Racism definition & use - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15150139
noemon wrote:You moral compass is broken. When racist are racists, we do not become racists to "show them", we lead by example.


I actually don't see myself a moral person, but when I insult someone with an insult he uses for racist purposes, it doesn't make me racist, as long as I don't use it for a racist purpose myself. It's the purpose that makes him racist, not the usage.

I think it is also the message that South Park wanted to get across, but I accept that it is not something that everyone can accept.

On the other hand, I have my reservation of "leading by example" for this particular case, because of my observation on that member's posting history and style.

Nevertheless, your respectable approach should be encouraged.
#15150141
Patrickov wrote:but when I insult someone with an insult he uses for racist purposes, it doesn't make me racist, as long as I don't use it for a racist purpose myself.


It does, because your use of the racist insult makes you a racist too. You can insult him without insulting Black people. Insulting Black people is not required in any way and since it is optional, it's a matter of your personal choice and thus makes you a racist like him.

Your comparison with South Park is not the same, because South Park made it clear beyond any shadow of a doubt that theirs was satire, you do not have the capacity to do that as the medium is different.
#15150142
noemon wrote:It does, because your use of the racist insult makes you a racist too. You can insult him without insulting Black people. Insulting Black people is not required in any way and since it is optional, it's a matter of your personal choice and thus makes you a racist like him.


No. The moment he misused the insult, the insult is on him.
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By noemon
#15150143
Patrickov wrote:The moment he misused the insult, the insult is on him.


African American is not an insult. That's where your problem is.
#15150148
noemon wrote:African American is not an insult.



Re-visiting my post, I was quoting your words as follows:

noemon wrote:Apparently for (Julian658) if a person is acting in a professional manner then they are White, if they point out (Julian658's) racism they are acting like African-Americans.


I think you were implying Julian658 stereotyped African-Americans as irrational people. What I said is that, if he does think that, then it's him who acts like "African-Americans in his mind" (i.e. irrational people, as illustrated in your post), rather than anybody else, including actual African-Americans.

I think it's slightly unfair that, you had used the "African-American" phrase with the implication that it's (in Julian658's mind) a racist insult, but you then accused someone else agreeing with your observation as racist.
User avatar
By noemon
#15150150
Patrickov wrote:Re-visiting my post, I was quoting your words as follows:

I think you were implying Julian658 stereotyped African-Americans as irrational people. What I said is that, if he does think that, then it's him who acts like "African-Americans in his mind" (i.e. irrational people, as illustrated in your post), rather than anybody else, including actual African-Americans.

I think it's slightly unfair that, you had used the "African-American" phrase with the implication that it's (in Julian658's mind) a racist insult, but you then accused someone else agreeing with your observation as racist.


At no point did I use 'African American' as an insult. You did. I informed Julian that his doing so is racist and then you came in to use the same insult and engage in this rather pathetic conversation which nevertheless has been instructional. Nitpicking my post and excluding that part is just making it worse for you.

As I said earlier, when you 're wrong just admit it and move on instead of digging your heels in.
#15150154
noemon wrote:At no point did I use 'African American' as an insult. You did. I informed Julian that his doing so is racist.


I do not see my usage of that term any differently from yours. We both use the term "African American" in a restricted sense, i.e. "African American in Julian658's racist belief". I even added the adjective "stereotypical" to indicate that it's not a factual metaphor.

Also, Julian658's post #15150098 fully indicates that he's the irrational one, thus making my accusation indeed factual (against him).

With all due respect, I do think this time you are wrongly accusing me, rather than I have committed a mistake "by being racist in the same manner as Julian658".
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By noemon
#15150158
Patrickov wrote:I do not see my usage of that term any differently from yours. We both use the term "African American" in a restricted sense, i.e. "African American in Julian658's racist belief". I even added the adjective "stereotypical" to indicate that it's not a factual metaphor.


Of course it is different. There is a chasm between my use and your use.

I did not use it as an insult while you did, as did Julian for which he was correctly described as a racist and when you did too you were correctly described as a racist too.

Are you incapable of grasping this basic sentence? You made a mistake to use it as an insult, just like he did.

While I am explaining to someone that it is racist to use 'African-American' as an insult you come in here attempting to legitimise its use as an insult by using it against the culprit, under the cover, "it's the culprit I can use it". No, you want to insult the culprit you can use a whole bunch of different terms.

The fact you still insist despite all your excuses being shown to be wrong is telling me you may have ulterior motives or it could just be a case of being too arrogant to accept your mistake.
#15150161
It is not racist to use the term 'African-American'. It is racist when one is using it as an insult.
#15150164
noemon wrote:I have not seen anything like that by DrLee, no. You need to provide evidence but even if he did it would still not make it right.



This is what Dr. Lee routinely posts to me. I do not take it personally even though it is racist. For racism to work the offended party must feel highly offended. Dr. Lee cannot offend me. Nevertheless, he is quite racist.

Dr Lee's own words: Click below

viewtopic.php?p=15148048#p15148048
#15150165
Julian658 wrote:This is what Dr. Lee routinely posts to me. I do not take it personally even though it is racist. For racism to work the offended party must feel highly offended. Dr. Lee cannot offend me. Nevertheless, he is quite racist.

Dr Lee's own words: Click below

viewtopic.php?p=15148048#p15148048


You mean routinely replying to your explicit racism by using your own medicine against you. Sometimes you bring the worse in people.

As I already said: even if he did, it would still not make it right.

And I would not have spent the past pages explaining the same thing to Patrickov, who wanted to give you the same medicine.

Still assuming you are uneducated from your posts and your racism is not a racist thing, because the assumption is based on your behaviour rather than your ethnic-identity.
#15150173
noemon wrote:You mean routinely replying to your explicit racism by using your own medicine against you. Sometimes you bring the worse in people.

As I already said: even if he did, it would still not make it right.

And I would not have spent the past pages explaining the same thing to Patrickov, who wanted to give you the same medicine.

Still assuming you are uneducated from your posts and your racism is not a racist thing, because the assumption is based on your behaviour rather than your ethnic-identity.


I can recognize true racism when I see it. That is different than having to walk on eggshells 24/7 because someone else may be offended.

Dr. Lee claims to be a Republican and he often refers to himself as a very fair skin white person whose family owned slaves. I do not know any white person that talks or behaves like that. He also claims to be immensely wealthy and vastly more educated than myself. I do not take it personally.

He does not speak like a Republican and sometimes he sounds more like a black activist. I do not think that stating that is racism. If we cannot talk then Zizek is correct. I strongly suggest you watch him on the link I provided above, he is a marxist.
Last edited by Julian658 on 16 Jan 2021 18:48, edited 1 time in total.
By wat0n
#15150175
I think @Julian658 is simply following the reasoning of trash like this:

Image

I found that infographic to be as racist as it gets, but it comes from the same people who purport to know all things about race and was initially featured at the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History.
#15150183
wat0n wrote:I think @Julian658 is simply following the reasoning of trash like this:

Image

I found that infographic to be as racist as it gets, but it comes from the same people who purport to know all things about race and was initially featured at the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History.

Racism is basically assuming behaviors based on the color of the skin. And the Afro American museum was guilty of racism.
#15150188
Black racism against whites is no wonder. I once seen the example of black racism against blacks. I mean 'The Black Panther' of course. The whole movie pushes next ideas:

  • Nothing good can happen in Africa ever, Africans can't accomplish nothing, the only hope for Africans is magic supercrystals they could monopolize and live off it like Arabians do with oil (except oil exists and supercrystals don't, so nothing good can happen in Africa ever);
  • Even if something good happens, like magic supercrystals for example, Africans will still behave like savages who solve important state problems with spearfights and things like that. If you give Africans nanotechnologies the only thing they can invent with it is a nanospear.

Obviously it was applaused by every antiracist on the planet.
#15150193
Dr. Lee claims to be a Republican and he often refers to himself as a very fair skin white person whose family owned slaves. I do not know any white person that talks or behaves like that. He also claims to be immensely wealthy and vastly more educated than myself.


Of course this is mostly untrue. I do not mention being a "very fair skin" white person. In fact, I am not very fair skinned. I do not claim to be immensely wealthy. I claim to be comfortable. I have no idea how much education you have. If what you think I said is untrue about your lack of education, you are free to defend yourself.

None of what you said about me is relevant to anything we are discussing but you are looking for cover and lashing out. I understand that.

I do not take it personally.


Obviously this is not true.

He does not speak like a Republican and sometimes he sounds more like a black activist.


AAAANNNNDDDD. You can't get though a post without saying something racist. Maybe it is that education thing. What do you think?

For the record I agree with you that I frequently do not "speak like a republican". I strive not to be or say racist things. This is decidedly not Republican.
#15150195
The NMAAHC does not use that infographic.

It removed said infographic from its websites when it became apparent that the infographic “does not contribute to the productive discussion [the NMAAHC] had intended”.

https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-abo ... /whiteness

If it being used as an example of what progressives are actually claiming these days, then it is a strawman.
By wat0n
#15150198
Pants-of-dog wrote:The NMAAHC does not use that infographic.

It removed said infographic from its websites when it became apparent that the infographic “does not contribute to the productive discussion [the NMAAHC] had intended”.

https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-abo ... /whiteness

If it being used as an example of what progressives are actually claiming these days, then it is a strawman.


It was removed after heavy public pressure once it viralized. The accompanying webpage wasn't changed though.
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