The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 71 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15141043
Rancid wrote:To know if they are lying we would have to pick apart exactly how they are counting. All governments are counting cases and death different.


...and this is the crux. The problem with Covid is that it excerbates existing conditions and many die of pneumonia. Which means without taking a test you can confuse cause of death as something else. And the UK have figures of 28 days after a confirmed result regardless of death. In other words you can die from a car accident after having a positive test 27 ago and still go down as a Covid death. The reality is here in the UK, you are hard pushed to know anyone who has died of Covid19 (although everyone seems to have had it). And those I do know who have died were on deaths door anyway. And we are meant to be one of the worse nations? If that's the case well fuck me we have over panicked being our HEALTH SERVICE STILL HAS CAPACITY AND HASN'T USED THE NIGHTINGALE HOSPITALS.

I guess what I am saying is Covid death stats don't mean much and perhaps we should look at average deaths to current death rates to have a better idea on things - especially in those countries who have unrealistic low figures rather than looking up worldometer to gain an opinion. Although even that is misleading as unrelated Covid deaths has increased significantly due to our Covid response - oh the irony!
#15141046
B0ycey wrote:I guess what I am saying is Covid death stats don't mean much and perhaps we should look at average deaths to current death rates to have a better idea on things - especially in those countries who have unrealistic low figures rather than looking up worldometer to gain an opinion. Although even that is misleading as unrelated Covid deaths has increased significantly due to our Covid response - oh the irony!
B0ycey wrote:I guess what I am saying is Covid death stats don't mean much and perhaps we should look at average deaths to current death rates to have a better idea on things - especially in those countries who have unrealistic low figures rather than looking up worldometer to gain an opinion. Although even that is misleading as unrelated Covid deaths has increased significantly due to our Covid response - oh the irony!


I agree that this is probably the only reliable way to compare nations. However, it still hinges on countries like China to actually report all their deaths (of any kind).
#15141047
Rancid wrote:I agree that this is probably the only reliable way to compare nations. However, it still hinges on countries like China to actually report all their deaths (of any kind).


To be honest, only the naïve believe China's figures. I doubt it has anything to do with politics or to befuddle the West or whatnot but because the didn't start counting till quite late and don't test everyone suspected of Covid when they have come to hospital with preconditions. It just isn't so important to everywhere other than the West to over exaggerate death rates.

I mean let's be honest here, China filled up makeshift hospitals, one of which collapsed, in a society of 1.6bn and they are better than the UK? Fuck Off!
#15141048
B0ycey wrote:I mean let's be honest here, China filled up makeshift hospitals, one of which collapsed, in a society of 1.6bn and they are better than the UK? Fuck Off!

Exactly.

Further, has the UK crushed political protest in any of their cities lately? Has the UK sent people to concentration camps lately? Anyway, I guess that's for another thread.
#15141052
Rancid wrote:Further, has the UK crushed political protest in any of their cities lately?


The voice of dissent is growing here. It's just that people also know the importance of preventative measures to at least stem the virus to reduce hospital admissions so aren't all out waving their pants in the air down Westminster today. But at the same time they don't really want to destroy the economy either or lose any more jobs and also just want to be treated with respect. Because everyone knows who is at risk and that is shown in who is screaming the loudest for lockdowns. We now have had popstars and footballers break lockdown rules or have birthday parties above 30 people after they were the voice of lockdown initially FYI. In otherwords hypocrites. So now everyone is asking why are they the last mug standing when even the PM advisor's decides to test his eyesight driving when he shouldn't have been out and about.
#15141053
Doug64 wrote:Image


But there's the question of what must be done to contain the plague. If public officials are unwilling to live by the rules they demand everyone else follow, then they clearly don't believe that obedience to those rules is necessary. And if they don't believe their own rhetoric, why should we?

I'm sure by now everyone's heard about the Supreme Court's ruling on New York's restrictions on church attendance. Sean Trend points out that the ruling isn't as new or expansive as some (on both sides) have said. Check out the column for more details, but this is the nub:

    As others have pointed out, houses of worship have been the locus of multiple superspreading events, although, the court notes, not with Catholic congregations in New York City. But what the court is saying at this point is emphatically not that public health officials must overlook this danger in churches. Instead, the court essentially says, because of the First Amendment concerns, churches are essential businesses. Therefore, to be a neutral law the state much treat churches in the same way as were other essential businesses, especially when other essential businesses that are allowed to set their own occupancy rates have been the sites of COVID outbreaks.

And in other news, the Resistance continues to build:

Beverly Hills City Council Votes to Oppose LA County's Outdoor Dining Ban

Colorado Merchants Defy COVID-Closure Order

Edited to add: For those that didn't bother to look, here's the chart of the percentages by age of the total death rate from February to September:

Image


@Doug64 , inconsistency and hypocrisy are all-too-human traits. None of us likes to follow rules, or rulers, because we have been disobedient since the Fall. Even the ones who make the rules-no matter how good and necessary those rules may be-still break them themselves.

It takes courage and leadership by example to help people do what is right, whether it's a parent with their children or a political leader in office.

Even if this COVID-19 virus turned out to be an order of magnitude or more of being less dangerous than the media and politicians suggest (and they do both have perverse incentives to exaggerate any emergency situation), it would still be important to follow their legal directives. Masking for example is a slight inconvenience (and probably only helps most people as a form of variolation, but still better than nothing) but beyond all earthly considerations such obedience is in fact godly in my opinion. Same with lock downs if necessary.

If we were in a war for the existential survival of our country, would people be as rebellious in following the leadership of the nation, for the nation's survival? I wonder.
#15141055
B0ycey wrote:
The voice of dissent is growing here. It's just that people also know the importance of preventative measures to at least stem the virus to reduce hospital admissions so aren't all out waving their pants in the air down Westminster today. They just don't really want to destroy the economy either and just want to be treated with respect. Because everyone knows who is at risk and that is shown in who is screaming the loudest for lockdowns. We now have had popstars and footballers break lockdown rules or have birthday parties above 30 people after they were the voice of lockdown initially FYI. In otherwords hypocrites. So now everyone is asking why are they the last mug standing when even the PM advisor's decides to test his eyesight driving when he shouldn't have been out and about.


Of course, my comment was much more about protest in general, not specifically covid. As far as I know, the UK has not been passing laws that make it a crime to protest, like in Hong Kong. The general point being, the CCP is running a gutter government and will never be better than the west so long as they exert that much control over their population. Again though, that's for another thread.
#15141057
Rancid wrote:Of course, my comment was much more about protest in general, not specifically covid. As far as I know, the UK has not been passing laws that make it a crime to protest, like in Hong Kong. The general point being, the CCP is running a gutter government and will never be better than the west so long as they exert that much control over their population. Again though, that's for another thread.


Oh yeah, that's for another thread. :lol:
#15141058
Godstud wrote:I have a friend(along with his family) teaching and living in China, not 300 km from Wuhan. I believe Fasces also lives in China. The numbers are pretty accurate, but I guess it's not good because it makes Western governments look like shit, eh? ;)

I suppose Taiwan and South Korea are lying, as well?

Thailand must be lying too, right?

I did visit a hospital a week ago for a exam for renewing my license. No Covid-19 in the hospital, although I noticed they seem to be allowing medical marijuana, now.


So why the cyber attacks on EU and US vaccine information and distribution? What possible reasoning do Russia, China etc have for that if there is no problem with covid? How does it compute then?
#15141059
JohnRawls wrote:So why the cyber attacks on EU and US vaccine information and distribution? What possible reasoning do Russia, China etc have for that if there is no problem with covid? How does it compute then?


Claimed cyber ''attacks''. In any case, every country in the world with the means of wanting to find out anything they can in the fight against COVID-19, is going to try to find out if there's something other countries know but aren't revealing about that fight against COVID-19.

I'd want to know too if other countries were doing something better that I could be doing, and it's simply important as a matter of national security, knowing how other countries are faring with all this.
#15141060
annatar1914 wrote:Claimed cyber ''attacks''. In any case, every country in the world with the means of wanting to find out anything they can in the fight against COVID-19, is going to try to find out if there's something other countries know but aren't revealing about that fight against COVID-19.

I'd want to know too if other countries were doing something better that I could be doing, and it's simply important as a matter of national security, knowing how other countries are faring with all this.


You are saying as if there is no negative consequences for doing this and people do it because they want and not because they need to :eh:
#15141061
JohnRawls wrote:You are saying as if there is no negative consequences for doing this and people do it because they want and not because they need to :eh:


:roll:

What I'm saying, negative or positive, that every advanced country spies on every other country, and justifies it. Do you believe that the US and EU aren't doing the same with regards to China and Russia? :eh:
#15141068
annatar1914 wrote::roll:

What I'm saying, negative or positive, that every advanced country spies on every other country, and justifies it. Do you believe that the US and EU aren't doing the same with regards to China and Russia? :eh:


Probably not there is no need to steal the vaccine or distribution if you have your own already because this has negative consequences if cought or failed. :roll:
#15141071
JohnRawls wrote:Probably not there is no need to steal the vaccine or distribution if you have your own already because this has negative consequences if cought or failed. :roll:


Hacking and other covert capabilities can be aimed at monitoring and examination of the situation to a degree that is more informative than with open-source media.

It is naive to not think that there are things about COVID-19 that are not known to even the educated and reasonably informed public. Plus, looking at what vaccines are in development is likely to save time and thus lives, especially if vaccine designers in a particular country might be going down a wrong path in safe and effective vaccine development.

It is also naive to think that all these advanced countries are equally forthcoming in sharing their research with others and are naturally altruistic.
#15141075
A couple of nights ago, one news channel interviewed a man who trained as a nurse and soldier. He was deployed to Afganistan. Later he returned to the States and now nurses at a civilian hospital. I forget where. The interviewer ask him how the two experiences compared. In a down-to-earth manner, he said thought this pandemic was much worse. Much worse.

Think about this: we see a lot of ads re your service personnel. often, they feature soldiers with horrific wounds. Or soldiers who can't hold a job, a home, nor sustain a loving relationship. Soldiers with PTSD who are so mentally distraught they commit suicide for relief.

But this gentleman is saying the pandemic is much worse. Much worse.

For those who still maintain coronavirus 19 doesn't exist or is a conspiracy, fine. Believe what you will. But think about that soldier. Wear a mask. How long does it take you to shop? A half an hour? An hour? Surely you can manage. Livid that someone's closing your bar? Big deal. Buy a case. Cuddle up in your best chair. Call or Skype a buddy. Reminisce. Have a laugh. It might not be as great as your favourite haunt but it's better than helping a half dozen people to not suffocate from some unbeknownst condition for twelve hours, day after bloody day.
#15141172
Stormsmith wrote:A couple of nights ago, one news channel...

Do you have a video to share where the PTSD sufferer says "Covid is worse than Afghanistan?"
#15141232
QatzelOk wrote:Do you have a video to share where the PTSD sufferer says "Covid is worse than Afghanistan?"


Nope, and I don't remember the network nor the anchor, I was listening to the news while working in the next room. It's an accurate account, not word perfect but it captures the spirit. No hyperbole. you can decide to believe it or not. But this soldier/nurse sounded worn out.
#15141237
[Nope, and I don't remember the network nor the anchor, I was listening to the news while working in the next room. It's an accurate account, not word perfect but it captures the spirit. No hyperbole. you can decide to believe it or not. But this soldier/nurse sounded worn out.

PS I don't know if the solier/nurse was suffering from PTSD or not. That was a reference to other interviews of soldiers over the last few years. I will say that i'm hearing a few reports of nurses struggling with long hours and trying to fit in a family routine of sorts, and saying they are exhausted, sick at heart, and worried. It suggests PTSD could be in the offing

Sorry for the double post. It's late.
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