Edward Snowden gets permanent residency in Russia - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15129485
Moscow (CNN)Former US National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden has been given permanent residency in Russia, his lawyer Anatoly Kucherena told state-run news agency RIA Novosti.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/22/euro ... index.html

He exposed the US government for what they are in the digital age. Can't blame him for fearing for his life. Best wishes to his future endeavors.
#15129492
Random American wrote:He should be pardoned.
He should not be pardoned! He shouldn't ever have been charged!

Snowden should be absolved of all wrong-doing. I find a pardon to be insufficient.

He should get a fucking Medal.
#15129750
Wikileaks saved Snowden's ass by getting him to Russia while The Guardian who he shared info with sold him out, just like they did to Julian Assange after using Wikileaks work, making millions off it, then stabbing him in the back and front.

Anyway, good for Snowden. Makes sense considering the Americans banned his passport.
#15129810
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Benjamin Franklin

Yes, this quote has lost its context a bit as it was originally about taxation, but I still think the logic applies here. The constitution of the United States was not written to be a piece of toilet paper. It's supposed to prevent abuses of state power, and one of those rights is the Fourth Amendment which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures. Supporting a violation of that right is surrendering an essential liberty written on the Bill of Rights for temporary safety, and people who do, deserve neither. A government that has too much power can become a threat to you just like terrorists can.

In addition, I question if the more shady elements of my government truly have my best interests at heart, and it goes without saying that the real world is not like the TV show 24.
#15129824
@Politics_Observer He wasn't a traitor. He betrayed a corrupt, lying organization. The organizations which did illegal, and un-American things are the true traitors.

That Snowden had to expose their wrong-doing does not make him a traitor. He's exactly what you'd call a "Patriot". He sacrificed his freedom so that Americans could know what was going on under their noses.

Edward Snowden is a patriot and deserves freedom

What is the responsibility of public servants who believe that the government is abusing its authority? In most cases, US law encourages them to expose wrongdoing. The Whistleblower Protection Act passed in 1989 protects “any disclosure” that an employee reasonably believes indicates the violation of laws or rules, “gross mismanagement, a gross waste of funds, and abuse of authority, or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety”.

Edward Snowden’s revelation of mass surveillance by the National Security Agency, including the bulk collection of phone records, would seem to conform to all of the criteria for whistleblowing.

Did he expose violations of law? Check. Last month, a federal appeals court held that the phone records collection programme was illegal. Did he reveal abuses of authority? Check. The NSA’s inspector general has acknowledged dozens of incidents in which employees tracked phone calls and emails of former girlfriends, objects of romantic interest, or in one case an “unfaithful husband”. Did he point out gross mismanagement? Check. The mere fact that Mr Snowden was able to walk out with a treasure trove of top-secret information more or less proves the point. Did Mr Snowden bring to light the waste of public funds? Quite possibly, check again. The government has provided no evidence that the costly programme has prevented a single terrorist attack.

Unfortunately for Mr Snowden, the Whistleblower Protection Act contains a major exception: it does not apply to people who work for intelligence agencies, including the NSA.The US justice department maintains that Mr Snowden’s actions fall under a very different kind of law, the draconian and anachronistic Espionage Act of 1917. The Whistleblower Protection Act protects you as long as you believe you are doing right in leaking information about government wrongdoing to the press — even if you are wrong. The Espionage Act treats you as a traitor even if you acted with patriotic intent, as Mr Snowden convincingly claims to have done — and even if you are right.

But henceforth, NSA policies face limits set by elected representatives of an informed public. Thanks to Mr Snowden, Americans know that the government is monitoring their electronic communications.

https://www.ft.com/content/8fec9956-0ad ... 144feabdc0


The highlighted section is the only real problem with what Snowden did. Americans owe Snowden a debt of thanks.

Edward Snowden is a Patriot
Edward Snowden is a patriot.

As a whistleblower of illegal government activity that was sanctioned and kept secret by the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government for years, he undertook great personal risk for the public good. And he has single-handedly reignited a global debate about the extent and nature of government surveillance and our most fundamental rights as individuals.

Thank goodness for patriots like him, who are willing to endure personal sacrifice to defend truths that we hold self-evident, but which too many Americans take for granted.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/edward-snowden-patriot
#15129831
Godstud wrote:Politics_Observer: He wasn't a traitor. He betrayed a corrupt, lying organization. The organizations which did illegal, and un-American things are the true traitors.


I do not think the surveillance is entirely unnecessary and bad. It is how one uses it -- this is why Huawei cannot gain trust anywhere.

I think he did a good job for exposing it, but choosing to reside in an enemy nation (Russia) pretty much destroyed his credibility -- and he did it at a time Obama, of all people, was still in power.

If he, after fleeing to HK and got his findings known, and then face trial like Julian Assange I will support him much more. Although I admit that the moment he sets foot in HK, nobody can and will hand him over to the American authorities.
#15129839
@Godstud

Snowden is no patriot. Putin isn't letting Snowden stay in Russia out of the goodness of his heart. Nothing is free. What is it costing Snowden for Putin to let him stay in Russia? Giveaway Hint: valuable national defense secrets of the U.S.

It's not like Putin just decided he loves freedom loving people and that therefore he would just let them stay in his country simply out of the goodness of his heart. Nope, he saw a treasure trove of intelligence information in Snowden and somebody he could exploit for propaganda purposes against the U.S. He has after all assassinated some of his political opponents in Russia and abroad who wanted freedom and better government in Russia.
#15129845
Patrickov wrote:I think he did a good job for exposing it, but choosing to reside in an enemy nation (Russia) pretty much destroyed his credibility -- and he did it at a time Obama, of all people, was still in power.

I think he did so because he knew Russia wouldn't hand him over. It was using their anti-Americanism to save himself, and I don't blame him for that. It's just politics and the making of strange bedfellows.
#15129935
In refusing to extradite Snowden, analysts said, there are a number of legal justifications Russia could cite, in addition to the absence of an extradition treaty between the two countries.

"Under international law, a legitimate request for political asylum under the Refugee Convention trumps a request for extradition," Falk said. "The murky area comes when the country requesting extradition claims the crime is not of a political nature, as the U.S. has done in the indictment."

Marjorie Cohn, a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law and former president of the National Lawyers Guild, argued that Russia might also find justifications in the Convention Against Torture, citing the treatment of another accused leaker, Pfc. Bradley Manning.

"Since Bradley Manning was subjected to torture by being held in solitary confinement for the first nine months of his confinement, Russia could conclude that Snowden might be subjected to the same fate, and deny extradition on that ground," Cohn wrote in an email to CBSNews.com.

Then there's double criminality. Under the doctrine, Simes noted, the act for which the extradition is sought must be recognized by both the demanding and requested countries.

"Stealing American secrets is not a crime in Russia."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/for-edward-snowden-why-russia/
“Snowden was granted an open-ended residence permit earlier today,” the state-run TASS news agency quoted his lawyer Anatoly Kucherena as saying.

The lawyer told Interfax that changes made to Russian immigration law in 2019 allowed Snowden to obtain indefinite residency.

Kucherena had said that Snowden’s previous permit expired in April but was automatically extended until June due to the coronavirus pandemic, TASS reported. Snowden applied to extend his residence permit as soon as authorities lifted lockdown measures, the lawyer added.

Snowden, who has led a reclusive life in Russia, is not considering applying for Russian citizenship, Kucherena added. The whistleblower has previously expressed concerns for his safety in Russia.

Last year, Snowden said he wanted France and Germany to grant him asylum and expressed willingness to serve time in U.S. prison as long as he is guaranteed a fair trial.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/10/22/snowden-granted-permanent-russian-residency-lawyer-a71830
. Refugee Status
The basic method for protecting foreign nationals and stateless persons in the territory of the Russian Federation is to recognize them as refugees. According to Russian legislation, a refugee is

a person who is not a citizen of the Russian Federation and who because of a well-founded fear of becoming a victim of persecution by reason of race, religion, citizenship, national or social identity or political convention is to be found outside the country of his nationality and is unable or unwilling to avail himself of the protection of this country due to such fear, or having lost his or her nationality and staying beyond the country of his or her former place of residence as a result of similar developments, cannot return to it and does no wish to do so because of such fear.[27]
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/refugee-law/russianfederation.php
#15129937
Random American wrote:I question if the more shady elements of my government truly have my best interests at heart


Same here, I suspect that these programs started off with the intent of having our interests at heart, but have devolved beyond that. "Give an inch, and they take a mile" comes to mind. Supposedly members of congress are clued into these activities, but then again, congress is usually in it for themselves and not the rest of us. :hmm: :(

The interesting thing here is that what he exposed isn't just about the US, it also exposed the 5 eyes countries too.

Here's a question for everyone:
Could he not be considered a hero and a traitor at the same time?
#15129976
Snowden was a whistleblower and if it was any other organization but the NSA, you'd all be applauding his heroics for exposing their wrong-doing, and outright criminal behavior!
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