Sweden: "In public discourse, there is only talk about the failure of immigration" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15139092
Original French article (Le Monde): https://www.lemonde.fr/international/ar ... _3210.html

In Sweden, it is all about avoiding the migration “catastrophe” of 2015 at all costs

Five years ago, the Scandinavian kingdom received 163,000 asylum seekers. Today, a majority of political parties want to restrict reception conditions.


Echoing the "wir schaffen das" ("we will get there"), launched by the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, on August 31, 2015, the Swedish Prime Minister, Stefan Löfven, insists, in Stockholm: "My Europe does not build walls. " Words that come to haunt him today.

Because if, five years later, the German Chancellor assures that she would take "the same essential decisions" , Stefan Löfven wants to do everything "not to return to the situation of autumn 2015", as he keeps repeating . For the first time, on September 9, the Social Democratic leader even made the link between the “importance of immigration” and the “tensions” within Swedish society.

In the public debate the failure of integration is no longer debated: social segregation, accentuated by the glaring lack of housing; unemployment of people born abroad three times higher than that of native Swedes; the violence of gangs, established in neighborhoods with a large immigrant population ...
#15139272
I agree there should be full discussions about both the benefits and downsides (and things that can be improved) of immigration. It's a topic loaded with connotations of racism and xenophobia so an honest discussion is rare. Nobody wants to be accused of being a racist even if they're not. And I agree that the benefits don't get the same attention as the problems sometimes.
#15139367
Unthinking Majority wrote:I agree there should be full discussions about both the benefits and downsides (and things that can be improved) of immigration. It's a topic loaded with connotations of racism and xenophobia so an honest discussion is rare. Nobody wants to be accused of being a racist even if they're not. And I agree that the benefits don't get the same attention as the problems sometimes.


The downsides of immigration could rival War and Peace in length. The benefits could rival a pamphlet.

I can't think of any nation with completely opened borders that has fond memories of the result. If they do, I'd immediately question their motives.
#15139373
I don't know about Sweden, but in the German media there are regularly positive reports about immigrants. Just off the cuff, the news I can remember from the last few days include

- 3 refugees helped police with the recent terrorist attack in Vienna,

- 20% of start-ups in Germany are created by immigrants. That's higher than the percentage of the immigrant community.

- the founders of the German start-up that first announced a successful corona vaccine are a couple of Turkish-born scientists
#15139379
Oxymoron wrote:With the amount of self hate, and softness of the European population I am beginning to think they can use a bit of Asiatic concepts to bring them down to earth.
Honestly I think the Muslims are a better influence on Europe then the trans lunatics and their rainbow nutty asylum.


The worst thing the she-males do is a lot of screeching and tie up traffic with atrocious self-promotion (in comical clothing). I'll take that anyday over backwater savages who murder in the name of some invisible psychopath in the sky.
#15139386
Goranhammer wrote:The worst thing the she-males do is a lot of screeching and tie up traffic with atrocious self-promotion (in comical clothing). I'll take that anyday over backwater savages who murder in the name of some invisible psychopath in the sky.


One group undermines the very foundation of society, take them as a joke to your own peril. I am much better off with people who at least accept basic Tennent's of biology.
#15139394
Oxymoron wrote:One group undermines the very foundation of society, take them as a joke to your own peril. I am much better off with people who at least accept basic Tennent's of biology.


I know where you're coming from and I do agree to an extent. Society does seem to be weakening by an overwhelming advancement of liberal "values", but I don't see it the existential threat.

It's more a symptom than a disease. It's a very self-oriented belief that leads down a path of faux superiority.

While I detest communism and socialism for their extreme views toward the collective, the other fringe side is dangerous as well, albeit not quite to the same level.
#15139417
Currently, non-EU citizens can apply for a long-term residence permit after five years living in Sweden with the ability to support yourself. Sweden is going to introduce additional requirements for non-EU citizens. Permanent residence would only be granted to those migrants who "meet the requirements of Swedish language skills and civic knowledge, who can support themselves". As a result, the vast majority of refugees would have to go back their home country after five years. Germany has similar requirements for refugees to obtain a “settlement permit” (Niederlassungserlaubnis). This change in immigration law will resolve these persistent problems such as the failure of integration, the unemployment of people born abroad and the violence of gangs.
#15139426
Oxymoron wrote:
One group undermines the very foundation of society, take them as a joke to your own peril. I am much better off with people who at least accept basic Tennent's of biology.



That's tenet, not Tennent...

It's also wrong.

You can find homosexuality in a lot of species, which makes it as natural as apple pie...

The foundation bit is, at the very least, silly. I don't really want to know enough to know which way it's wrong.
#15139429
Atlantis wrote:
I don't know about Sweden, but in the German media there are regularly positive reports about immigrants. Just off the cuff, the news I can remember from the last few days include

- 3 refugees helped police with the recent terrorist attack in Vienna,

- 20% of start-ups in Germany are created by immigrants. That's higher than the percentage of the immigrant community.

- the founders of the German start-up that first announced a successful corona vaccine are a couple of Turkish-born scientists



There are both costs and benefits to immigration. Which reduces the argument to the basics, like the best ways to do it.

That doesn't satisfy the comic book crowd.

Oh well..
#15139443
ThirdTerm wrote:Currently, non-EU citizens can apply for a long-term residence permit after five years living in Sweden with the ability to support yourself. Sweden is going to introduce additional requirements for non-EU citizens. Permanent residence would only be granted to those migrants who "meet the requirements of Swedish language skills and civic knowledge, who can support themselves". As a result, the vast majority of refugees would have to go back their home country after five years. Germany has similar requirements for refugees to obtain a “settlement permit” (Niederlassungserlaubnis). This change in immigration law will resolve these persistent problems such as the failure of integration, the unemployment of people born abroad and the violence of gangs.


See, this is what pisses me off about the American left. Canada, Sweden, and a number of other countries have MUCH more stringent citizenship requirements than we do. If we had a "learn English and a get a job, asshole" requirement in America, the liberals here would LOSE THEIR FUCKING MINDS. I'm not exaggerating. I mean they would be back out in the streets (again), looting, burning, vandalizing, and yelling "racist"...you know, the usual.

You know, maybe RA was right. I am seeing a more distinct correlation between values and downfalls of civilization.
#15139581
late wrote:That's tenet, not Tennent...

It's also wrong.

You can find homosexuality in a lot of species, which makes it as natural as apple pie...

The foundation bit is, at the very least, silly. I don't really want to know enough to know which way it's wrong.

I am not taking about they Gays, I was talking about the Trans.
In terms of Gays, yes there is some biological basis why this exists. but to exist in such high numbers cannot be supported by Biology, this is a psychological condition in these type of numbers.
#15139586
Oxymoron wrote:One group undermines the very foundation of society, take them as a joke to your own peril. I am much better off with people who at least accept basic Tennent's of biology.


They're having so many kids, soon parts of cities are unrecognisable ethnic enclaves.
It's not just "a couple people" with a funny religion. It's entire families having 4-8 kids and often living on welfare. If you look at most common baby names in large European cities, you often find Ahmed or Mohammed.

This idea that some pink haired liberal is worse than Rachid the Iraqi and his family of twelve, is a dangerous fantasy. Then again you don't live in Europe, you live in North America where such things are just theory on the internet.

Goranhammer wrote:See, this is what pisses me off about the American left. Canada, Sweden, and a number of other countries have MUCH more stringent citizenship requirements than we do. If we had a "learn English and a get a job, asshole" requirement in America, the liberals here would LOSE THEIR FUCKING MINDS. I'm not exaggerating. I mean they would be back out in the streets (again), looting, burning, vandalizing, and yelling "racist"...you know, the usual.

You know, maybe RA was right. I am seeing a more distinct correlation between values and downfalls of civilization.


Yeah, the problem is that EU governments often say things, but then the implementation is nonexistent.
I'd like to see them move out a couple hundred thousand people as they promise. Never going to happen.
In France and numerous EU countries there are hundreds of migrants with legal order to "leave the territory within 5 years". Most never leave as the order isnt enforceable and migrants are fasttracked towards visas and/or naturalisation.

This is the reality of Europe on the ground.
#15139600
lancer345 wrote:They're having so many kids, soon parts of cities are unrecognisable ethnic enclaves.
It's not just "a couple people" with a funny religion. It's entire families having 4-8 kids and often living on welfare. If you look at most common baby names in large European cities, you often find Ahmed or Mohammed.

This idea that some pink haired liberal is worse than Rachid the Iraqi and his family of twelve, is a dangerous fantasy. Then again you don't live in Europe, you live in North America where such things are just theory on the internet.


This is a very typical vague anti-immigrant diatribe.

Is there an actual argument that you would like to make?

Yeah, the problem is that EU governments often say things, but then the implementation is nonexistent.
I'd like to see them move out a couple hundred thousand people as they promise. Never going to happen.
In France and numerous EU countries there are hundreds of migrants with legal order to "leave the territory within 5 years". Most never leave as the order isnt enforceable and migrants are fasttracked towards visas and/or naturalisation.

This is the reality of Europe on the ground.


Do you consider immigrants to be a problem?
#15139601
The "Orderly Return Law" (Zweites Gesetz zur besseren Durchsetzung der Ausreisepflicht) was introduced on August 21, 2019, in Germany. It was designed to give more power to authorities to apply sanctions against those who do not comply with the lengthy deportation procedures in Germany. Between September 2019 and February 2020, the total number of deportees from Germany stood at 10,276 failed asylum seekers. However, German authorities are having difficulties in deporting failed asylum seekers in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic as international flights are severely reduced in number. Covid-19 is a blessing in disguise. Five years ago, hundreds of thousands of refugees came to Germany, which contributed to the rise of anti-immigration parties in Germany. But nowadays, there are no new arrivals due to Covid-19 restrictions as asylum seekers are turned away at the border. This is a dream come true for AfD members.

The number of refugees living in Germany has fallen for the first time in nine years, said the Interior Ministry. Some lost their protection status, while others were prevented from entering due to COVID-19 restrictions.

According to the Interior Ministry, the decline was primarily because some people had their protection status revoked, withdrawn or expire. Meanwhile, travel restrictions implemented in response to the coronavirus pandemic have prevented some asylum-seekers from reaching Germany.

https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-refugee- ... a-55160344
Last edited by ThirdTerm on 26 Nov 2020 01:45, edited 1 time in total.
#15139620
Oxymoron wrote:
I am not taking about they Gays, I was talking about the Trans.
In terms of Gays, yes there is some biological basis why this exists. but to exist in such high numbers cannot be supported by Biology, this is a psychological condition in these type of numbers.



Oh good grief.

Trannys have your panties bunched up??

You are making sh*t up. If there are more gays now, it's prob because it's safe to come out of the closet. Occams Razor...
#15139676
lancer345 wrote:They're having so many kids, soon parts of cities are unrecognisable ethnic enclaves.
It's not just "a couple people" with a funny religion. It's entire families having 4-8 kids and often living on welfare. If you look at most common baby names in large European cities, you often find Ahmed or Mohammed.

This idea that some pink haired liberal is worse than Rachid the Iraqi and his family of twelve, is a dangerous fantasy. Then again you don't live in Europe, you live in North America where such things are just theory on the internet.


.


At least these fundamentalists can be reasoned with compromise as neighbors, as demonstrated by over a thousand years of Christian/Muslim history has shown. The Post modernist nut cases cannot be reasoned with, or compromised with. They will not be happy until they utterly destroy the basis of civilization itself. they are a cancer on to the great western world.
#15139677
late wrote:Oh good grief.

Trannys have your panties bunched up??

You are making sh*t up. If there are more gays now, it's prob because it's safe to come out of the closet. Occams Razor...


Occam's Razor would explain that there are benefits of being in a so called victim group, not to mention it is easier to explain your inefficiency with the opposite sec by just giving up on mating. The amount of Gays by percentage is insane compared to rates you would find in nature. Or are animals in the wild also in the closet?

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