[Drlee]

@lancer345 Governments worldwide are abolishing democracy by using these lockdowns, and cracking down on protest. The political repercussions will be very bad.

What nonsensical hyperbole. This has absolutely nothing to do with democracy.

Please tell us how requiring people to not kill other people is "abolishing democracy".

[Julian658]

I do not support such protests, but I do not believe they should be stopped either. I do not believe the severity of this disease warrants the level of hysteria in so many people. If this disease were deadlier than it is I would say yes, but in this particular case, I don't see it as bad enough that we should be stomping out protest. A controversial position to take, but that's my stance at the moment.

Up until age 59 (healthy people) the chances of dying from Covid 19 is less tan the chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident.
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-ri ... -19-by-age

The chances of dying in a vehicle crash? One in 103.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/o ... -guns.html

The lockdown should only apply to old people and to those that are immunocompromised. However, this would not allow the PODs and AOCs of the world to push for UBI and socialism.

[Julian658]

They should be stopped.

Protests are breeding grounds for the virus. It is unsafe to gather around anyone especially strangers who might not bathe every day.

Protests, looting, and burning buildings by BLM and Antifa: Acceptable, heroic, good!

Republicans peacefully protesting because they want to work for a living: Evil and racist (white supremacy).

[lancer345]

@Julian658

How does that relate to my point that a UBI would solve a lot of the problems associated with lockdowns and social distancing?

Sure...Let people lose their profession, which give them meaning and sense of purpose in their lives.
Just make them cash a minimum wage level check, tell them to STFU, and stay at home.
And if they leave the house, take the check away.

What kind of dystopia do these people who think such ideologies come from in their heads?

What nonsensical hyperbole. This has absolutely nothing to do with democracy.
Please tell us how requiring people to not kill other people is "abolishing democracy".

You're talking about hyperboles but then in the next sentence you're comparing going outside with killing people. Are you the court jester?

You know what's killing people? Being forced to stay in a tiny studio with children and their wife, like many people all over Europe that can't afford more are forced to do. Watching their business die. Watching their relationships die. And watching some wealthy powdered socialist on TV tell them "stay at home you children" whilst he swims in the pool of his villa.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

How does that relate to my point that a UBI would solve a lot of the problems associated with lockdowns and social distancing?

POD

Mortality in people under age 60 that are not immunocompromised is extremely low.
I would simply isolate those that are vulnerable. There is no need to create chaos by destroying the economy. Children with no known risk factors have a mortality of near ZERO. Why are they out of school? All schools should be open. Just take the old teachers out and keep the young teachers working.

Your scheme is creating a two tier system. For example my daughter is doing state of the art home schooling and my grandkids are learning more than ever. With the money saved from the private parochial school she is offering my grandkids a superior education that includes specialized online teaching. She has also purchased a curriculum that is way better than anything a school can offer. Meanwhile the kids from poor parents are languishing at home with near zero education. This is widening the education gap and will leave more poor children behind. You should be ashamed of your ideas.

[Drlee]

The lockdown should only apply to old people and to those that are immunocompromised. However, this would not allow the PODs and AOCs of the world to push for UBI and socialism.

Simply ignorant trolling from our resident racist.

You do not understand the science. Your assertion that Covid is harmless to healthy people under 60 is wrong.

Anyone lisYou know what's killing people? Being forced to stay in a tiny studio with children and their wife, like many people all over Europe that can't afford more are forced to do. Watching their business die. Watching their relationships die. And watching some wealthy powdered socialist on TV tell them "stay at home you children" whilst he swims in the pool of his villa.tening to your advice would be a fool to accept it.

This is demonstrably false. People are not dying of this in any appreciable numbers. And it is within the power of their government to protect their futures. The problem there, as it is here, is that one party (republicans here) is preventing us from fixing the problem at an individual level. Of course the republican strategy is rather than court people's votes by sound governance, they simply seek to suppress the votes of people who do not agree with them.

Note to anyone reading Julian, Doug and now lancer. SCIENCE. This disease is a killer. It kills young people and old people. More importantly though is that we are not even certain what the long term effects of this disease will be though we know that a few of them in a considerable number of people are profound and debilitating.

Got a call from a panicked guy today. Stopped at a bar on the way home from work the other night. The bartender tested positive for covid. This guy is feeling poorly. He is afraid he has given it to his obese and very pregnant wife. He was a mask denier. Now he very well may have endangered his wife and daughter. Voted for Trump. He is a world class numb nuts. I did not offer him encouragement at all. Your kind of guy Julian. You know. A young person who has nothing in the world to fear. Well. Except maybe killing his wife and unborn daughter. And her mother who visited Thursday. And everyone he has had contact with in the past couple of days. And....

Profoundly. Stupid. People.

[Pants-of-dog]

...Let people lose their profession, which give them meaning and sense of purpose in their lives.

Since I never argued that people should be fired from their chosen careers, this is a strawman.

_______________

@Julian658

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=179298#p15138689

[Julian658]

Simply ignorant trolling from our resident racist.

You do not understand the science. Your assertion that Covid is harmless to healthy people under 60 is wrong.


This is demonstrably false. People are not dying of this in any appreciable numbers. And it is within the power of their government to protect their futures. The problem there, as it is here, is that one party (republicans here) is preventing us from fixing the problem at an individual level. Of course the republican strategy is rather than court people's votes by sound governance, they simply seek to suppress the votes of people who do not agree with them.

Note to anyone reading Julian, Doug and now lancer. SCIENCE. This disease is a killer. It kills young people and old people. More importantly though is that we are not even certain what the long term effects of this disease will be though we know that a few of them in a considerable number of people are profound and debilitating.

Got a call from a panicked guy today. Stopped at a bar on the way home from work the other night. The bartender tested positive for covid. This guy is feeling poorly. He is afraid he has given it to his obese and very pregnant wife. He was a mask denier. Now he very well may have endangered his wife and daughter. Voted for Trump. He is a world class numb nuts. I did not offer him encouragement at all. Your kind of guy Julian. You know. A young person who has nothing in the world to fear. Well. Except maybe killing his wife and unborn daughter. And her mother who visited Thursday. And everyone he has had contact with in the past couple of days. And....

Profoundly. Stupid. People.

This is the most moronic post of the century. Google the mortality in people under age 60 with no risk factors.

[Unthinking Majority]

People are free to protest anything they wish, but they should still be legally required to wear a mask.

[Drlee]

This is the most moronic post of the century. Google the mortality in people under age 60 with no risk factors.

Unlike you I do not need to "google" anything to know the dangers of this disease. Now. Have an adult with a high school diploma explain my post to you.

[Julian658]

Unlike you I do not need to "google" anything to know the dangers of this disease. Now. Have an adult with a high school diploma explain my post to you.

Virtue is more to be feared than vice, because its excesses are not subject to the regulation of conscience. Adam Smith
I only know I know nothing. Socrates

[lancer345]

Unlike you I do not need to "google" anything to know the dangers of this disease. Now. Have an adult with a high school diploma explain my post to you.

Numerous experts have pointed out that this disease does not warrant the restriction on civil liberties imposed (here in Europe).

The most famous epidemiologist in Europe has declared that "Covid is only a danger to
the old and infirm, and those with a life expectancy of 5-10 years at most".

You're literally willing to suffocate an entire country to death because of a virus that, at best, will kill some of the infirm.

Thank God in heavens people like you are not at the helm of countries.

[Julian658]

Numerous experts have pointed out that this disease does not warrant the restriction on civil liberties imposed (here in Europe).

The most famous epidemiologist in Europe has declared that "Covid is only a danger to
the old and infirm, and those with a life expectancy of 5-10 years at most".

You're literally willing to suffocate an entire country to death because of a virus that, at best, will kill some of the infirm.

Thank God in heavens people like you are not at the helm of countries.

He is like the AOCs of the world. Sadly, Joe Biden will now be manipulated by people that act according to emotions.

All they needed to do was keep the elderly and those with risk factors away. There was no need to destroy the economy.

[lancer345]

He is like the AOCs of the world. Sadly, Joe Biden will now be manipulated by people that act according to emotions.

All they needed to do was keep the elderly and those with risk factors away. There was no need to destroy the economy.

It will be interesting to see what Biden does.
I'm not willing to throw him under the bus yet, he's not yet President.
Wait & See should be the motto at the moment.

Personally I don't think he will have EU style lockdowns, but I could be proven wrong.

[Drlee]

@lancer345 an

Numerous experts have pointed out that this disease does not warrant the restriction on civil liberties imposed (here in Europe).

Garbage. This is not about civil liberties. It is about the SCIENCE of fighting this disease. Guess what Skippy. Your colonoscopy is not about some politician trying to stick something up your ass either. (No matter how well deserved it may be; but then I digress.)

The most famous epidemiologist in Europe has declared that "Covid is only a danger to
the old and infirm, and those with a life expectancy of 5-10 years at most".

Then the "most famous epidemiologist in Europe" is a monumental dumbass. Actually you are going to have to show me that quote. I know a lot of epidemiologists (no surprise there) and not a one of them would say something so incredibly stupid. You made that shit up.

Oh. And this. Someone who believes that 5-10 years of life is insignificant is either a sociopath or 14 years old. Which are you?

You're literally willing to suffocate an entire country to death because of a virus that, at best, will kill some of the infirm.

This is demonstrably untrue. Get your head out of your ass and read a book.

Thank God in heavens people like you are not at the helm of countries.

Actually we are. And the WHO. And CDC. And the health ministries of most nations. And most research organizations. In my case (among other things) training health care workers for the future and helping patients every day.


In the US, Brazil and Sweden, where utter fools are in charge, had someone like me or Dr. X (or just about any scientist for that matter) been "at the helm" the death toll in the US might well have never hit 10,000 not to mention more than a quarter of a million.

In the last 7 days the US has reported more than 10,000 deaths. That is more than double the number reported in Switzerland, ever. In Thailand, admittedly with only 1/5th the population of the US, they have had a total of, wait for it, 60. Sixty. Ever. That is how many the US is losing every FUCKING HOUR!

So take you monumentally stupid discussion about civil liberties and stick it up your ass. 59 Americans an hour are losing their "civil liberties" permanently. But that does not bother you at all it seems.

[lancer345]

[So take you monumentally stupid discussion about civil liberties and stick it up your ass

Clean your language and address people properly on the internet, to be treated civilly and engage in proper discourse. What you just wrote is not an argument and disqualifies you from discussion.

[noemon]

Nope, it does not disqualify him from discussion and nor does it negate his arguments.

[Jeremiah Squatpump]

The Australian government has made millions of dollars for corona fines. A pregnant woman was arrested for being against the lockdowns. A different woman got tazed for refusing to wear a mask. I could go on, but you get the picture. These lockdowns are a gift to authoritarians everywhere. Fear is the most efficient way to rule the populace. Sent to prison for wrongthink... How anyone could support this is beyond my understanding. And now we have Biden saying he'd extend the shut down until a vaccine appears, that's absurd! The increasing civil unrest due to lockdowns and mask mandates is making for a very tense situation all across the western world.
More Info Here ~ https://youtu.be/Bu30DNr1ELE



SHOULD PROTESTORS STOP OR CONTINUE - THE FIGHT AGAINST LOCKDOWNS?

If the latest flu really was killing in its tens of millions like the influenza pandemic a century ago then I’d agree. It’s not. Should protests be stopped? Should we ban everything that goes against what the government says? Are you sure we’re living in a democracy?

[Atlantis]

People violating the rules should be fined and/or imprisoned. The fines should be in proportion to the economic and health damage caused by the pandemic. Since the damage runs in the trillions, fines should be between 10,000 and several million dollars for each offense. Offenders could also be made to do menial duties in ICU wards or for digging graves for Covid victims.

If everybody adhered to the rules, there would be no pandemic. Society should not have to suffer because of a bunch of nutcases and conspiracy theorists. Consequently, the asocial offenders need to carry the full cost of the pandemic.

[Dimetrodon]

If the latest flu really was killing in its tens of millions like the influenza pandemic a century ago then I’d agree. It’s not. Should protests be stopped? Should we ban everything that goes against what the government says? Are you sure we’re living in a democracy?

Enforcing social distancing is acceptable, but I don't believe in suppressing dissent.