Edward Snowden gets permanent residency in Russia - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15130526
Politics_Observer wrote:@Beren

Yes, I am an American and from the United States. Been to your country Hungary as well and visited the city of Budapest. Beautiful city by the way.

Thanks, that's what tourists/foreigners usually say anyway. Have you been advised to flatter Hungarians like that? :lol:

How much are you into MMA, by the way?
#15130527
@Beren

Well I meant what I said. I wasn't trying to flatter you. Budapest is a beautiful city. The streets were very clean when I was there. Women were beautiful as well. I was much younger man then. It was also beautiful looking at the Danube River from the city. Food was good. But the cleaniness of the city was just impressive. Much better than any American city. Many of the buildings in Budapest were older than the United States itself.

At one time, I actually trained in some MMA. I did it simply to learn some self defense and to get into shape. The gym where I trained helped to produce one UFC fighter and a WEC fighter. At that time, I was in outstanding shape. Now, I am fat and out of shape. I am not as young as I used to be. Plus, my studies are pretty crushing and it's hard to find time for exercise. I try to get some time in for exercise every now in then here and there when my studies aren't crushing me. I also like to have some free time for myself too though.

I am not big time into MMA, but I enjoy watching the occasional fight. But MMA as a sport is outstanding and you can learn a lot and become a better person in that sport. If somebody has the time and the money, I strongly encourage them to train at a good solid MMA gym that teaches you what the sport is all about.
#15130530
Politics_Observer wrote:@Beren

Well I meant what I said. I wasn't trying to flatter you. Budapest is a beautiful city. The streets were very clean when I was there. Women were beautiful as well. I was much younger man then. It was also beautiful looking at the Danube River from the city. Food was good. But the cleaniness of the city was just impressive. Much better than any American city. Many of the buildings in Budapest were older than the United States itself.

At one time, I actually trained in some MMA. I did it simply to learn some self defense and to get into shape. The gym where I trained helped to produce one UFC fighter and a WEC fighter. At that time, I was in outstanding shape. Now, I am fat and out of shape. I am not as young as I used to be. Plus, my studies are pretty crushing and it's hard to find time for exercise. I try to get some time in for exercise every now in then here and there when my studies aren't crushing me. I also like to have some free time for myself too though.

I am not big time into MMA, but I enjoy watching the occasional fight. But MMA as a sport is outstanding and you can learn a lot and become a better person in that sport. If somebody has the time and the money, I strongly encourage them to train at a good solid MMA gym that teaches you what the sport is all about.


Shared a plane seat next to a Brazilian MMA fighter and his entourage once, had a great time. Managed to (between Portugese and English language barriers helped by Google Translate) talk and discovered what a great human being he was. Came out of absolute wretched poverty in Brazil, but a super humble and decent fellow.
#15130533
@Politics_Observer Fox News is USA's state-sponsored propaganda news agency. :p

USA is heavily surveilled. It's not that different from Russia, when it comes down to it.
#15130543
Snowden realises documents of US involvement in homegrown spying and somehow Russia still had to be worse?? :lol:

I have no doubt spying goes on everywhere. The only issue is the West make a song and dance about privacy which makes these whistleblowing events important stories. But I am sure we are just as bad as any of the Eastern players. And in America especially, I expect it is even worse.

And @Politics_Observer, if Russia have extracted any more information from Snowden about US security, it wasn't because Snowdon was an informer for Putin. It would be because America revoked his passport whilst he was in Russia and now he has to pay the rent to stay in Russia. A self harm occurrence.
#15130577
Politics_Observer wrote:@skinster

Dude's in Russia skinster. Come on now! This isn't rocket science.


I asked you for evidence, not your opinion. So you have none. As expected...

AFAIK wrote:PO clearly isn't familiar with the Snowden saga. I stopped reading his posts when he claimed Snowden intentionally moved to Russia. Everyone knows he was stranded there after his gov't rescinded his passport as he transited Moscow.


Apparently this fact is lost on PO. I'll reiterate it again, maybe repetition really works: Snowden ended up staying in Russia because the American government put a stop to his passport while he was there en route to Ecuador. You need a passport to travel between countries and I understand Snowden only had one passport, the American one. That got banned by the U.S. government.

Cue PO's response: BUT RUSSIA!!
:lol:
#15130734
Politics_Observer wrote:@MistyTiger

What about the lives of our country's informants or the lives of our troops? Don't their lives mean anything to you or do you think they are expendable? Are you OK with a hostile foreign power using the intelligence they get from Snowden against our country and endangering the lives of our troops, informants and the national security of the country of it's citizens? Surely, their was a better way to handle any misgivings.


He thought about that. His decision was not made impulsively. But the US government had no intention of ending the program. They wanted him to shut up. I have no doubt that officials thought about murdering him.

You did not answer my question regarding the hypothetical situation. So you would keep silent while your own country targets one of your relatives to gain their assets to pay off the national debt? Wow. I could not stand by and let anyone hurt my loved ones, I would defy my employers if I had to.

In a way, we are all expendable to our employers. We are identified by age, ID number. They have an agenda. If I feel threatened by my employer or an agency, I will take action to protect myself. If any troop had to save himself or save thousands, who would he save? Most likely he would choose to save himself, it is human nature.
#15130752
@MistyTiger

The government has never targeted any of my relatives unjustly. However, my relatives are held to the same standards of the law as anybody else. I have always been treated fairly by the U.S. government. If the government goes after somebody's assets, there is usually a reason behind and most of the time it's a good reason and justifiable under the law. That being said, I don't expect myself or my family to have special treatment under the law. The way I look at it is that I am subject to the rules just like anybody else and so is my family and we are all required to follow the rules (laws).
#15130753
So, @Politics_Observer, just because you haven't seen the government abuse this information, means they haven't and will not?

What the NSA was doing was ILLEGAL and against your constitutional rights. The idea that he could have just gone to the police or reported this to a superior is pie-in-the-sky talk.
#15130755
@Godstud

I am sure the government has abused some of it's powers in the past and probably today. That's why we have a court system. If we have an issue, we take it before the courts and let a jury decide or get an acceptable settlement before it goes to trial.
#15130758
@Godstud @MistyTiger

And if Snowden was as selfless as you think he is, instead of endangering and sacrificing the national security of his fellow citizens, he could have stayed here in the U.S. and faced trial to make his case. You know, one shouldn't "pay the rent" to stay in a country like Russia by cashing out the lives and national security of your fellow countrymen.
#15130762
Politics_Observer wrote:@Godstud @MistyTiger

And if Snowden was as selfless as you think he is, instead of endangering and sacrificing the national security of his fellow citizens, he could have stayed here in the U.S. and faced trial to make his case. You know, one shouldn't "pay the rent" to stay in a country like Russia by cashing out the lives and national security of your fellow countrymen.


Do you feel endangered? Do you sleep with one eye open? Has the US been overpowered by a hostile foreign power since the leak occurred? No. His goal was never to hurt troops and operatives. We the people have a right to know what our tax dollars are going towards.
#15130765
Politics_Observer wrote: he could have stayed here in the U.S. and faced trial to make his case.
You assume he would have made it to trial? My, you are a naive one, aren't you?
#15130767
@MistyTiger

Well, we got people who work to keep this country safe who could have been endangered by his leaking to the Russians. It's common knowledge that we do have informants in Russia just like they have informants here. Moreover, we have troops who are in war zones overseas. Did you think they were/are on a vacation? Those revelations could include the names of informants which Russia would gladly go after as well as the troop movements which enemy forces could use to target them. I mean, I was one of those soldiers at one time Misty.

In Afghanistan, Manning for example revealed sensitive information about troop movements with his disclosures to Wikileaks. That could have costed the lives of our soldiers and very well might have. In addition, the information that Snowden revealed could give terrorists or the Russians valuable information on how we conduct cyber-security to prevent them from hacking our systems that contain very sensitive information. Terrorists could use that information to evade detection and target every day citizens like you and me.

So, how would you feel Misty, if you were serving overseas in Afghanistan and a Manning or a Snowden revealed information for all the world to see about your movements that could be used by your enemies to set up an amubush for you while you are serving in a war zone? Would you be OK with that if it were your life? And do you value the lives of others like our soldiers for example who are in harms way?
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 28 Oct 2020 00:45, edited 5 times in total.
#15130768
@Godstud @MistyTiger

Godstud wrote:You assume he would have made it to trial? My, you are a naive one, aren't you?


I have no doubt he would have gotten a fair trial and been protected during his time getting a trial. Just like Manning or Bergdahl did while he was actually still in the military when he was court martialed who is widely regarded as a traitor.
#15130770
PO is again making complete shit up again. Manning's trial confirmed there was not a single American hurt by her revelations (of American government/military murder/torture etc.)

They tried to use that same lie against Julian Assange during his trial that just passed, and his defence team cited Manning's trial to confirm that this lie is what it is.

Please stop with the lies and ignorance of the facts (re: Snowden too). I can't believe you are this gullible, but I suppose you did serve in the military so I dunno, whatever. Just stop making stuff up.
#15130771
@Politics_Observer Your assumption of them doing this to seek fame is fucking idiotic. It's beneath you, so stop suggesting this was motivated by Snowden wanting fame. :knife:

Snowden gave the information to journalists whom he thought would make sure the right information would get where it belonged. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that if he talked to his superiors that he wouldn't have gotten anything but fired from job.


What of the unconstitutionality of the NSA surveillance? What about the fact that they mad laws to prevent the NSA from doing this, again?


Here's a good article on it, giving the pros and cons.

"Snowden ended up proving things rather than bringing it to light," as Mark Zaid, a prominent national security attorney who frequently handles whistleblower cases, put it. "There were lawsuits that people were trying to bring that got defeated because of standing, and the FISC document gave them standing."

"As a result of the disclosures," ACLU's Wizner explained, "we had standing to press our claims, and we actually got a federal court to declare the most sweeping domestic surveillance program in US history to be illegal."

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/201 ... ed-really/
#15130773
@skinster @Godstud

I was talkign about Bowe Bergdahl. I had confused Bowe Bergdahl with Manning. Both were court martial. Bowe Bergdahl's actions costed the lives of one of my fellow soldiers and his wife testified at his court martial trial.

And @Godstud You are WRONG. DEAD FUCKING WRONG. Snowden is a traitor. It's as simple as that. He endangered the lives of his fellow Americans. Pure and simple. End of story. Stop making execuses for a traitor. I'll fight to the end with you on this and will never stop fighting you on this @Godstud.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 28 Oct 2020 00:59, edited 3 times in total.
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