Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 105 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15129103
skinster wrote:You're not the only Cuban, X guy. There are plenty of Cubans who disagree with you and aren't spending their lives in half a million of debt just so they can move to a country that provides shitty and extortionate healthcare. :D


First:
I hope that what you are doing now is not fishing for a "weak spot" or a way to demoralize me or embarrass me because of my student debt. :lol: If so.. shame on you, but I'll warn you, it won't work. It won't work because my loans are not a burden to me. I am proud to pay for my own education. I am grateful that I got a good education and a competitive career. Neither of which I would have obtained in Cuba. You know what the Cuban doctor does to survive? Drive a taxi... :lol: Furthermore, the options fo pay for the loans are endless. I could have just gone for student loan forgiveness... just work for a non-profit for 10 years (you still get paid great $$) and voila, debt is gone. "Investing" 10 years of my life for my career is a far better deal than investing a lifetime... as you would in cuba since you basically become a slave of the system over there. Finally, I could have chosen a different career... a shorter, cheaper career, if I was so worried about loans... which I am not. Honestly, I have no problems talking about this topic to your heart's content but it is offtopic so perhaps you might want to open another thread for this.

Second:
That's a soft copout and a terrible argument altogether. In fact, that is an "ad populum" fallacy. A version of "cuba must be great because a lot of people believe it" :lol: . That is obviously a BS argument that I can just flip back to you by saying "Cuba must be awful because a lot of people believe it".
But I will go further. You cannot use that argument and I'll show you why... You can make the exact same argument for north Korea! Or Napoleonic France, or Stalin-era soviet Russia, etc, etc.

I knew you were heading into the "you have debt, therefore cuba is better" nonsense.... but I let you go there because it is nonsense. Utter nonsense. I had a choice and I made my choice. Whether it was the right one or not... time will say. But the key here... I HAD THE CHOICE!, the cubans in cuba don't have a choice. They have to be content with whatever breadcrumps they get.
It is like saying that you rather live in a country that has no MRI because if you do an MRI you might find a brain tumor and you rather don't find out if you have a brain tumor or not... That's fucking retarded... how about you live in a country that has MRI... and if you choose not to have it... you don't? Why eliminate the option completely before even getting to the problem? :knife:
I am seriously flabbergasted... otherwise smart people making these kinds of frankly idiotic claims.

You are like the guy that goes door to door to sell the magic lamp... question... if the lamp is magic and can grant you any wish? why are you trying to sell it in the first place :lol: .

Of the two of us... only one is living his life in a way that is consistent with his worldview... and that person is me. You are selling the magic lamp of how great Cuba is... meanwhile you are not using it for yourself :lol: There is something fishy there.
#15129175
skinster wrote:Enjoy your time in America, X-guy. You have a bright future there. Hopefully you manage to pay off your debts before society collapses there. 8)



LOL fearmongering.
Guess what, if society collapses I won't be having to pay an extra dime! Do you think it is more likely that western civilization/USA/Canda/etc collapses before Cuba does? :lol: What a fucking joke... However, it brings me back to this old question... if you think our "days are numbered" why do you keep living here? :knife: Why have you not moved to Cuba? Why do you keep trying to sell us this magical lamp? :lol:
I admit I could be wrong... But I have a high degree of confidence that I am not wrong and my actions follow my confidence. You don't seem that confident that you are right, your actions betray you. And sadly.... you are trying to sell this nonsense to unsuspecting readers here which might erroneously think that your confidence is warranted :lol: .
#15129248
skinster wrote:You're not the only Cuban, X guy. There are plenty of Cubans who disagree with you and aren't spending their lives in half a million of debt just so they can move to a country that provides shitty and extortionate healthcare. :D


X is a smart man with STEM type intelligence and hence he can thrive in the USA or elsewhere. Those other Cubans you mention are low IQ and would likely fare better in a communist country. If you are in the gutter you are better off in a commie nation.
#15129265


XogGyux wrote:LOL fearmongering.


It's not fearmongering. Have you missed what looks to be the early stages of a civil war in the country?

Guess what, if society collapses I won't be having to pay an extra dime!


True. :D

I admit I could be wrong... But I have a high degree of confidence that I am not wrong and my actions follow my confidence.


Not sure what that confidence is based on, since you refuse to read about the country you live in. I'm guessing if you read the news at all, it's made by corporations, and my guess is based on the willful ignorance that you display and your plans to vote for Joe Biden.

You don't seem that confident that you are right, your actions betray you.


I feel somewhat confident but I'm open to changing my mind with some new information. Teach me things!

And sadly.... you are trying to sell this nonsense to unsuspecting readers here which might erroneously think that your confidence is warranted :lol: .


You're projecting your unsuspecting nature since there are others here who read beyond opinion posts.
#15129284
Julian658 wrote:X is a smart man with STEM type intelligence and hence he can thrive in the USA or elsewhere. Those other Cubans you mention are low IQ and would likely fare better in a communist country.

So only super-high intelligence people can thrive in the USA (it's tents and crapping on sidewalks for everyone else) while ordinary non-STEMS can thrive in Cuba?

And XogGyux is one of the "smart ones" from an island of mostly dummies?

Do you agree with Julian's assessment, XogGyux ?

Do you remember "other Cubans" as being "dumb?"
#15129302
QatzelOk wrote:So only super-high intelligence people can thrive in the USA (it's tents and crapping on sidewalks for everyone else) while ordinary non-STEMS can thrive in Cuba?

And XogGyux is one of the "smart ones" from an island of mostly dummies?

Do you agree with Julian's assessment, XogGyux ?

Do you remember "other Cubans" as being "dumb?"

Nice try! Q. Every nation has smart and not so smart people. I did not say Cubans are mostly dummies. IN fact, I have said the opposite MANY TIMES. Cubans are among the most successful Latin people in the USA.

Having said that there is an inescapable truth: With some exceptions low intelligence is a strong predictor of poverty. That is why I have also said that anyone who is very poor and in the gutter is better off in a socialist nation. Smart people (with few exceptions) tend to thrive anywhere assuming they are conscientious.
#15129506
Julian658 wrote:Smart people (with few exceptions) tend to thrive anywhere assuming they are conscientious.

You seem to suggest that "being smart" is a prequisite for "doing well." But if you're not "doing well," can you even hope to ever "be smart?"

This is what Paulo Freire said:

I didn't understand anything because of my hunger. I wasn't dumb. It wasn't lack of interest. My social condition didn't allow me to have an education. Experience showed me once again the relationship between social class and knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Freire

If Cubans seem smart, it's because they are well fed. And they are well fed because they had a revolution about everyone being fed.
#15129520
QatzelOk wrote:You seem to suggest that "being smart" is a prequisite for "doing well." But if you're not "doing well," can you even hope to ever "be smart?"


Low intelligence is a good predictor of poverty. High intelligence does not always lead to success however, the odds are way better.
Granted poverty can make someone less intelligent.



If Cubans seem smart, it's because they are well fed. And they are well fed because they had a revolution about everyone being fed.


For some, but most dumb people will remain dumb despite a good diet. At most a good diet allow people to reach their potential. Famine and poor nutrition is always a problem in socialist nations.
Last edited by Julian658 on 23 Oct 2020 16:55, edited 1 time in total.
#15129637
Julian658 wrote:...most dumb people will remain dumb despite a good diet. ...

Well, Julian, it's you against Paulo Freire - the education reformer and father of critical pedagogy.

Which opinion - yours or his - is most based on science, and which opinion - yours or his - is based on "I need to win an argument that backs up all the racist, colonialist, anti-communist propaganda I've been force-fed all my life"?
#15129646
QatzelOk wrote:Well, Julian, it's you against Paulo Freire - the education reformer and father of critical pedagogy.

Which opinion - yours or his - is most based on science, and which opinion - yours or his - is based on "I need to win an argument that backs up all the racist, colonialist, anti-communist propaganda I've been force-fed all my life"?


You can make an intelligent person less intelligent with poverty and a poor diet. No one denies that.
You cannot make a non-intelligent person brilliant with a diet. At most this person can reach his full potential with a good diet.

That is all I am saying!
#15129890
Interesting short videos above, both of them, skinster.

In the first one, Michael Parenti uses the expression "post-capitalist" as an alternative way of describing Cuba's style of governance.

A good friend of mine with a good background in politics and English calls Cuba "post-post-post-Modern," and I think this is even more precise since it describes a relationship to a dynamic timeline, rather than to a strict and unchanging ideology.

And this is why, when people criticize by saying that Cuba isn't "modern" enough, I wonder if they have ever seriously questionned modernity itself. How would an increase in drone ownership and plastic consumption improve the lives of ordinary people there? As opposed to the (pre-modern) basics of a good life like health and knowledge?
#15130194
QatzelOk wrote:Interesting short videos above, both of them, skinster.


Parenti <3 for his analyses but also because he's really funny too. I wish he wrote more right now. Have you read Inventing Reality?

And this is why, when people criticize by saying that Cuba isn't "modern" enough, I wonder if they have ever seriously questionned modernity itself.


If they can criticize without mentioning the embargo preventing Cuban development, they are absolutely full of shit. But I would argue they're full of shit anyway, crying about a tiny island nation that has no effect on their lives, except maybe that part where they defeated today's Empire. What a coincidence these same people never complain about their government or their host-country's government, what a bloody coincidence. :D
#15130206
skinster wrote:Pedagogy of the Oppressed was 8) 8) 8) 8)




For anyone that is dirt poor in the gutter communism is a very good deal.
For middle class people and above communism is a raw deal.
Last edited by Julian658 on 26 Oct 2020 12:14, edited 1 time in total.
#15130279
Stormsmith wrote:Hubby was saying except for Havana, covid is mostly sorted

Sorry if that's been reported. I've pretty much skipped this thread because....


I agree, totalitarian governments have much better control over people than democracies.
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