Election 2020 - Page 544 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15150171
Double post.
Last edited by Tainari88 on 16 Jan 2021 17:49, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15150172
@SpecialOlympian ,
@Doug64 loves to exclude legit voters. That bullshit about jury duty and voter registration is full of holes. My husband is Puerto Rican and he speaks English as a foreign language, if he is called for jury duty in Colorado he can be legally disqualified and he can request to be excluded because his English is not 100% and having a translator at the trial for one juror is not how the legal court system works. You can have translators for plaintiffs, defendants, witnesses but not for jurors, judges or lawyers. My husband votes and he was never an immigrant that was naturalized.

He just grew up speaking Spanish first. About 8 million Boricuas got that as an issue and millions more naturalized Latin Americans who are registered voters. You are going to say no to them because they are disqualified from jury duty?

It is discriminatory.
By wat0n
#15150174
Drlee wrote:More racist bullshit from @Julian658

The answer is that obtaining an ID can be a problem for any number of people. Why do you ask? What is the problem you are trying to solve?


If most of Latin America, Europe and Canada can manage I don't see why the US can't.

@Doug64 as for the other proposals, I also see no reason for the US states not to use automatic voter registration since voting is voluntary. Again, several countries also register citizens automatically when they turn 18 or whatever the minimum voting age is. The only exception would be if voting were to become compulsory, and even then it's far from clear people shouldn't be automatically registered and compelled to fulfill their civic duties of voting. I also don't see why would an inability of a person to fulfill jury duty should disenfranchise her if she's a citizen.
By wat0n
#15150179
Rugoz wrote:To my knowledge there isn't a single country on this planet that requires voters to provide a photocopy of their ID with mail-in ballots (in Australia it can substitute the witness signature) . I checked here:
https://www.ifes.org/sites/default/file ... r_2020.pdf


Quite specific angle you looked for there. In the US you don't even need an ID to vote face to face.

For mail-in ballots, I think a signature is fine.
By Rugoz
#15150182
wat0n wrote:Quite specific angle you looked for there. In the US you don't even need an ID to vote face to face.

For mail-in ballots, I think a signature is fine.


- Depends on the state: https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identific ... s_by_state
- The question is what motivates Republicans to make demands that are not common practice anywhere (except in Alabama and Arkansas).

I was once of the opinion that Democrats should take this more seriously, but I don't think it would change anything. The Trumpsters would simply come up with even more elaborate conspiracy theories.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15150184
wat0n wrote:Quite specific angle you looked for there. In the US you don't even need an ID to vote face to face.


Depends on the state. I have to show ID to vote here.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15150185
Julian658 wrote:I am not saying Trump lost because of voter fraud. The number of fraudulent votes they found was not enough to change the election outcome.

The video catches the spontaneous reactions of white people that think most blacks are not smart enough to have ID. There is no acting here.

But, I ask you the same question: Do you think black people are ill prepared to obtain an ID card?


This does not address any of my points.
Also. It does not matter whether it was spontaneous reaction of these people, specially if there is any chance of editing and/or selectively choosing the answers of certain people over other.
It is like when you see interviews of people asking "where is paris" and then they put the answer of 4-5 people saying something "isen't paris part of canada?" or "Isent europe part of paris" or "Mexico".... yeah, perhaps those are the spontaneous answer of a few people, but how many people did they have to skip and/or ignore (not publish) their answers, to ge their funny viral video... how many people did they interview that correctly placed paris in france that they simply didn't show.
Same thing here, how many people did interview that had a more reasonable/nuanced answer that they simply did not include?
Furthermore, you conveniently did not address any of my points. Good for you, at least at a subconscious level you realize this is bullcrap.
By wat0n
#15150186
Rugoz wrote:- Depends on the state: https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identific ... s_by_state
- The question is what motivates Republicans to make demands that are not common practice anywhere (except in Alabama and Arkansas).

I was once of the opinion that Democrats should take this more seriously, but I don't think it would change anything. The Trumpsters would simply come up with even more elaborate conspiracy theories.


Rancid wrote:Depends on the state. I have to show ID to vote here.


Right, it depends a lot on the State. But I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to do, since it's done in several Western countries as well (many of which aren't even developed).

As for the trumpists, you won't convince them since this is an excuse to impose a result by force. But convincing everyone else seems logical to me.

Furthermore, the ID thing is broader than just about elections. You need a proof of identity to do things as mundane as buying alcohol, attending some colleges or driving, for instance. The fact that 11% of Americans are believed to lack one is truly amazing.
By Pants-of-dog
#15150190
Doug64 wrote:The Republican Study Committee has endorsed a bill with thirty co-signers, the Save Democracy Act, for protecting election integrity. For federal elections, the bill would require:

  • Prohibiting automatic voter registration.


So, I picked this one simply because it is the first on the list.

Can you explain why AVR is a problem and why it should be banned?
User avatar
By Julian658
#15150191
XogGyux wrote:This does not address any of my points.
Also. It does not matter whether it was spontaneous reaction of these people, specially if there is any chance of editing and/or selectively choosing the answers of certain people over other.
It is like when you see interviews of people asking "where is paris" and then they put the answer of 4-5 people saying something "isen't paris part of canada?" or "Isent europe part of paris" or "Mexico".... yeah, perhaps those are the spontaneous answer of a few people, but how many people did they have to skip and/or ignore (not publish) their answers, to ge their funny viral video... how many people did they interview that correctly placed paris in france that they simply didn't show.
Same thing here, how many people did interview that had a more reasonable/nuanced answer that they simply did not include?
Furthermore, you conveniently did not address any of my points. Good for you, at least at a subconscious level you realize this is bullcrap.

I agree, the people that did not think black were incapable of obtaining ID were likely left out. However, there were quite a few that thought blacks could not accomplish this and the poll was taken in a very liberal left wing campus.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15150192
wat0n wrote:Right, it depends a lot on the State. But I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to do, since it's done in several Western countries as well (many of which aren't even developed).

As for the trumpists, you won't convince them since this is an excuse to impose a result by force. But convincing everyone else seems logical to me.

Furthermore, the ID thing is broader than just about elections. You need a proof of identity to do things as mundane as buying alcohol, attending some colleges or driving, for instance. The fact that 11% of Americans are believed to lack one is truly amazing.


Yea, I don't have a problem with requiring IDs to vote. It's true that there are a lot of people that cannot afford IDs or to spend the time to go get one. However, I also thing that it would be easy for non-profits to help these people too.
By wat0n
#15150196
Rancid wrote:Yea, I don't have a problem with requiring IDs to vote. It's true that there are a lot of people that cannot afford IDs or to spend the time to go get one. However, I also thing that it would be easy for non-profits to help these people too.


Or make it free if you are a SNAP recipient, make it easier to do the whole thing online or by mail (and just get the card delivered at home), etc. It's not like this is somehow impossible.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15150197
In Malta, you get a special one-time voter ID card with your photo on it delivered by hand to your door. You can't vote without it. But one person can sign for all those eligible to vote in the household, and the Election Board issues them to all registered voters free of charge.


:)
User avatar
By Rancid
#15150199
wat0n wrote:
Or make it free if you are a SNAP recipient, make it easier to do the whole thing online or by mail (and just get the card delivered at home), etc. It's not like this is somehow impossible.


That would work too. However, I think that's where Republicans would step in and try to stop that.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15150201
Yea, I don't have a problem with requiring IDs to vote. It's true that there are a lot of people that cannot afford IDs or to spend the time to go get one. However, I also thing that it would be easy for non-profits to help these people too.


I would not have a problem with this if it were not such an obvious attempt at voter suppression. Then there is this. We, who participate in POFO have tech at home. We could easily copy a picture ID and put it in with a ballot. It would be an absurdly unnecessary step but we could do it. There are a great many people who do not have a printer/scanner in their home. Lots. And guess who these people are. So if thy have to leave the house to get their ID copied then that negates the convenience of voting from home.

How about we start with the assumption that voting is a right not a privilege. It is the responsibility of the government to make it as accessible as possible to every voter.

Republicans are just playing voter suppression. Nothing more.
By Pants-of-dog
#15150202
@Doug64

There seems to be no evidence linking AVR to voter fraud or any sort of election impropriety. Since that is the case, why is it included in this bill?
User avatar
By Rancid
#15150204
Drlee wrote:How about we start with the assumption that voting is a right not a privilege. It is the responsibility of the government to make it as accessible as possible to every voter.


fair enough. It is in fact a right, so we don't even have to assume that. :)
User avatar
By Julian658
#15150211
ingliz wrote:In Malta, you get a special one-time voter ID card with your photo on it delivered by hand to your door. You can't vote without it. But one person can sign for all those eligible to vote in the household, and the Election Board issues them to all registered voters free of charge.


:)


America is backwards whereas India does it right:


The Indian voter ID card is an identity document issued by the Election Commission of India to adult domiciles of India who have reached the age of 18, which primarily serves as an identity proof for Indian citizens while casting their ballot in the country's municipal, state, and national elections. It also serves as general identity, address, and age proof for other purposes such as buying a mobile phone SIM card or applying for a passport. It also serves as a Travel Document to travel to Nepal and Bhutan by Land or Air[1] It is also known as Electors Photo Identity Card (EPIC). It was first introduced in 1993 .

The voter card is issued to all Indian citizens who have attained the age of 18 years and qualify to be a voter. One has to apply on prescribed Form-6 of Election Commission attached with proof of ID, Indian nationality, age and residence.[5][6]

Those of "unsound mind", convicted of "corrupt practices", or offenses related to elections are ineligible to vote.[7]

Applicants have to submit paper Form-6 to their Booth Level officer (BLO) of the area.[8]

Applicants can also apply online on the website of the chief electoral officer given for that State[9][10] or can directly apply to the website named National Voter Service Portal (NVSP).[11]
WIKIPEDIA
  • 1
  • 542
  • 543
  • 544
  • 545
  • 546
  • 590
VP Kamala Harris endorses riots...

Further, the Texas vision of energy for the last […]

Is USA a Plutocracy?

So if 'Trumpism' applies to Trump supporters, wh[…]

Trump on trial

I would LOVE to see laid out clearly in state cou[…]

Election 2024 Thread

3) If Trump or Trump like candidate runs then the[…]