morales to be their president in 2019 than any other candidate. And in a democracy, that is supposed to be decisive; for those purporting to believe in democracy, that should be the end of the matter. That is why Lula, in his Guardian interview shortly after the coup where he criticized Morales’s bid for a fourth term, nonetheless emphasized the far more important point: “what they did with him was a crime. It was a coup – this is terrible for Latin America.”

And whatever critiques one can legitimately voice about Morales — it is hard to imagine any leader ruling for more than a decade without alienating some supporters and making mistakes — there is no question that Morales’s presidency, by almost every metric, was a success. After decades of instability in the country, he ushered in a stable and thriving democracy, presided over economic growth that even western financial institutions praised, and worked to ensure a far more equitable distribution of those resources than ever before, particularly to the country’s long-oppressed Indigenous minority and its rural farmers. That success is what was destroyed, on purpose, when the Bolivian presidency was decided in 2019 not democratically but by force.

The West’s reaction to the 2019 Bolivian coup featured all of its classic propaganda tropes. Western officials, media outlets, and think tank writers invoked the standard Orwellian inversion of heralding a coup of any democratically elected leader they do not like as a “victory for democracy.” In this warped formula, it is not the U.S.-supported coup plotters but the overthrown democratically elected leader who is the “threat to democracy.”

Depicting U.S.-supported coups as democratic and democratically elected leaders disliked by the U.S. as “dictators” has been a staple of U.S. foreign policy propaganda for decades. That is the rubric under which the Obama administration and its Secretary of State John Kerry somehow celebrated one of the world’s worst despots, Egyptian Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, as “restoring democracy” following the brutal military coup he carried out.

But thanks to Sunday’s stunning rebuke in Bolivia, the standard tactics failed. Ever since Morales’s election victory almost exactly one year ago today, Bolivians never stopped marching, protesting, risking their liberty and their lives — even in the middle of a pandemic — to demand their rights of democracy and self-governance. Leading up to the election, the coup regime and right-wing factions in the military were menacingly vowing — in response to polls universally showing MAS likely to win — that they would do anything to prevent the return to power of Morales’s party.

At least as of now, though, it looks as though the margin of victory delivered to MAS by the Bolivian people was so stunning, so decisive, that there are few options left for the retrograde forces — in Bolivia, Washington, and Brussels — which tried to destroy the country’s democracy. Anyone who believes in the fundamentals of democracy, regardless of ideology, should be cheering the Bolivians who sacrificed so much to restore their right of self-rule and hoping that the stability and prosperity they enjoyed under Morales expands even further under his first democratically elected successor.
https://theintercept.com/2020/10/19/bol ... uded-coup/


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Oxymoron wrote:These leftists scum will be removed soon I can hope. The people are so dumb to keep voting these leftist pieces of shit into office.
will they ever learn?

It's not over until it's over.

Yes, the socialists have regained their power through democracy. But Oxy, there are lots of money-seeking young men in the USA who would love the chance to overthrow a government in South America in exchange for a free electric car.

Maybe you're one of them.

I'm not, and it was fantastic to get some good news this evening. Thanks for "breaking the story" skinster!
#15128786
So strange how many posters there were in the first handful of pages of this thread and as soon as Morales gets un-Bounced, everyone disappears. It reminds me of the regime-changer warriors like Rugoz who supported war on Libya and then disappeared as soon as the country turned into a failed state with slave markets. He was in here supporting the coup last year too. These people never learn anything and will never learn anything.

Back on topic:
Bolivia Shows Why Imperialists Work To Keep Populations Propagandized
Bolivia has reversed the US-backed coup which saw its leftist president Evo Morales ousted from the lithium-rich nation after a landslide victory last year. Another landslide victory for a previous member of Morales’ cabinet named Luis Arce has restored power to the Movement Toward Socialism (MAS) party after a year of rule by the coup regime.

Contrary to what a recent Guardian headline asserts this was not a “stunning comeback” for MAS but a widely anticipated repudiation of the false claims that were spun by western narrative managers that Morales had rigged the election last year in a dictatorial assault upon democracy. Two landslide victories in as many years is neither “stunning” nor a “comeback”, it’s just the people decisively making their will known two times.

Bolivia is still not in the clear; the US-centralized empire still has plenty of other avenues of attack through which to sabotage the will of the Bolivian people, and we may be certain that we will see them rolled out in the coming years if that empire still stands. But people are right to celebrate the fact that its preferred and primary avenue of attack has been thwarted.

Which is a good illustration of why imperialists pour so much energy into using propaganda to manipulate what people think and do. If you can’t manipulate people into supporting your actions, they’ll just wind up undoing all your handiwork. A coup was undone yesterday in Bolivia, a coup was undone in Venezuela in 2002, and coups will continue to be undone every time the people have the power to enact their will and can’t be propagandized or brutalized away from using it.

The great elephant in the room, around which so much of the behavior of establishment power revolves, is that there are many more ordinary human beings than there are sociopathic dominators trying to exploit them. This fact rarely enters the minds of the rank-and-file citizenry, but for the manipulators responsible for engineering the continuation and expansion of the imperialist oligarchic status quo, it is always at the center of their attention.

The powerful fear the people. Always have, always will. They are at all times acutely aware that there’s not actually anything stopping the public from using the power of their numbers to take back everything their rulers stole from them and doing whatever they like to their former oppressors. We’re like a giant the size of a mountain who is in an abusive relationship with a tiny little man; we might not think too much about how we could squash him like an insect whenever we like, but he most certainly does.

And that’s why the manipulators responsible for keeping the empire running work all day every day ensuring the people never awaken to their true power. That they never realize they’re being worked like slaves to support the obscene planet-destroying excesses of plutocrats while struggling just to survive. That they never realize their value and resources are being funneled into a war machine which murders people just like themselves on the other side of the world to ensure geostrategic domination which benefits nobody but the most powerful. So we don’t realize what they are doing, and realize that we have every ability to stop them.

They do not pour vast fortunes into manufacturing the consent of the governed because it’s fun for them. They don’t buy up narrative control in the form of media outlets, think tanks, NGOs, political influence and advertising in collaboration with opaque government agencies because they’ve got nothing better to do. They work so hard to manufacture consent because they need it.

So don’t give them your consent. Refuse to be propagandized. Refuse to let your countrymen be propagandized. Work to awaken people to their lies. Work to awaken people to their true power.
http://thealtworld.com/caitlin_johnston ... pagandized








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QatzelOk wrote:It's not over until it's over.

Yes, the socialists have regained their power through democracy. But Oxy, there are lots of money-seeking young men in the USA who would love the chance to overthrow a government in South America in exchange for a free electric car.

Maybe you're one of them.

I'm not, and it was fantastic to get some good news this evening. Thanks for "breaking the story" skinster!

I actually want a gas guzzler Pickup truck with large Long Horns :lol:
#15128990
This is interesting:

TV6 wrote:Elections In Bolivia: “It Will Be My Government”, Luis Arce Marks Distances With Evo Morales
NEWSWORLD
Adam Horton
October 20, 2020

“IF YOU WANT TO HELP US, YOU WILL BE VERY WELCOME, BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU WILL BE IN GOVERNMENT,” HE SAID IN AN INTERVIEW WITH THE BBC.
The virtual winner of the presidential elections in Bolivia, Luis Arce, tried this Tuesday to mark a distance with his political mentor, Evo Morales. “If you want to help us, you will be very welcome, but it does not mean that you will be in government. It will be my government“, has underlined.

In the absence of confirmation of the official results, the first projections suggest that Arce will return political power to the Movement for Socialism (MAS), a year after Morales had to resign for the doubts about transparency of the elections.

The former Minister of the Economy stressed in an interview with the British BBC network that Sunday’s elections show “very clearly” that the MAS is “majority” in Bolivia and that, therefore, in the 2019 elections “there was no fraud”, but rather the political right he hatched “a coup.”

Looking forward to his future mandate, however, he aspires to “build bridges “, Although precisely the first weeks may be marked by doubts about the possible return of Morales to Bolivia – he currently resides in Argentina – and by the role that he will play in the future, given that will not hold any political office His candidacy for senator was annulled.

Maple has refused to clarify when could come backr Morales to Bolivia, despite the fact that he himself promised to facilitate his return if he achieved the Presidency, and has defended instead a “renewal” within the MAS, in which the former president for now could only “help.” In this sense, he has left in the hands of the former president the role he could occupy in this new scenario.

At the policy level, Arce has promised to turn the page to the “neoliberal model” implemented in the last year, under the baton of the interim president, Jeanine Áñez.

Thus, he has promised to return to the model that is “more on the social side”, since he considers that the coronavirus pandemic has made it more evident “that the economy is not doing well.”

Arce, the architect of the economic policies in Morales’ last stage in power, has also defended the MAS’s ability to fight corruption, alleging that, unlike the current Executive, in the previous one those who committed an irregularity were accountable to the Justice.

According to the quick count, Arce prevailed in the first round with a comfortable 53 percent, against his rival Carlos Mesa, with 30.8%.

The official count progresses slowly and stumbling. It was supposed that this Tuesday the final result would be announced.

The recount process barely exceeded 50 percent on Tuesday, which did not prevent Arce from proclaiming his victory on Monday and the leader of the opposition, Carlos Mesa, from acknowledging his defeat.

The Supreme Electoral Tribunal (TSE) of Bolivia also announced on Tuesday the temporary suspension of the website in which the data of the vote count have been published in order to improve its capacity in the face of the excess of registered consultations.

Source: agencies


It seems MAS may dump Evo Morales, just like Lenin Moreno dumped Rafael Correa.
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skinster tweet wrote:Bolivia will restore diplomatic relations with Cuba, Venezuela and Iran, said President-elect Luis Arce in an interview with EFE. He will also re-establish good relations with China & Russia.

This is one of the big reasons that USA supported the coup: to destroy the cordial relations between nations that aren't absorbed into the empire.

How petty and ideological to have cut these ties in the first place, Fascist Coup Government.
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Random American wrote:I don't really know what to think of Evo Morales' leadership in Bolivia. I've read things claiming he was a dictator and a tyrant but the accusations against him are vague and I can't really seem to find any evidence to support them, unlike with Maduro.


I don't like him but he can actually claim he managed to end several of his administrations. Most Bolivian Presidents can't.

I think that's a major reason for the economic growth during his time. But it was also a reason for his downfall.
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wat0n wrote:It's in the Spanish site:


The original website you shared reported it slightly differently and had no sources. I looked at the BBC website and found nothing. What's interesting is that it isn't reported in the English BBC since it would probably ease the pain of all those in the West who are upset the fascists lost the power they stole.

Either way, it doesn't matter if Morales isn't in government any more, MaS are. Some people tend to get stuck with the idea that X leader = X country and that's usually due to regime-change propaganda, like how Maduro = Venezuela. Even if Maduro were to step down and another within his party replace him, that wouldn't matter either, because the vast majority of el pueblo would be leading anyway. Did you celebrate this victory over fascism, wat0n?
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skinster wrote:The original website you shared reported it slightly differently and had no sources. I looked at the BBC website and found nothing. What's interesting is that it isn't reported in the English BBC since it would probably ease the pain of all those in the West who are upset the fascists lost the power they stole.


No worries, I also looked for it in the English site and didn't find it. The Spanish site's interview is quite explicit about him aiming for independence from Evo Morales, because they pressed him on the matter.

skinster wrote:Either way, it doesn't matter if Morales isn't in government any more, MaS are. Some people tend to get stuck with the idea that X leader = X country and that's usually due to regime-change propaganda, like how Maduro = Venezuela. Even if Maduro were to step down and another within his party replace him, that wouldn't matter either, because the vast majority of el pueblo would be leading anyway. Did you celebrate this victory over fascism, wat0n?


I take neither side.

Evo Morales did try to perpetuate himself in power, whether you like it or not. He did refuse to listen to a referendum he called himself to allow himself run for a third election, and vacated it after using MAS' control over the Bolivian judiciary (itself enabled by the Bolivian Constitution he played a pivotal role drafting) to vacate parts of the Constitution. Let's not even talk about the corruption of the last years of his last tenure, there were a few scandals regarding the businesses between the Bolivian Government and some state-owned Chinese corporations that were not well regarded among the Bolivian population, these two things alienated the very same core non-indigenous support that helped Evo Morales govern - leaving him only with identity politics to base his government on. I know this because some Bolivian friends told me so. As such, I'm not surprised he was kicked out last year (and it was a coup, let's state things as they are, but it was a coup against a corrupted party that had tramped on the country's Constitution - which it had itself written for the most part - once the Constitution began to work against its interests).

On the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, Evo Morales and MAS do have something going for them: They were one of the most stable governments in Bolivia, ever, and if they will make sure Evo Morales is kept out for a while then it will be the best for Bolivian democracy. I also think the fact that the opposition to Morales seems to be honest about the election results and will let MAS begin its term is a good thing. Arce seems to be more moderate than Evo Morales (and a lot less willing to engage in experiments like the Chavistas are) so I won't be surprised if they are not as to the left as under Evo Morales.

So, while I hardly agree with most of MAS' platform, I also think Bolivia is a somewhat special case given the history of the country and so far they seem to be the political party best suited to at least give it some sort of stable government to begin with, it may not be good but a mediocre stable government is better than an unstable and dysfunctional one. I also think that's why MAS won, and I think it's a good development they voted for the party rather than the person as they did when Evo Morales was elected for the first time.
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