Norwegian Medicines Agency: 13 confirmed dead from Pfizer vaccine side effects - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15150079
Godstud wrote:China and the Western nations are all guilty of idiotic propaganda that is helping nobody. Everybody wants the other guy to fail, even if they have to lie about it.


The term "western nations" is propaganda itself. Because by not specifying you can say anything(and choose any western nation and then by virtue of association extend your propagandistic claim to the entire "west") if someone challenges your claim. If you do specify you are putting yourself out there for correction.

I'm sorry but since everyone is on edge in here it is better to speak specifically rather than simply just throwing things out there.

China is definitely engaging in massive propaganda. Which western nation are you talking about specifically and what propaganda is that?

This tactic of comparing one country to the abstract "west" has run its course now. The west is not a monolithic or single entity and the term is only used for propaganda and no other purpose.
#15150081
Sorry, I meant USA. That's the defacto "leader" of the West. You can dispute that but you know I'm not saying so.

I'm not the only one to see it, of course, and you'll probably call me a CCP lover because I don't automatically condemn them for everything. (This has been quite common, so you'll forgive my scepticism)

Western Sinophobia threatens international relations
The skeptical stance of Western countries, especially the United States – who has gradually become deeply embedded in a frenzied hysteria toward China – is that the Asian country is in pursuit of something hideous at all times in its interactions with other countries.

China’s donation of face masks and myriad other medical supplies to many countries and regions was criticized and stigmatized as so-called "mask diplomacy" by the U.S.

"Now, China has taken the lead in the world's COVID-19 vaccine development as Chinese drug makers are responsible for three of the six global vaccine candidates in the final stages. And the U.S. is slandering it again for seeking to use access to COVID-19 vaccines for diplomacy."

For the people who deem that China has tackled the coronavirus crisis efficiently, there is this unprecedented admiration of what the Chinese can do, such as building hospitals within days and developing a reliable vaccine against COVID-19. For others, such as Western politicians, China is a threat to Western exceptionalism and dominance.

Such a scenario is not only predictable but also unveils the fact that many Western countries are vehemently entrenched in disappointment and fury owing to the deterioration of their international competitiveness.

Beyond a doubt, China became the very first country that was able to take the perilous pandemic under control and has managed to acheive almost a full recovery since then. This is solid evidence that China has enough financial power and can provide assistance to others so they can combat the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as engaging in mutual cooperation on vaccine research and development.

"Before allowing the use of a COVID-19 vaccine in humans, regulators should evaluate safety with a range of virus strains and in more than one animal model. They should also demand strong preclinical evidence that the experimental vaccines prevent infection, even though that will probably mean waiting weeks or even months and years for the models to become available,'' said Shibo Jiang, a professor of virology at Fudan University who has been working on developing a vaccine.

Russia has introduced the coronavirus vaccine "Sputnik V," claiming a breakthrough in the global race to a vaccine before final testing was complete. However, little is known about phase-three trial plans for the Gamaleya vaccine. “I simply haven’t managed to find any published details of a protocol,” said Danny Altman, an immunologist at Imperial College London. He hopes the trial is closely tracking the immune responses of participants and looking out for any side effects.

Six vaccines for COVID-19 have entered human clinical trials with many planning to commence human trials this year. While many countries have put their hope of recovering from the pandemic on the vaccine, a New York Times article recently blamed China, claiming that in the coronavirus vaccine race, China strays from the conventional paths. China is a large, responsible, developing country, willing to help other developing countries in the face of the raging pandemic. The western media should give up fueling Sinophobia and instead should promote unity and solidarity among all in combating the pandemic.

The Trump administration has spent recent months conducting an immense campaign to exacerbate tensions with China. Most recently, U.S. President Donald Trump issued an executive order that put restrictions on transactions with the popular Chinese-based apps WeChat and TikTok, and he dispatched Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar to Taiwan. These moves were followed by the closure of the Chinese Consulate in Houston, the ban on product imports from China’s Xinjiang region owing to forced labor and Trump’s perpetual delineation of COVID-19 as the “Kung flu” or "China virus."

Republican Sen. Rick Scott of Florida, who serves on the armed services and homeland security committees, among others, spoke on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show. He said: "We have got to get this vaccine done. Unfortunately, we have evidence that communist China is trying to sabotage us or slow it down." The purpose of this statement is most likely to flare up Sinophobia, blame others for the administration’s own failings and make China for Trump’s 2020 campaign what Mexico was for his 2016 campaign. This is why many Western media outlets are asserting the false news that China is seeking to use the vaccine as a tool of diplomacy.

The Atlantic, an American magazine and multi-platform publisher, published an article titled "How China Is Planning to Win Back the World," in which it states that "As its global image takes a big hit, the Chinese Communist Party is using an arsenal of spin, obfuscation, hyperbole, and outright disinformation to win back its reputation." Another outstanding American news publication, Foreign Policy, also recently published an article with an eye-catching title, "It's Time for Western Universities to Cut Their Ties to China."

Fueling Sinophobia on baseless allegations brings no benefits to the Trump administration. On the contrary, it undermines the economy. A September 2019 study by Moody’s Analytics found that the trade war has already cost the U.S. economy nearly 300,000 jobs and an estimated 0.3% of real gross domestic product (GDP).

As the global emergency of the COVID-19 pandemic and the race for the vaccine are deepening the antagonism between China and the West, what should be the approach of western medical science to China? Science must unchain itself from political interests and pressure, and engage with China in terms of collaboration. At moments of geopolitical stress, it is surely better to avoid stoking tensions. It is surely better to ameliorate, not deteriorate, personal and institutional relationships. The present wave of anti-China sentiment has now evolved into Sinophobia that threatens healthy international relations.
https://www.dailysabah.com/opinion/op-e ... -relations



The "west" in bold.... still lower population than China, and they do generally follow the same diplomatic strategy in regards to China.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world
#15150083
First of all, the daily Sabah is Erdogan's official propaganda mouthpiece.

Second, from the entire Turkish propaganda article that you have endorsed, the only on-topic part about the vaccines is this one:

Six vaccines for COVID-19 have entered human clinical trials with many planning to commence human trials this year. While many countries have put their hope of recovering from the pandemic on the vaccine, a New York Times article recently blamed China, claiming that in the coronavirus vaccine race, China strays from the conventional paths. China is a large, responsible, developing country, willing to help other developing countries in the face of the raging pandemic. The western media should give up fueling Sinophobia and instead should promote unity and solidarity among all in combating the pandemic.


Let's break this down:

1) The New York Times is a free and independent newspaper that is not beholden to the US government quite unlike Chinese or Turkish media you are quoting.
2) Their report is correct, China has been using/selling a vaccine that has not gone through Phase 3 Clinical Trials by its own admission.

How is that "propaganda"?
#15150085
So you dismiss things because it's "Turkish"? OK... :roll: It's not "Western" so it doesn't count.


is this a better source? It's not recent but it sure shows how things kicked off.

Sinophobia: How a virus reveals the many ways China is feared
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51456056
#15150087
Godstud wrote:So you dismiss things because it's "Turkish"? OK... :roll: It's not "Western" so it doesn't count.

is this a better source? It's not recent but it sure shows how things kicked off.


I have not dismissed it, but addressed it directly. Its propaganda is evident. You are dismissing my question and argument.

Let's break this down:

1) The New York Times is a free and independent newspaper that is not beholden to the US government quite unlike Chinese or Turkish media you are quoting.
2) Their report is correct, China has been using/selling a vaccine that has not gone through Phase 3 Clinical Trials by its own admission.

How is that "propaganda"?


You made a claim that China and western nations are engaging in vaccine propaganda. We know China is, quite obviously, you have yet to show which western nation is engaging in vaccine propaganda and why.

You are also trying to create a strawman. I did not dismiss the daily sabah for being "Turkish", I did not even dismiss it, full stop. I informed you that it is Erdogan's official mouthpiece. And that it is.

Your BBC article does not contain a single argument that western nations are engaging in vaccine propaganda.

In fact, it is a year old and is merely describing anecdotal experiences of Chinese people being discriminated by average people out of fear that they may be carrying the virus.

How is that evidence that western nations are engaging in vaccine propaganda? :hmm: It's not even on-topic.
#15150205
After nearly 2 million vaccinations with the Biontech/Pfizer vaccine in Israel, less than 1% reported mostly minor side-effects.

The findings correlate with Health Ministry figures released Thursday that indicated that out of almost 2 million people vaccinated, only 1,127 people filed reports of suffering side effects, with most of those being minor.

Source
#15150322
OP article wrote:“If you are very frail, you should probably not be vaccinated,” Steinar Madsen at the Norwegian Medicines Agency said at a webinar on corona vaccine for journalists on Thursday.


Interesting. No one old or frail should get the vaccine. Only young, healthy people who already have enough natural immunity to flu and vaccines need apply.

I guess it's best to experiment on young, healthy guinea pigs.

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"I'm not getting the vaccine until it's been fully tested on humans."
Last edited by QatzelOk on 17 Jan 2021 16:17, edited 1 time in total.
#15150380
Istanbuller wrote:Only 25.000 people got vaccinated in Norway. There are 23 casualties due to the vaccine. That means 1 in every 1.000 people died from German-US vaccine.

That is a dangerous figure. No one can bear that responsibility. That is the reason why vaccination slowed down in the US and Europe. Politicians just can't have the balls to admit it.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212939.shtml


How many of those 25000 are over 70 years of age? The kill rate could be even higher per 1000 vaccinated in older folks.

This is worrying.

QatzelOk wrote:[url="[url=https://norwaytoday.info/news/norwegian-medicines-agency-links-13-deaths-to-vaccine-side-effects-those-who-died-were-frail-and-old/amp/]OP article[/url]"]“If you are very frail, you should probably not be vaccinated,” Steinar Madsen at the Norwegian Medicines Agency said at a webinar on corona vaccine for journalists on Thursday.[/url]

Interesting. No one old or frail should get the vaccine. Only young, healthy people who already have enough natural immunity to flu and vaccines need apply.

I guess it's best to experiment on young, healthy guinea pigs.

Image
"I'm not getting the vaccine until it's been fully tested on humans."


Those who needed a vaccine the most are at most danger of a vaccine and should not get it. Those who probably don't need it at all....go right ahead, guinea mouse. Get injected. The clown world is almost complete. What have I done to deserve this clown world.
#15150391
Igor Antunov wrote:How many of those 25000 are over 70 years of age? The kill rate could be even higher per 1000 vaccinated in older folks.


Most likely all of them. At this point, the oldest and most vulnerable are being vaccinated in all European countries. Hence if you vaccinate 25'000 and 23 die, that doesn't mean they died from the vaccine. If you look at 25'000 similarly frail and old people who didn't get the vaccine, a similar number probably died within the same time period. You would have to show there's a statistically significant difference between the two death rates.

That's the problem with anit-vaxxers, they simply don't get statistics.
#15151041
@Goranhammer They sound stupid? :roll: They have building codes to have rails, non-slip tiles, and other safety measures in place to prevent accidents on ramps or stairs. You ignore that every reasonable measure to prevent accidents has already been taken. People expect the same safety measure to be considered when a vaccine is created.


Would you care to rethink your ignorant statement?
#15151099
Godstud wrote:@Goranhammer They sound stupid? :roll: They have building codes to have rails, non-slip tiles, and other safety measures in place to prevent accidents on ramps or stairs. You ignore that every reasonable measure to prevent accidents has already been taken. People expect the same safety measure to be considered when a vaccine is created.


Would you care to rethink your ignorant statement?


These vaccines have gone through extensive studies and multiple trials. I guess some people just think they throw random shit in a syringe and pull the plunger on the first fool to step in line.
#15151106
Goranhammer wrote:Just so you know, this is how fucking stupid some of you sound....These vaccines have gone through extensive studies and multiple trials.

Not long-term trials. That would be impossible.

And while I agree with you that we're currently going through a period of Great Stupidity, I don't think we agree on what exactly is stupid about getting a vaccine for a well-marketed pandemic during the collapse of our Western economic rackets.

This is one of those times in History where our corrupt oligarchs get desperate. Economic collapse.

These powerful liars - our Western oligarchs - have been killing millions of innocents all over the world in order to steal money from the treasury (via unlimited defense budgets) and resources for their pals (from pillage)...and they've been doing this for my entire life and yours. This is "the record" of our own oligarchs - which we stupidly fail to comprehend or act on. (this "stupidity" is mostly manufactured by Hollywood and friends)

Any stupidity on the part of the 99% could be fatal. And yet, there is so much fabricated stupidity there, and it has all been fabricated by the same Billionaires who are waving a syringe at their captive audience.

"Let multinationals and their propaganda help you like they've helped so many others."

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