Will Trump be remembered in History? - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15138676
Politics_Observer wrote:I think Trump will be remembered as the worst U.S. President in American history. I really mean that.

@MistyTiger

I think Bush was a good man who was inexperienced when he came into office and was manipulated by Dick Cheny. Hence, why we had the invasion of Iraq which I regard as a mistake and a strategic error. I think once Bush saw the realities of war and the consequences some of his decisions can have it shook him up a little bit and gave him a reality check (he least had empathy and a conscious whereas Trump does not have any empathy for anybody nor a conscious). It also made him more mature and a better leader. He wasn't as easy to manipulate either afterwards. He had got some good generals later on during the Iraq war who really saved his bacon and the bacon of our troops and our bacon as a country in Iraq during that time.


Karl Rove manipulated Bush too. What an evil man.

Trump has Kushner. That guy looks slimy.
#15138690
@MistyTiger

Yeah, I know that Iraq War gave Bush a serious reality check given that Bush actually has a conscious and some level of empathy unlike some of the other snakes up their in Washington. I know Afghanistan gave me a reality check from hell and back, that's for sure.
#15139612
Fat Donald tried to run America more or less how he ran his failed business'. Debt, debt and more debt followed by multiple bankruptcies. During the fat guys time he managed to increase the national debt by $6,700,000,000. Then, upon losing the election, he, as usual, turned loose his copious supply of ambulance chasing lawyers in an attempt to sue his way back into office. Fortunately suing America is a bit more difficult that suing some poor sap who was dumb enough to do business with the Fat Guy. He lost 35 lawsuits and won one.

Thank God this puke inducing piece of shit will soon be less visible and, hopefully, in jail or playing golf on one of his over seas bankrupt golf courses.
#15139624
Politics_Observer wrote:I think Bush was a good man who was inexperienced when he came into office and was manipulated by Dick Cheny. Hence, why we had the invasion of Iraq which I regard as a mistake and a strategic error. I think once Bush saw the realities of war and the consequences some of his decisions can have it shook him up a little bit and gave him a reality check (he least had empathy and a conscious whereas Trump does not have any empathy for anybody nor a conscious). It also made him more mature and a better leader. He wasn't as easy to manipulate either afterwards. He had got some good generals later on during the Iraq war who really saved his bacon and the bacon of our troops and our bacon as a country in Iraq during that time.


Bush wasn't one of the brightest and I don't quite understand why Americans seem to think that that makes him an ideal candidate for the presidency ... :?:

But let's not get all balmy, any thinking creature could have known that Afghanistan and Iraq were huge mistakes. I knew that on 9/11 when I saw the twitching on his face while he was informed of the attacks on the twin-towers in front of the cameras. I saw all the knee-jerking the US would invariably get into. I understood that the Neocons would use the attack to promote their imperial ambitions of "7 countries in 5 years". And I don't have the huge resources of the US to inform me, but I do have a head to think with.

Bush never learned. In fact he continued the Neocon agenda by trying to topple the Syrian government, by trying to pull Ukraine into Nato, by destabilizing Iran, and, and, and, all during his presidency even after the catastrophes in Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush most certainly did not become a mature or better leader.
#15139625
SaddamHuseinovic wrote:I think Yes, the Showmaster who turned the Presidency in a reality show.

Father of Twitter Diplomacy.



But many Roman Emperors is remembered. Which are teached in School in 2000 Years:

A Billionaire who became President, under his rule was peace and prosperity... No he will be remembered as funny president.


I do not know what will happen during the next ten or twenty years... But let's say, we return to something that closely resembles the normalcy we knew in the Bush - Clinton - Bush - Obama years, and the next 30 years of Presidents closely resemble them in style, though perhaps differing in substance...

Pres. Trump will not just be remembered, but will likely be the most talked about President of our lifetimes. He might even be the most talked about President after FDR (maybe even after Lincoln).

There's simply too much to say whether you want to do it from a conservative or liberal angle, from the perspeciive of a fan or a detractor.

What will probably be most annoying to both liberals & conservatives in their grave is that historians in several hundred years will be incredibly fair to Trump -- drawing a picture that irritates both parties, showing him to be something of a conman and a hypocrite, but also something of a clever and cunning lion, who was able to totally get the best of his opponents and truly spoke to a huge segment of America, but at the same time being crippled by his own pride and never knowing when to relent.
#15139633
@colliric , don't you know you are breaking from the party line?! Pres. Obama was highly respected! They gave him a Nobel peace prize before he even did anything -- before he even had the chance to drone strike the home country of Malala, another Peace prize winner.

The people who talk about the need for us to earn their respect in international politics are the same people who will never respect the average American for who they are.

Why should Americans feel beholden to the opinions of sterile & effete Western European liberals?

These guys won't even exist in another hundred years.
#15139635
Verv wrote:@colliric , don't you know you are breaking from the party line?! Pres. Obama was highly respected! They gave him a Nobel peace prize before he even did anything -- before he even had the chance to drone strike the home country of Malala, another Peace prize winner.

The people who talk about the need for us to earn their respect in international politics are the same people who will never respect the average American for who they are.

Why should Americans feel beholden to the opinions of sterile & effete Western European liberals?

These guys won't even exist in another hundred years.


@Verv ,

And they're doing it to themselves. Nor are they confined to Western Europe, but throughout the Western world. But yes, in 100 years or less, reality will intervene with such vengeance that it will be mentally impossible to be a Liberal of the Western sort. In fact, I give it less than 10 years.

What I find interesting is that this adulation of a President one way or another appears to be a vestigial and unconcious longing for some sort of Monarch, is it not? Liberals did not want Obama's term to end, and today neither do Conservatives in America want Trump's term to end either....
#15139639
annatar1914 wrote:What I find interesting is that this adulation of a President one way or another appears to be a vestigial and unconcious longing for some sort of Monarch, is it not?
Is that why you adulate Trump all the time?


Most of you guys haven't a fucking clue what liberal or conservative means, any more. :knife: You are trying to redefine terms to suit your imaginary narratives.


Trump will be remembered as being the leader who could not leader in a time when the USA needed his leadership. He will be remembered for having 250,000+ Americans die on his watch.
#15139644
Herbert Hoover is remembered mostly because uneducated people mistake him as being J. Edgar Hoover and then get corrected....

"Nah, He's the President who was in power during the onset of the Great Depression, not that FBI guy".
#15139645
Is that why you adulate Trump all the time?


You know, it's pretty crazy to think that I ''adulate'' Donald Trump, a Capitalistic Oligarch Israel-Firster who could care less about anything of interest to me. And what of those who adultate Obama? Would not my insight still possibly apply to any supporter of his or of Trump's?

Most of you guys haven't a fucking clue what liberal or conservative means, any more. :knife: You are trying to redefine terms to suit your imaginary narratives.


No, those descriptors no longer fit most of the people in public life. ''Conservatives'' don't conserve anything, and ''Liberals'' aren't particularly into liberties.


Trump will be remembered as being the leader who could not leader in a time when the USA needed his leadership. He will be remembered for having 250,000+ Americans die on his watch.


I'm only talking about feelings. Feelings people have for political figures. Do you deny that people have strong feelings for these public figures that recall Monarchism, or not?
#15139681
Verv wrote:The people who talk about the need for us to earn their respect in international politics are the same people who will never respect the average American for who they are.

Why should Americans feel beholden to the opinions of sterile & effete Western European liberals?

These guys won't even exist in another hundred years.


:lol:

Should we respect people who's representatives literally have to speak like children to get elected?

Image

annatar1914 wrote:What I find interesting is that this adulation of a President one way or another appears to be a vestigial and unconcious longing for some sort of Monarch, is it not? Liberals did not want Obama's term to end, and today neither do Conservatives in America want Trump's term to end either....


I don't think Europeans or liberals in general share the American obsession with their presidents.
#15139683
Godstud wrote:Trump will be remembered as being the leader who could not leader in a time when the USA needed his leadership. He will be remembered for having 250,000+ Americans die on his watch.


Just a question, do you think Hillary would have improved our response? What should have the President done different that Hillary would have done?
Look at the western world overall, did the Europeans do much better? Do take into account, the vastness of the US and the independent thinking of the states and the individuals who make up our country. Answer honestly.
#15139697
Rugoz wrote:


I don't think Europeans or liberals in general share the American obsession with their presidents.


European Liberals certainly gushed over Barack Obama, as I recall. As I said about Americans generally though, it does seem to be a quasi-monarchial impulse, the obsession over US Presidents.

And it's a shame because most of the governmental constitutional power (in reality) in America lies with more localized authorities like Sheriffs, local, state and city governments, as far as most people's daily life goes.
#15139701
annatar1914 wrote:European Liberals certainly gushed over Barack Obama, as I recall. As I said about Americans generally though, it does seem to be a quasi-monarchial impulse, the obsession over US Presidents.

And it's a shame because most of the governmental constitutional power (in reality) in America lies with more localized authorities like Sheriffs, local, state and city governments, as far as most people's daily life goes.


They kind of did, but that was kind of a different motivation.

I don't know what a "quasi-monarchical" impulse is, but I suppose it's easier for people to project their dreams and hopes onto a single person instead of a faceless institution. That's why presidencies are dangerous.
#15139712
@Rugoz , about European gushing over Barack Obama as part of what I'll call a ''quasi-monarchial'' impulse persisting in modern times;

They kind of did, but that was kind of a different motivation.


Was it though? Looking back it seemed different than the fawning over Gorbachev or even Pope John Paul II (who was a real Monarch, come to think of it). With Obama, it was almost Messianic how white Liberals acted towards him.

I don't know what a "quasi-monarchical" impulse is, but I suppose it's easier for people to project their dreams and hopes onto a single person instead of a faceless institution. That's why presidencies are dangerous.


Having gone from being a reactionary Monarchist when I first posted on PoFo, to a Socialist small-r republican, I happen to agree to a point. But there has to be an institution capable of exceptions and emergencies beyond the formal written constitutions in order to preserve the institutions as a whole.

That's why, while I'm almost 110% certain that the 2020 US Presidential election was rigged against President Trump, it could well have been justifiable for reasons which the usual binary American Liberal versus Conservative have nothing to do with.
#15139753
Rugoz wrote::lol:

Should we respect people who's representatives literally have to speak like children to get elected?



Why should I believe that Macron or Merkel are any different?

Western Europeans are just like Americans except they're even more likely to have political correctness placed up their rear ends sideways. They like to pretend they care so much about imperialism and aren't just jealous of the fact that America has something of an Empire & they need to learn to talk like Yanks to be successful in life.
#15139762
Oxymoron wrote:Just a question, do you think Hillary would have improved our response? What should have the President done different that Hillary would have done?
"Hillary"? Irrelevant. Any other reasonable and rational person would have done better.

They would have worn a mask. They would have sent messages to UNITE the nation, and not divide it. They would have shown empathy and mobilized the country, leading from the top. They wouldn't have threatened states where the state leaders didn't praise the country's leader for inaction.

I already posted the CDC's recommended response by leaders(which Trump was shown, incidentally).

Five communication failures that kill operational success
Communication experts and leaders who’ve faced disasters can tell others
what is going to cripple or even destroy the success of their disaster
response operation.


ƒ Mixed messages from multiple experts
ƒ Information released late
ƒ Paternalistic attitudes
ƒ Not countering rumors and myths in real time
ƒ Public power struggles and confusion

https://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/resource ... eaders.pdf

In all honesty, you or I could have done a much fucking better job than Trump, and we don't have the resources he does for information and advice.

I think Trump was the WORST person for leader of the USA during the pandemic. If he'd done absolutely nothing, and just stayed on the golf course, it would have been an improvement.
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