Barack Obama and Joe Biden should face the death penalty for the murder of Osama Bin Laden - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Crime and prevention thereof. Loopholes, grey areas and the letter of the law.
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#15130045
So I said at the beginning that Barack Obama and Joe Biden should face the death penalty with the emphasis on the word should, obviously that's not going to happen as the majority of the American electorate have condoned and even praised these actions. Actions that are illegal under American law and go against international agreed norms and conventions.

Also to note, I would have had no problem with Pakistan arresting UBL and extraditing him to the United States. I have no problem with him being executed if he was found guilty of capital crime after due process had taken place. I also would have no problem with taking extreme measures against Pakistan's ruling regime and its military and security establishment of it failed to cooperate in a proper manner with the US demand for arrest and extradition.
#15130047
Atlantis wrote:Sorry @Potemkin, can't join you in the World revolution. I'm not going to throw away all the good things we have for a pie in the sky.

Who is "we" in this case? Certainly not anyone outside the EU, which acts as just another capitalist-imperialist power outside its own borders. And not even the working people within the EU either. In Holland, for example, most of the actual work is done by immigrants, who have been 'tidied away' into high-rise blocks on the outskirts of the major cities. What "good things" do they have?

The EU exemplifies peaceful coexistence among nations. It's proven and tested. It can't fail. The social market economy guarantees the highest level of social justice and prosperity we can hope for in a imperfect world.

And you accuse me of being unworldly...? :lol:

I know this is anathema to the imperialists, but that just proves that I'm right. :)

Uh-huh.
#15130061
Atlantis wrote:Americans seem to think that everything is for sale, including the US presidency. Some things aren't for sale, sovereignty isn't. The US should have cooperated with Pakistan for the capture of Bin Laden. If Pakistan refuses to cooperate, the US should have ceased cooperation, for example in not giving aid. Violating a country's sovereignty is an act of war.


It's not what Americans think. That's just the game. That has been the game since the dawn of civilization. Since before America. Even developing countries play this game among each other. If you take your head out of your ass for a little bit, you'd realize the only thing that's different is that the US (and RUssia, and CHina) play the game on a larger scale.

You know, it's like major leagues for minor leagues.

Atlantis: Americans americans americans.... It's ONLY ever americans. :roll:

Don't get me wrong, it's fine to not like America, and to be against this stuff, but it's foolish to think/claim that this is unique to the US.

Politics_Observer wrote:Pakistan was double dealing us in the 1980s when the Soviets occupied Afghanistan and Pakistan is double dealing us today while we occupy Afghanistan. I am no fan of the Pakistanis. Never trust the Pakistanis.


That's the game. Everyone tries to one up everyone else.
Last edited by Rancid on 25 Oct 2020 13:13, edited 4 times in total.
#15130071
@Potemkin, I defend the right of migrants to seek a better life. I know that the left hides its racism by pretending to defend the rights of migrants. Yet in reality, they hate the migrants, they want them to disappear somewhere you don't have to see them. You want their slave work, but not anywhere near your cozy home.

That is reprehensible. The open racism of the right is preferable to the closet racists of the left.

As long as migration is in the mutual benefit, there is no reason to stop it. We certainly shouldn't stop it because of the pent-up racism and the ideological aberrations of the left.

Anyways, most immigration in Europe is part of the heritage of colonialism. That's got nothing to do with the EU. The imperial powers had to take in people from the colonies. They didn't really want the immigrants, so they left them to their own devices in parallel societies. That's what's still causing all the problems today.

@Rancid, I know a number of people who returned to Europe because they couldn't stand the way money determines everything in the US. Your saying that it's the same everywhere is neither here nor there.
#15130072
Atlantis wrote:The imperial powers had to take in people from the colonies. They didn't really want the immigrants, so they left them to their own devices in parallel societies. That's what's still causing all the problems today.


To me it is sad to see people from former colonies have to migrate to their former master countries. The point is many, if not most, of their former colonies turned out to be worse, no less because the people left over there, or more often, their new overlords, are worse. Just see how the likes of South Africa and Hong Kong has become.

Singapore is probably one of the few exceptions.
#15130073
Atlantis wrote:@Rancid, I know a number of people who returned to Europe because they couldn't stand the way money determines everything in the US. Your saying that it's the same everywhere is neither here nor there.


We were talking about nations interacting with each other (i..e geopolitics), not individual people.

Further, I work with and know plenty of Europeans that like/enjoy living in the US, but that's not what we're talking about here. So who cares, that's all personal preference. That's not what we were talking about, so stop trying to deflect. You do this kind of bullshit all the time. You are very wishy washy. Shifty.
#15130092
Atlantis wrote:@Potemkin, I defend the right of migrants to seek a better life. I know that the left hides its racism by pretending to defend the rights of migrants. Yet in reality, they hate the migrants, they want them to disappear somewhere you don't have to see them. You want their slave work, but not anywhere near your cozy home.

That is reprehensible. The open racism of the right is preferable to the closet racists of the left.

So let me get this straight. You think that the huge influx of immigration into the imperialist nations from the 1950s onwards, and the fact that such immigrants tend to be housed in ghettos on the peripheries of the cities which their labour services, is all the doing of "the left"? It had nothing at all to do with capitalism's need for cheap labour power and a more compliant working class in the aftermath of the Second World War? How did you arrive at that conclusion? :eh:

As long as migration is in the mutual benefit, there is no reason to stop it. We certainly shouldn't stop it because of the pent-up racism and the ideological aberrations of the left.

"Pent-up racism"? "Ideological aberrations"? Projection, much? Lol. :lol:

Anyways, most immigration in Europe is part of the heritage of colonialism. That's got nothing to do with the EU. The imperial powers had to take in people from the colonies.

No, they did not "have to" take in people from the colonies. They chose to do so for economic reasons.

They didn't really want the immigrants,

Yes they did. Cheap labour and a compliant working class. What's not to like? Lol.

so they left them to their own devices in parallel societies. That's what's still causing all the problems today.

They tidied them away into ghettos. Which is what the bourgeoisie have been doing with the working class since the mid-19th century. The bourgeoisie didn't want to have to look at the results of their own capitalist exploitation. In Paris, for example, Haussmann cleaned up the streets, created the boulevards, and swept the working classes out of sight into ghettos, to create a more pleasant environment for his bourgeois paymasters. Were "the left" in charge then? :eh:
#15130095
Rich wrote:This seems like an open and shut case to me. Barack Obama ordered the murder of Osama bin Laden. Joe Biden seems to have been complicit in this murder. Osama Bin Laden was not in war zone. He wasn't even in area with a major insurgency. He was living a short distance from one of Pakistan's major military establishment.

There don't seem to be any mitigating circumstances in this cold blooded murder. Hence they should face the death penalty.


Is this post for real??? :lol:

How about the innocent people who were killed in war? You focus on Bin Laden? I can see an argument for Blair and Bush facing the firing squad due to illegal wars and innocent people being killed. But Obama only ordered the killing of a known terrorist who attacked America first. I think you are alone in thinking his assassination warrants a death penalty. But even if what you said was relevant, as the crime was in Pakistan, any punishment would be in regards to their laws as it doesn't comply with any international breeches I am aware of as Pakistan accepted the death of Bin Laden and said that any similar future missions they should been kept in the loop due to sovereignty. And that would involve the assassin rather than the person who did the order if Pakistan was to react in any case.
#15130155
Potemkin wrote:So let me get this straight. You think that the huge influx of immigration into the imperialist nations from the 1950s onwards, and the fact that such immigrants tend to be housed in ghettos on the peripheries of the cities which their labour services, is all the doing of "the left"?


You obviously didn't read my post.

It is obvious that the wave of immigration from the colonies is the legacy of colonial rule. These were for the most part people who left their home countries together with the colonial powers because they had served their colonial masters. The UK tried to continue its economic influence in its former colonies by creating the Commonwealth and by extending UK citizenship to hundreds of millions of Commonwealth citizens. It was only after increasing numbers arrived in the UK and after Powell's Rivers of Blood speech that the rights of Commonwealth citizens were gradually reduced.

You live by trade and by rent because you are too lazy to do any actual work. With trade, people come, people that you don't want. That's what'll always get you in a bind. Poor imperialists. You are doomed! :D

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