Infrastructure instead of Helicopter Money - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15139287
According to Keynes a state has to spend money in time of crisis. In time of growth the state has to loose debts.

Currently the US distributes money "Helicoptermoney".

Because Restaurants make fewer money and Shops. Coul be a Mega Infrastructure Project lead to growth?

Infrastructure roads, railways, highspeed internet... require all levels of education, small and high.

When the states invest in infrastructure it benefits the real economy up to 40%. Which the state gets return in taxes
#15139296
SaddamHuseinovic wrote:According to Keynes a state has to spend money in time of crisis. In time of growth the state has to loose debts.

Currently the US distributes money "Helicoptermoney".

Because Restaurants make fewer money and Shops. Coul be a Mega Infrastructure Project lead to growth?

Infrastructure roads, railways, highspeed internet... require all levels of education, small and high.

When the states invest in infrastructure it benefits the real economy up to 40%. Which the state gets return in taxes

Keynes lived during the time of the gold standard.
Now the US$ is a full on fiat currency.
The only constraint on US deficit spending is inflation.
Inflation will only occur with the nation runs out of some needed resource, incl. labor.
Now there is very high unemployment, much higher than the official number.
Now, direct payments are the only way to save millions form suffering some avoidable economic damage. Damage is losing the house they own or being evicted and not having money for a damage deposit and so having to live in a car, etc. This sort of damage will carryon for many years after you may think they have gotten back in their feet.
In March the CARES Act wasted $3T or $4T with gifts to the 1% and the corps. they own. This is evidence that the US can spend $3T now to save the economy by feeding the money into the bottom of the economy, instead of the top.
Will congress do this. I give it a 0.01% chance.
Later, MMTers suggest that the Gov. hire everyone who wants a job at a socially inclusive wage (maybe $20/hr) to do anything that is socially useful but not profitable for a comp. In a pandemic this may be staying home, so as not to spread the virus. Federal money, but local control.
. . . Note, this assumes the borders are not wide open to anyone to come for that cushy job.
. . . I think that it also assumes that the worker shows up and works. It is not a hand out, it is a job.
. . . Rural people should love this program because it feeds money into their towns. Money that will be spent there to support local businesses. Urban people may even move to small towns for the low rent, to make their wage go further. This may save some towns.

Will congress do this. I give it a 0.01% chance.
Will congress act to save civilization from ACC, aka AGW. I give it a 0.01% chance.
.
#15139406
SaddamHuseinovic wrote:According to Keynes a state has to spend money in time of crisis. In time of growth the state has to loose debts.

Currently the US distributes money "Helicoptermoney".


I totally agree.

Trump increased sovereign debts to historic levels by tax cuts to transfer wealth to the superrich at a time he should have reduced debts. Trump inherited a strong economy with high employment rates. There was absolutely no need to stimulate the economy.

Due to the high debts, the US now doesn't have the reserves to address the pandemic-induced recession. The economic stimulus should start now, not in the form of helicopter money but in the form of infrastructure investments.

Thus, Trump did everything wrong he could possibly do wrong.

In Europe, Germany reduced debts to below 60% of GDP during the growth years. Therefore, Germany can now afford to stimulate the economy without excessive debts. In Europe most of the state financing went into saving jobs and helping companies through the recession, while the real stimulus package will come once we are through the pandemic to kick-start the economy with infrastructure investments in the green economy to consolidate our position as leader in the field.

Trump did the exact opposite. It's hard to describe the stupidity of it.

The result is that the green back is sliding in the international markets and the Euro is gaining market share with investments moving to Europe instead of to the US.
#15139799
Atlantis wrote:
I totally agree.

Trump increased sovereign debts to historic levels by tax cuts to transfer wealth to the superrich at a time he should have reduced debts. Trump inherited a strong economy with high employment rates. There was absolutely no need to stimulate the economy.

Due to the high debts, the US now doesn't have the reserves to address the pandemic-induced recession. The economic stimulus should start now, not in the form of helicopter money but in the form of infrastructure investments.

Thus, Trump did everything wrong he could possibly do wrong.

In Europe, Germany reduced debts to below 60% of GDP during the growth years. Therefore, Germany can now afford to stimulate the economy without excessive debts. In Europe most of the state financing went into saving jobs and helping companies through the recession, while the real stimulus package will come once we are through the pandemic to kick-start the economy with infrastructure investments in the green economy to consolidate our position as leader in the field.

Trump did the exact opposite. It's hard to describe the stupidity of it.

The result is that the green back is sliding in the international markets and the Euro is gaining market share with investments moving to Europe instead of to the US.

I don't think that you saw my reply, so I'll repeat it for you.

"Keynes lived during the time of the gold standard.
Now the US$ is a full on fiat currency.
The only constraint on US deficit spending is inflation.
Inflation will only occur with the nation runs out of some needed resource, incl. labor.
Now there is very high unemployment, much higher than the official number.
Now, direct payments are the only way to save millions form suffering some avoidable economic damage. Damage is losing the house they own or being evicted and not having money for a damage deposit and so having to live in a car, etc. This sort of damage will carryon for many years after you may think they have gotten back in their feet."

The economic theory you are using *assumes* that all the rules of thumb in effect for the gold standard are still in effect. I assert that this assumption has been proven false by Japan for the last 28 years. I assert that it is on you to prove that all those gold standard rules of thumb are still in effect, you can't just assume it, prove it.
________._______________________________________.___________________________

Quarantine is over 600 years old. When a gov. locks people in a building in quarantine that gov. has a responsibility to deliver food to them.
Lockdowns are obviously a form of quarantine. Lockdowns deprive most people their normal income.
It is very efficient for the US Gov. to pay people to stay at home so that the gov. can use the existing food distribution system to deliver food to those in lockdown. By 'deliver' I mean got the food close enough to them so that they can go and get it. (Maybe 500 years ago this was just dumping it 15 feet away outside the door.) Now this might mean, they use their car to drive to a store and buy food with the money the Gov. provided.

The same thing goes for rent. Long ago govs. didn't charge people in quarantine rent. The gov. didn't then tell people that if they can't pay that rent then they would have to go live under a bridge, because that defeated the purpose of locking them up so they don't (possibly) infect many others.

I'm annoyed that no one bought up Gallileo before[…]

China already dwarfs the US, Japan, and EU in the[…]

Certainly, the Republican Party has become the Par[…]

@Igor Antunov Your whole argument is based on F[…]