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#15150498
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Julian658

Your strawmen are getting weirder.

But let us discuss your idea that immigrants should adopt cultural norms of the new country.

Here in Canada, there is a lot of anti-indigenous sentiment. Should an immigrant start hating indigenous people as soon as they migrate? I personally married one instead. Am I making Canadians adapt to my culture (which, by the way, is just as racist against indigenous people) by not being racist?


Racism is not a specific cultural value. Racism is a universal problem related to the fact that humans evolved in tribes. Tribalism is the mother of racism. I actually admire your anti-racism fervor, but sometimes you are bit too intense about it. IN any event---are you a full fledge Canadian now? How about your wife? Does she feel Canadian?
#15150502
Julian658 wrote:Racism is not a specific cultural value. Racism is a universal problem related to the fact that humans evolved in tribes. Tribalism is the mother of racism.


Yes, this is your usual defence of racism.

Anyway, even if we assume your justification for racism is true, we do know that the way in which racism manifests itself depends on the specific cultural context.

So, Irish people have beliefs about English people and vice versa, but neither have a history of racism against Amazonian tribes that they have never known.

And now that I have taught you about how people are only racist against other groups that they have contact with, answer my question.

Should I be racist against indigenous people? Yes or no?

I actually admire your anti-racism fervor, but sometimes you are bit too intense about it. IN any event---are you a full fledge Canadian now? How about your wife? Does she feel Canadian?


How are these questions relevant?
#15150504
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, this is your usual defence of racism.

Anyway, even if we assume your justification for racism is true, we do know that the way in which racism manifests itself depends on the specific cultural context.

So, Irish people have beliefs about English people and vice versa, but neither have a history of racism against Amazonian tribes that they have never known.

And now that I have taught you about how people are only racist against other groups that they have contact with, answer my question.

Should I be racist against indigenous people? Yes or no?

Racism tends to improve as people become educated and learn how to control the amygdala. Nevertheless, studies show that the amygdala still turns on when we are in the presence of someone that is not a tribe member. However, with time the amygdala may tone it down. You should not be a racist POD.

How are these questions relevant?


You went on a long diatribe about skin color. So it is fair to ask if you have the same views on nationality. Do you consider yourself Canadian?
#15150506
Julian658 wrote:Racism tends to improve as people become educated and learn how to control the amygdala. Nevertheless, studies show that the amygdala still turns on when we are in the presence of someone that is not a tribe member. However, with time the amygdala may tone it down.


There are probably neurological changes when hetero men are in the presence of women they find attractive. This justifies rape about as much as your example justifies racism.

You should not be a racist POD.


Okay, so I should not adopt traditional Canadian norms just because I moved here. This contradicts your previous claim. I am glad we agree that you were incorrect.

You went on a long diatribe about skin color. So it is fair to ask if you have the same views on nationality. Do you consider yourself Canadian?


So this is based on your feelings about how you imagine I feel. That seems irrelevant to me. Ignored.

But you should do some research on whether or not indigenous people identify as Canadian.
#15150513
Pants-of-dog wrote:

There are probably neurological changes when hetero men are in the presence of women they find attractive. This justifies rape about as much as your example justifies racism.




For most, racism declines with exposure.

The underlying issue here is not one that gets attention. We have something like a caste system, and poor Blacks are the underclass in that system. This sets off reactions that are as counterproductive as they are short sighted.

The result of that is that poor Blacks live where few can get good jobs, there is often high levels of pollution that Whites would not tolerate. Most schools are terrible, city services like fire and police are substandard. It's a long list.

This is actually so simple it hurts to think about. Provide those communities with the basics. Basic health care, a decent education, police that serve the community, transportation that makes it possible to get to a job. Again, long list.

While apartheid has been dismantled, the world apartheid created has not.
#15150519
Pants-of-dog wrote:There are probably neurological changes when hetero men are in the presence of women they find attractive. This justifies rape about as much as your example justifies racism.


Rape and racism are not the same thing POD. However, I do agree a heterosexual man may suddenly be attracted to a good looking woman do to the biology of mating. As humans became more civilized the impulse to go after the female was easily controlled. Non-racist people do the same when they encounter a member of another tribe. If they do this often it becomes second nature. Familiarity with members of the other tribe reduces tribalism and hence racism. The "isms" goes down even more if the two groups share the same cultural values. That is why I prefer mono-culturalism over multiculturalism.

Okay, so I should not adopt traditional Canadian norms just because I moved here. This contradicts your previous claim. I am glad we agree that you were incorrect.

So this is based on your feelings about how you imagine I feel. That seems irrelevant to me. Ignored.

But you should do some research on whether or not indigenous people identify as Canadian.


If indigenous people in Canada adopted Canadian culture and if Anglo Canadians adopted indigenous culture (shared values) racism would decrease.

Have you adopted Canadian values or do you continue to be a strict Latin American? BTW, Latin Americans and North Americans share a lot of values so this should be rather easy.
#15150523
Julian658 wrote:Rape and racism are not the same thing POD. However, I do agree a heterosexual man may suddenly be attracted to a good looking woman do to the biology of mating. As humans became more civilized the impulse to go after the female was easily controlled. Non-racist people do the same when they encounter a member of another tribe. If they do this often it becomes second nature. Familiarity with members of the other tribe reduces tribalism and hence racism. The "isms" goes down even more if the two groups share the same cultural values. That is why I prefer mono-culturalism over multiculturalism.


Yes, thank you for explaining why your biology based defence of racism is incorrect.

If indigenous people in Canada adopted Canadian culture and if Anglo Canadians adopted indigenous culture (shared values) racism would decrease.


I have no idea if this is true. This seems like more unsupported justification for racist practices.

Have you adopted Canadian values or do you continue to be a strict Latin American? BTW, Latin Americans and North Americans share a lot of values so this should be rather easy.


Well, since you already agreed that I should not be racist, you should be able to logically conclude that I am not following all the traditional Canadian practices. So, am I Canadian?

And yes, many Latin American societies are racist against the local indigenous people like Canadians. So, am I Chilean if I am not racist against the Mapuche?
#15150527
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, thank you for explaining why your biology based defence of racism is incorrect.


OK. POD. Please enlighten me! Tell me why I am wrong. I am always willing to learn.

I have no idea if this is true. This seems like more unsupported justification for racist practices.


One would think that shared cultural values among different ethnicities reduces racism. Do you think otherwise? If so------please explain.


Well, since you already agreed that I should not be racist, you should be able to logically conclude that I am not following all the traditional Canadian practices. So, am I Canadian?


POD. racism is not a value specific to a culture. That sort of "ism" is universal.

And yes, many Latin American societies are racist against the local indigenous people like Canadians. So, am I Chilean if I am not racist against the Mapuche?


I got you. IN Latin America the racism has been somewhat ameliorated by some mixing between the indigenous and the Spaniard types. Mixing is another way of reducing racism. However, mixing does not cure classism.
#15150528
late wrote:For most, racism declines with exposure.

I agree!!!

The underlying issue here is not one that gets attention. We have something like a caste system, and poor Blacks are the underclass in that system. This sets off reactions that are as counterproductive as they are short sighted.


It has been said that the day racism ends the battle against classism starts.


The result of that is that poor Blacks live where few can get good jobs, there is often high levels of pollution that Whites would not tolerate. Most schools are terrible, city services like fire and police are substandard. It's a long list.

This is actually so simple it hurts to think about. Provide those communities with the basics. Basic health care, a decent education, police that serve the community, transportation that makes it possible to get to a job. Again, long list.


Politicians have been saying this for at least six decades. The 1965 War on Poverty was supposed to fix this. What happened ? Most large cities with large poverty pockets have been under Democrat control for over 50 years. What is going on?

While apartheid has been dismantled, the world apartheid created has not.


I agree!

Why are you prescribing the same plan that failed in the past?
#15150532
Julian658 wrote:OK. POD. Please enlighten me! Tell me why I am wrong. I am always willing to learn.


No, thank you. You have shown yourself unwilling to learn on so many occasions that I no longer believe you when you say this. You may believe it. You may not. It is irrelevant.

One would think that shared cultural values among different ethnicities reduces racism. Do you think otherwise? If so------please explain.


Maybe, maybe not. I doubt you have enough knowledge about indigenous issues to adequately discuss this in terms of the relationship between Canada and the indigenous communities that live here.

And if you ask me to explain it to you, please refer to the beginning of this post.

POD. racism is not a value specific to a culture. That sort of "ism" is universal.


I literally just explained this to you. This inability to address what I have actually wrote is why I doubt you are here to learn.

I got you. IN Latin America the racism has been somewhat ameliorated by some mixing between the indigenous and the Spaniard types. Mixing is another way of reducing racism. However, mixing does not cure classism.


Maybe, maybe not. I doubt you have enough knowledge about indigenous issues to adequately discuss this in terms of the relationship between Chile and the indigenous communities that live there.
#15150543
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, thank you. You have shown yourself unwilling to learn on so many occasions that I no longer believe you when you say this. You may believe it. You may not. It is irrelevant.

Your explanations are often obtuse. Just tell me why I am wrong and why you are right in a simple paragraph. I will not even ask you for citations.

Maybe, maybe not. I doubt you have enough knowledge about indigenous issues to adequately discuss this in terms of the relationship between Canada and the indigenous communities that live here.


Please tell me about it in two sentences.

Maybe, maybe not. I doubt you have enough knowledge about indigenous issues to adequately discuss this in terms of the relationship between Chile and the indigenous communities that live there.


As a Latin American I am well aware that being born indigenous or European is a big difference. No difference than in North America. It is no accident that most poor immigrants from Latin America are mostly indigenous and poor.
#15150550
@Julian658

No, thank you. You have shown yourself unwilling to learn on so many occasions that I no longer believe you when you say this. You may believe it. You may not. It is irrelevant.

If you want to show me that you are willing to learn, please show that you are doing research on the subject and then I will tell you if you are right or wrong.
By late
#15150552
Julian658 wrote:

Politicians have been saying this for at least six decades. The 1965 War on Poverty was supposed to fix this. What happened ? Most large cities with large poverty pockets have been under Democrat control for over 50 years. What is going on?




What happened is that they didn't fix it.

The 3 largest reasons are they didn't want to spend what it would take, they didn't want to piss off the South that much, and LBJ sucked at managing programs.
#15150570
late wrote:What happened is that they didn't fix it.

The 3 largest reasons are they didn't want to spend what it would take, they didn't want to piss off the South that much, and LBJ sucked at managing programs.

There are hundreds of social programs designed to help the poor. The war on poverty had a bit of a success for about 5 years and then it flattened out. Patrick Monyham correctly predicted the program would destroy the integrity of families.

Image

Poverty went down quite a bit after the end of WWII.


I have said this before. Poverty in the black community is due to slavery and Jim Crow under the direction of the Democratic Party. And these are the same guys that have done very little in the last 50 years to fix the problem.

Landmark Legislation: The Civil Rights Act of 1964

On February 10, 1964, the House of Representatives voted in favor of the bill, HR 7152. When the House-passed bill arrived in the Senate on February 26, 1964, Majority Leader Mike Mansfield placed it directly on the Senate calendar rather than refer it to the Judiciary Committee, chaired by civil rights opponent James Eastland of Mississippi. On March 9, when Mansfield moved to take up the measure, southern senators launched a filibuster against the bill. The Senate debated the bill for sixty days, including seven Saturdays.

At the time, a two-thirds vote, or sixty-seven senators, was required to invoke cloture and cut off debate in the Senate. Since southern Democrats opposed the legislation, votes from a substantial number of senators in the Republican minority would be needed .


Paradoxically, the Republicans passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and many Democrats opposed the bill.

As I told you once before, I actually believe in reparations for slavery. If I was king I would make sure every girl or boy who is a descendant of slaves gets to go to a boys and girls military style prep school for 12 years. I would also add post high school education for free. If the home is unstable then the kids are interned. The discipline would be no different than basic training in a military institution. The mission would be to graduate top quality citizens. Those that cannot hack it will be allowed to go. It is best to save some than none. Otherwise, we are just spinning out wheels with more of the same. If I was a parent I would take that choice in a heartbeat.

However, it will never happen because the left wing Democrat politicians need disenfranchised people to get elected to power.
By late
#15150574
Julian658 wrote:
There are hundreds of social programs designed to help the poor. The war on poverty had a bit of a success for about 5 years and then it flattened out. Patrick Monyham correctly predicted the program would destroy the integrity of families.

Image

Poverty went down much faster after the end of WWII.


I have said this before. Poverty in the black community is due to slavery and Jim Crow under the direction of the Democratic Party. And these are the same guys that have done very little in the last 50 years to fix the problem.

Landmark Legislation: The Civil Rights Act of 1964

On February 10, 1964, the House of Representatives voted in favor of the bill, HR 7152. When the House-passed bill arrived in the Senate on February 26, 1964, Majority Leader Mike Mansfield placed it directly on the Senate calendar rather than refer it to the Judiciary Committee, chaired by civil rights opponent James Eastland of Mississippi. On March 9, when Mansfield moved to take up the measure, southern senators launched a filibuster against the bill. The Senate debated the bill for sixty days, including seven Saturdays.

At the time, a two-thirds vote, or sixty-seven senators, was required to invoke cloture and cut off debate in the Senate. Since southern Democrats opposed the legislation, votes from a substantial number of senators in the Republican minority would be needed .


Paradoxically, the Republicans passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and many Democrats opposed the bill.

As I told you once before, I actually believe in reparations for slavery. If I was king I would make sure every girl or boy who is a descendant of slaves gets to go to a boys and girls military style prep school for 12 years. I would also add post high school education for free. If the home is unstable then the kids are interned. The discipline would be no different than basic training in a military institution. The mission would be to graduate top quality citizens. Those that cannot hack it will be allowed to go. It is best to save some than none. Otherwise, we are just spinning out wheels with more of the same. If I was a parent I would take that choice in a heartbeat.

However, it will never happen because the left wing Democrat politicians need disenfranchised people to get elected to power.



You talk a lot, but you don't say much.

There were not hundreds of programs back then. Honesty counts.

It's spelled Moynihan. I went over that when I said LBJ sucked at managing programs. Btw, Moynihan made his share of mistakes. Every big programs needs to be adjusted when it hits the world, LBJ never did that, and the program wound up creating big programs.

That says nothing about the intrinsic value or ability of social programs. It says Americans are extremely good at screwing up, and crap at fixing those mistakes.

Direct reparations wouldn't work.
#15150581
late wrote:You talk a lot, but you don't say much.

There were not hundreds of programs back then. Honesty counts.

It's spelled Moynihan. I went over that when I said LBJ sucked at managing programs. Btw, Moynihan made his share of mistakes. Every big programs needs to be adjusted when it hits the world, LBJ never did that, and the program wound up creating big programs.

That says nothing about the intrinsic value or ability of social programs. It says Americans are extremely good at screwing up, and crap at fixing those mistakes.

Direct reparations wouldn't work.

I should have googled his name. I am not a native English speaker and that is a difficult one. As of today there are MANY programs------------------------ that is what I meant to say.

The question that begs an answer is why continue to do more of the same. Why do politicians make the same speech every four years? They are just platitudes and sadly some people buy into that.

The only way out is a top notch education. Kids form a poor home environment cannot get a top education even if you build a one billon dollar school down the street. The main issue is parenting. That is why I propose a military type school where the parent is a drill Sgt. type that can instill discipline and high morale. I VOTE FOR A MILITARY BOARDING SCHOOL.
#15150657
@Julian658
I was king I would make sure every girl or boy who is a descendant of slaves gets to go to a boys and girls military style prep school for 12 years. I would also add post high school education for free. If the home is unstable then the kids are interned. The discipline would be no different than basic training in a military institution.


Yes. We understand that your racism is so pernicious that you believe in concentration camps for black children. We remember. We also understand that your low expectations of black people is so pronounced that you believe that whatever education they are going to get must be beaten into them.

Fucking racist. I am surprised you are allowed to post this stuff. I am glad that you are though because your brand of racism is very common these days and it is good to showcase it.

Racists are not very smart people. Take this any way that you like. Just remember that I am willing to make allowances given that you come from the least educated minority group in America.
#15150666
Drlee wrote:@Julian658

Yes. We understand that your racism is so pernicious that you believe in concentration camps for black children. We remember. We also understand that your low expectations of black people is so pronounced that you believe that whatever education they are going to get must be beaten into them.

Fucking racist. I am surprised you are allowed to post this stuff. I am glad that you are though because your brand of racism is very common these days and it is good to showcase it.

Racists are not very smart people. Take this any way that you like. Just remember that I am willing to make allowances given that you come from the least educated minority group in America.


In all honesty, he has really exceeded all limits, I'm just curious now to see how far he is going to push the envelope.

The guy is just shameless, he could have said "all children from broken families" or all "children that have some need for it" instead he said "all children of former slaves" even if say those children are highly educated in fact more educated than him, making it clear this is all about low-grade racism of the eschaton order.

Okay dear Julian 658, take this as warning, next racist thing you say, you get a week ban and the next is perma ban.
#15150668
Julian658 wrote:Kamala is more white than your average white person. However, she is clever and knows what to say in the right moment.


She's a politician, this is part of the game, it's probably smart politically. Know your audience right? No different than when Obama starts to talk all folksy when he's speaking to a folksy crowd.

Edit: I agree with some posters that there's some racial stereotypes here, assuming that being well-educated and successful is "white" and not black/brown.
#15150670
Drlee wrote:@Julian658

Yes. We understand that your racism is so pernicious that you believe in concentration camps for black children. We remember. We also understand that your low expectations of black people is so pronounced that you believe that whatever education they are going to get must be beaten into them.

Fucking racist. I am surprised you are allowed to post this stuff. I am glad that you are though because your brand of racism is very common these days and it is good to showcase it.

Racists are not very smart people. Take this any way that you like. Just remember that I am willing to make allowances given that you come from the least educated minority group in America.


I believe in reparations for the descendants of slaves. I also believe that they should get free tuition in high-end girls or boys military style prep schools to obtain a world class education. By the way the very rich do this all the time with their kids. If you think that is racism you need to seek counseling.

Obviously those with high income would be disqualified.
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