The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 72 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15141251
Stormsmith wrote:Nope, and I don't remember the network nor the anchor, I was listening to the news while working in the next room. It's an accurate account, not word perfect but it captures the spirit. No hyperbole. you can decide to believe it or not. But this soldier/nurse sounded worn out.

I can decide to believe it or not.... based on what?

Perhaps this soldier was the same guy who was riding his bike when he fell, smashing his helmet into a million bits, but his head was fine thanks to that consumer product that he was wearing?

If so, he's been posting under different names for decades.
#15141277
Sorry @QatzelOk , but it's too early to stumble down rabbit holes.

My point was it's easy for people to cope safely with coronavirus. If you're promoting the notion that the virus is false simply consider that you might be wrong. If so, you'd be dicing with the devil. Use your imagination to protect yourself. That is your forte.. you have a wildly active imagination. Use it. Hedge your bet. Continue to entertain us and make us think. Stay safe. Be on the side of your society. The medical community will hail you as a hero.

Conversely, if this corona virus is a falsehood, what are you out? An hour or so of wearing a mask? Come on, you can manage. Make one with a message. Connect with half forgotten friends by phone, email, or skype. You have all the necessary gizmos. You can still ride your bike, enjoy nature and so on. The cost is negligible. All is not lost and it won't be forever.
#15141278
Stormsmith wrote:A couple of nights ago, one news channel interviewed a man who trained as a nurse and soldier. He was deployed to Afganistan. Later he returned to the States and now nurses at a civilian hospital. I forget where. The interviewer ask him how the two experiences compared. In a down-to-earth manner, he said thought this pandemic was much worse. Much worse.

I’m sure for him it is much worse. As a nurse, I doubt he spent much time in combat, rather dealing with the aftermath. And I doubt he ever had a large influx of patients over an extended period of time, not having a major war our modern combat experience isn’t like that—instead, he’d likely have seen a constant trickle from the equally constant skirmishing with occasional jumps from larger clashes. So yes, an ongoing pandemic with a constant flow of a large number of patients where he can’t do anything but treat symptoms because we don’t yet have anything better would definitely be a lot more wearying both physically and emotionally.
#15141281
The pandemic is much worse than combat for the medicos. No doubt.

Then there is this. Medical people are treating people who need not be ill and certainly not dying. The inaction and lack of leadership in the Trump administration and republican senate has directly caused the deaths of over 200,000 people and that is being kind. IF we had taken strong national action, led from the front by a competent administration, we would have saved nearly all of those who have died. All we have to do is look at results in other countries to see the proof of that. Instead we had republican leadership that denied and in some cases continues to deny that there is a problem. It is tragic and it is criminal.

My local red-state government is still debating mandatory mask wearing. This is nothing short of criminal. They continue to argue about "rights". Ignorant and criminal.

So what is the height of stupidity in all of this? I will ignore the Trump nonsense. He is mentally ill. The height if stupidity is this:

Some religious people decided that meeting in close quarters is more important than life itself. They concluded that killing their parishioners is just fine. Why? I will tell you the inescapable conclusion....You can't pass the collection plate by zoom.

Then, instead of condemning this very irreligious behavior, the administration did nothing.

Then the Supreme Court, in an act that will for generations to come be used to point out the partisan nature of the court, decided that indeed, it is OK to make people ill and send them out into the community because.....rights. The court absolutely ignored the rights of the innocent people who will die needlessly because of this ruling. Among those who will die needlessly because of this act of monumental stupidity are those, like the nurse of which we are speaking, who are left to try to clean up this mess.

This is not just a failure of government. People on the right like to talk about how we are a largely Christian nation. They insist this means something. Well the death toll from this disease is a failure of Christianity on a national scale. If the churches had insisted on proper action the government would have had to act. Putting the collection plate ahead of the lives of their people is really speaking to young people and those on the fence. Sure some churches are doing some things but I can tell you from the front lines that very few and very little. Well. Our local Mosque is doing a lot.
#15141287
Drlee wrote:The pandemic is much worse than combat for the medicos. No doubt.

Then there is this. Medical people are treating people who need not be ill and certainly not dying. The inaction and lack of leadership in the Trump administration and republican senate has directly caused the deaths of over 200,000 people and that is being kind. IF we had taken strong national action, led from the front by a competent administration, we would have saved nearly all of those who have died. All we have to do is look at results in other countries to see the proof of that. Instead we had republican leadership that denied and in some cases continues to deny that there is a problem. It is tragic and it is criminal.

My local red-state government is still debating mandatory mask wearing. This is nothing short of criminal. They continue to argue about "rights". Ignorant and criminal.

So what is the height of stupidity in all of this? I will ignore the Trump nonsense. He is mentally ill. The height if stupidity is this:

Some religious people decided that meeting in close quarters is more important than life itself. They concluded that killing their parishioners is just fine. Why? I will tell you the inescapable conclusion....You can't pass the collection plate by zoom.

Then, instead of condemning this very irreligious behavior, the administration did nothing.

Then the Supreme Court, in an act that will for generations to come be used to point out the partisan nature of the court, decided that indeed, it is OK to make people ill and send them out into the community because.....rights. The court absolutely ignored the rights of the innocent people who will die needlessly because of this ruling. Among those who will die needlessly because of this act of monumental stupidity are those, like the nurse of which we are speaking, who are left to try to clean up this mess.

This is not just a failure of government. People on the right like to talk about how we are a largely Christian nation. They insist this means something. Well the death toll from this disease is a failure of Christianity on a national scale. If the churches had insisted on proper action the government would have had to act. Putting the collection plate ahead of the lives of their people is really speaking to young people and those on the fence. Sure some churches are doing some things but I can tell you from the front lines that very few and very little. Well. Our local Mosque is doing a lot.


@Drlee

The Country that was founded upon Individualist rebellion is dying of Individualist rebellion. True Christianity has nothing to do with it. Rather, it preaches that obedience to legitimate rulers is obedience to God, and that rebellion is a sin unto death.

So when the leadership of the medical and scientific community advises certain actions to save lives, to save society itself, it was the pure folly of rebellion and disobedience to the known truth that was in play here.

Nobody should have been out protesting and rioting over anything during this time, and the law should come down hard on anyone involved with that. Nobody should have been clamoring to end lock downs, everybody should be wearing masks and washing their hands and practicing social distancing.

Prophylactics to treat this plague should have been used, and used early, no matter who suggested using them or why. And the country should have come together like we did during the world wars, including a Manhattan Project level effort to destroy this virus with drugs and vaccines and quarantine measures.

Funds should be readily available to help working people with the hardships associated with this. Some of this was and has been done, but not enough. It became political, and in doing so it has divided this country, or rather it has laid bare the divisions that already exist.

There will come a time soon when COVID-19 will be little more than like a regular Coronavirus infection, and this time after it began a somewhat distant memory. Life will return to pretty much the way it was before the Pandemic of 2020. Except that our political institutions will have to be strengthened, exposed as they are to the public seeing how weak they truly are.
#15141315
Doug64 wrote:I’m sure for him it is much worse. As a nurse, I doubt he spent much time in combat, rather dealing with the aftermath. And I doubt he ever had a large influx of patients over an extended period of time, not having a major war our modern combat experience isn’t like that—instead, he’d likely have seen a constant trickle from the equally constant skirmishing with occasional jumps from larger clashes. So yes, an ongoing pandemic with a constant flow of a large number of patients where he can’t do anything but treat symptoms because we don’t yet have anything better would definitely be a lot more wearying both physically and emotionally.


Re Afghanistan: that's how I imagine it, too. I followed the articles on Canadian battles more closely than yours, but nothing I read put me in mind of the film footage shot in American hospital wards, which is soul draining to say the least.

That gentleman's voice is haunting me



DrLee

Good post *like*

About the collection plate. Couldnt churches etc accept donations by allowing contributions from the donars' credit card? The bank would pay them electronically. Safe and sanitary and convenient.
#15141450
Stormsmith wrote:Sorry @QatzelOk , but it's too early to stumble down rabbit holes.

My point was it's easy for people to cope safely with coronavirus. If you're promoting the notion that the virus is false simply consider that you might be wrong. If so, you'd be dicing with the devil. Use your imagination to protect yourself. That is your forte.. you have a wildly active imagination. Use it. Hedge your bet. Continue to entertain us and make us think. Stay safe. Be on the side of your society. The medical community will hail you as a hero.

Conversely, if this corona virus is a falsehood, what are you out? An hour or so of wearing a mask? Come on, you can manage. Make one with a message. Connect with half forgotten friends by phone, email, or skype. You have all the necessary gizmos. You can still ride your bike, enjoy nature and so on. The cost is negligible. All is not lost and it won't be forever.

All of this is true, Stormsmith, and I am already following all the advice. I am on it.

But at the same time, the reason I post controversial articles that "make you think" here (rather than endless stats and fear memes) is because... you can find those things (stats, advice, fearful memes) in every other media, on every page.

This being a political discussion forum, I assume that people come here to discuss and to think.

For all the other advice you offer here, it has already been offered to me (and accepted by me) elsewhere. It's nice to have a safe venue like pofo where one can actually "think."

Other spaces (millions of them) provide therapeutic spaces and medical advice, along with endless statistics and charts.
...

annatar1914 wrote:our political institutions will have to be strengthened

I strongly disagree here. Our political institutions are too strong as it is.
Our SOCIAL institutions have to be made more prominant, and our political institutions have to be redirected to serve collective needs instead of the desires of power-mad oligarchs.

STRONG politics will just destroy more kinship between humans, making us even more distant from where we want to go.
#15141464
@QatzelOk , you said in response to my observation that American political institutions are too weak to handle real crises and needed to be strengthened, that;

I strongly disagree here. Our political institutions are too strong as it is.
Our SOCIAL institutions have to be made more prominant, and our political institutions have to be redirected to serve collective needs instead of the desires of power-mad oligarchs.

STRONG politics will just destroy more kinship between humans, making us even more distant from where we want to go.


We have a basic disagreement here, because simply put there is no society at all without strong leadership institutions, even if it's just a chieftain and his warrior band leading a tribe and holding it together.

Civilization however weakens social institutions BY weakening political institutions, diffusing decision making by broadening it and bureaucratizing it so that blame is lost for failures and power to do what is right by the people is rendered impotent.
#15141648
annatar1914 wrote:Civilization however weakens social institutions BY weakening political institutions, diffusing decision making by broadening it and bureaucratizing it so that blame is lost for failures and power to do what is right by the people is rendered impotent.

False.

The upper classes in every civilization have an interest in destroying the kinship of all other classes.

And that is what they have done.

They became "political leaders" and set about destroying all other institutions. Especially kinship and community.

Look at suburbia. Or confinement "to cure a virus." Or all the ethnic cleansing and wars that have decimated cultures.
#15141703
QatzelOk wrote:False.

The upper classes in every civilization have an interest in destroying the kinship of all other classes.

And that is what they have done.

They became "political leaders" and set about destroying all other institutions. Especially kinship and community.

Look at suburbia. Or confinement "to cure a virus." Or all the ethnic cleansing and wars that have decimated cultures.


In the beginnings of cultures, the elites and non-elites are usually more or less in sync with each other. Over time, the elites and non-elites become out of step with each other for a number of reasons and then the things you describe kind of take over.

But it's not like what you imagine or those in Anarchist fantasyland.
#15141721
Republicans, who are virtually all favoring totalitarian government these days will like this. They lost the election because ALL OF THEIR LEADERS lied about covid and they all drank the KoolAid.

I am disgusted at how wimpy my party has become. Fucking unintelligent people banding together....lovely.
#15141722
annatar1914 wrote:In the beginnings of cultures, the elites and non-elites are usually more or less in sync with each other. Over time, the elites and non-elites become out of step with each other for a number of reasons and then the things you describe kind of take over.

But it's not like what you imagine or those in Anarchist fantasyland.

How our communities became hierarchies is covered by Engels in The History of the Family.

He was sure that, with the knowledge of anthropology and general education of the late 19th Century, that mankind would finally revert back to its traditional values of kinship and community.

But two world wars and an onslaught of propaganda and anti-communist hysteria have meant that the capitalist countries are still living in the early 1800s, non allowed to evolve or know where we came from.

Our ignorance is not overcome by our hyper-consumption and never will be.
#15141737
The Trump administration declined an offer from Pfizer in late summer for additional COVID-19 vaccine doses, the New York Times reported on Monday, citing people familiar with the matter.

This means that Americans may struggle to get more doses of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine given commitments it's made to other countries, the Times said. Pfizer may not be able to offer more doses to the US until next June, though it's not the only pharmaceutical company that's produced a COVID-19 vaccine.


Sigh. These mental midgets could fuck up a wet dream.

Worst. President. Ever. Supported by... Most. Unintelligent. People. Ever.
#15141952
A little late, life's been busy. Here's the latest weekly update as of Saturday:

Image

For Red State/Blue State:

US ave. deaths per million (increase, change in rate)
  • Red States 831 (78, +44)
  • Purple States 698 (98, +60)
  • Blue States 934 (67, +42)

If they were included on my weekly chart above, Blue States would rank 17th out of 90 (-1), Red States 28th (+0), and Purple States 41st (-1).
#15141958
And again Doug64 has posted his garbage "statistics" to try to excuse Trump for the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Americans. He thinks he is making a point but anyone who has finished high school can clearly see he hasn't. He has though, managed to reduce the heartbreaking deaths of so may mothers, fathers, children and friends of so many Americans to some kind of political cypher. It is disgusting, immoral, unintelligent and typical of Trump supporters.
#15141962
Image
#15141963
Well, this week has hit me like a truck, carrying 200tons of lead bricks going at 100mph. I had a patient, not much older than me basically die within 6h of admissions due to covid. Not the first covid patient I had died on me, not the first young patient that has died under my care, but it was the first one to die within the same day of admission.
Many of you guys don't understand the seriousness of what we are living. I have never seen so many patients on ECMO... what is ECMO? imagine a big machine with 2 large, garden-hose thick tubes going into large blood vessels (usually groin/neck) placed by a cardiothoracic or vascular surgeon, to oxygenate your blood because your lungs (and in some cases your heart) is not working. Now imagine living the last 1-2months of your life connected to that machine, and a dozen other (ventilators, dialysis, drips, cardiac monitor, O2 monitor, CO2 Monitor, BP monitor, NG tube, rectal tube, foley catheter, etc etc etc... while your life slowly whithers away and your body begins to decompose while still "technically alive" while your family in the greatest of agony, slowly comes to term that you life is over and that they must accept the inevitable and "pull the plug" meanwhile they are not allowed to enter the room where your body slowly shuts down. And then, many of you have the audacity to pretend that this is some sort of hoax or personal attack against the single greatest idiot that has ever entered the oval office.
#15141969
Look at the post before yours X. He does not give one rats ass about the misery or death. To him this is all economic. This is the state crushing business. OBVIOUSLY nobody he loves has died of this horror. People who consider this disease an exercise in economics are despicable. They are below contempt.

I am so sorry for the loss of your patient. I just had a client come off of ECMO after quite a time. He is alive. Sort of. Still far to ill to know what is left of him. He was born in 1989.

A friend/nurse was just diagnosed yesterday. Texted me "got the rona". Better this AM but by evening she was down big time. Sats are still good so she is resting at home. Said this evening that she had to go to the toilet and had to crawl back into bed. She is 34, runs marathons and is a mixed martial artist.

So do you think the medical system can survive the next six weeks? I know it will in some form but the toll is going to be horrendous.

Be careful Xog.
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