[Fasces]

If it's just thousands it sounds like part of the clinical trial to me. I don't tend to put much stock in Western reporting on China so I'll look into it.

[noemon]

First, workers at state-owned companies got dosed. Then government officials and vaccine company staff. Up next: teachers, supermarket employees and people traveling to risky areas abroad.

Has China denied this?

[Fasces]

Has China denied this?

I'm a teacher at a Chinese public school and no one at my school got a vaccine. Qingdao even had an outbreak in October during which we all got tested, but not a vaccine.

I'm sure you've read an English language paper about Greece and been aghast at simple misinformation, even non-maliciously. I simply don't consider most Western news about China to be that reliable, and would take it with a grain of salt.

[noemon]

I'm sure you've read an English language paper about Greece and been aghast. I simply don't consider most Western news about China to be that reliable, and would take it with a grain of salt.

Several in fact, but there is nothing in that article to be aghast about. It's a report not an editorial.

[Fasces]

Several in fact, but there is nothing in that article to be aghast about. It's a report not an editorial.

Misinformation doesn't have to be malicious, is all I mean. The 'factual reports' are generally still flawed just because of different ways Westerns and Chinese perceive certain language and prioritize certain facts over others.

[noemon]

This article reports that all these people have been vaccinated since September way before Phase 3 Clinical Trials.

China can deny this report if she feels it's wrong as she routinely does anyway. Have not see any denial but maybe you have more information than us outside China.

[Fasces]

Plenty of people have been vaccinated before Phase 3 trials conclude. That's what Phase 3 trials are. Maybe they expanded the scope of the trials, but I don't doubt, given China's anal-retentive desire for meaningless legal structures, it still meets the regulatory definition of a clinical trial.

[wat0n]

In all fairness, I don't think the Chinese would be allowing other governments to conduct their own arms of the Phase 3 if they didn't think the vaccine has a reasonable chance to work as well as those made in Western countries.

[noemon]

In all fairness...

I agree, but you should really see it in the context of the OP.

it still meets the regulatory definition of a clinical trial.

Not really and certainly not according to your previous posts.

[Drlee]

@Igor Antunov

No dressing up of headline can change the dangers of experimental RNA vaccines. Covid does not justify such an experimental drug.

Both of these statements are simply your opinion. Nothing more. I think Neoman is correct in his evaluation of your motives. Good luck with that comrade.

Can you elaborate which "dangers" it is about which you are speaking? Specifically who is covering up all of these bad outcomes for we have seen exactly none so far? (Other than the vanishingly rare anaphylactic shock case, none of which have been fatal as far as I have read.)

But don't take any vaccine if you are more frightened of it than you are of Covid. Irrational fears can seem very real.

[Igor Antunov]

@Igor Antunov



Both of these statements are simply your opinion. Nothing more. I think Neoman is correct in his evaluation of your motives. Good luck with that comrade.

Can you elaborate which "dangers" it is about which you are speaking? Specifically who is covering up all of these bad outcomes for we have seen exactly none so far? (Other than the vanishingly rare anaphylactic shock case, none of which have been fatal as far as I have read.)

But don't take any vaccine if you are more frightened of it than you are of Covid. Irrational fears can seem very real.

It's my opinion that Norwegian medical authorities have found that side effects of the pfizer vaccine have killed at least 23 people? And that a virus that only kills the elderly in any statistically relevant number can be used to justify inoculating those people with a vaccine that is potentially killing them-when there is a much safer alternative with 100% efficacy at preventing medium and severe cases already available? Ok. Let's ignore the facts and just roll with your fantasy instead if it works for you. Clown world is only accelerating China's century. Keep at it tiger.

[Rugoz]

It's my opinion that Norwegian medical authorities have found that side effects of the pfizer vaccine have killed at least 23 people? And that a virus that only kills the elderly in any statistically relevant number can be used to justify inoculating those people with a vaccine that is potentially killing them-when there is a much safer alternative with 100% efficacy at preventing medium and severe cases already available? Ok. Let's ignore the facts and just roll with your fantasy instead if it works for you. Clown world is only accelerating China's century. Keep at it tiger.

The only clown here is you.

In case you haven't noticed.

[Goranhammer]

I'm taking it as soon as I can. I'm a libertarian with a healthy distrust of state, but I'm not a misanthrope that's looking for the Boogeyman behind every state corner.

Other people can die on principle. I'm good, thanks.

[Drlee]

And that a virus that only kills the elderly in any statistically relevant number

I see. You consider 8000 Californians under 65 who have died of the disease as not "statistically relevant". That is not being a scientist. It is being a sociopath. Neoman is right. You are trying to level-up.

... can be used to justify inoculating those people with a vaccine that is potentially killing them-when there is a much safer alternative with 100% efficacy at preventing medium and severe cases already available?

What vaccine is that? If you are considering the Chinese vaccine then you have a problem. It is simply not available. If you want to have China put the rest of the world on hold and send us a few hundreds of millions of doses though I am sure we can find some interest in them.

[Igor Antunov]

I see. You consider 8000 Californians under 65 who have died of the disease as not "statistically relevant". That is not being a scientist. It is being a sociopath. Neoman is right. You are trying to level-up.

Almost always have comorbidity factors. One being extreme obesity. Aren't over 70% of American casualties black? They have disproportional representation of obesity due to low income, reliance on public transport in the inner cities and subsisting on junk food. People also die in their thousands every year from recreational drug use, once again blacks being overrepresented. Where's the experimental emergency cure for highly addictive substances? I read MDMA can wean people off addiction. Oh right nobody cares.

What vaccine is that? If you are considering the Chinese vaccine then you have a problem. It is simply not available. If you want to have China put the rest of the world on hold and send us a few hundreds of millions of doses though I am sure we can find some interest in them.

The virus does not warrant rushing to an experimental drug. It's no deadlier than the seasonal flu for anyone under 65. Wait for alternatives. IF you have old relatives, confine them to their rooms.

You're struggling to keep afloat the broken narrative and stave off my perfectly reasonable explanation as to why I don't condone rushing to experimental treatment over this, so now you're attacking my character. Nice game-plan.

[Drlee]

@Igor Antunov

Your response is absurd but I am sure your Chinese masters will like them. They may not like a classic sociopath outside of government though.

[MistyTiger]

I have a cousin living in Beijing with his family. I can ask him about the vaccine response if you like. If you have any specific questions I can ask him, let me know.

He used to live in Shanghai. I get the cities mixed up.

[Politics_Observer]

@Igor Antunov @Drlee

I think you are a Serb from the Balkans Igor who has an axe to grind with the U.S. given the NATO bombing campaign of Serbia a long time ago in the 1999 over Kosovo. Perhaps, you were also a participant in the Balkan Wars that took place in Bosnia in the early 1990s. A Bosnian Serb so to speak. You probably still hold a grudge over our intervention to bring the Serbs to the negotiating table to sign the Dayton Peace Accords in Bosnia. That is my guess. It seems you might have immigrated to Australia after the Balkan Wars of the 1990s. I could be wrong though.

You certainly seem to have the sense of humor and mannerisms of a Serb, which Serbs can be pretty funny at times. Those things happened a long time ago and you just have to let it go and let the past be the past and look to the future. All that stuff of the 1990s is over and the past. It's not the future. Certainly China is a powerful a country. But I wouldn't admire China's government too much though given it is not exactly a democratic government. Don't be so sure as well that China will "rule over" and "triumph over" the U.S. either. We'll remain a powerful country as well for the foreseeable future.

Here is a serious question I have Igor, what do you think of the idea of the U.S. building close ties with Serbia (I ask this question from the assumption that you are a Serb from the Balkans who immigrated to Australia)?

[Igor Antunov]

@Drlee clearly has an irrational axe to grind. He's out to destroy me, can't work with that. Take a chill pill.

@Igor Antunov @Drlee

I think you are a Serb from the Balkans Igor who has an axe to grind with the U.S. given the NATO bombing campaign of Serbia a long time ago in the 1999 over Kosovo. Perhaps, you were also a participant in the Balkan Wars that took place in Bosnia in the early 1990s. A Bosnian Serb so to speak. You probably still hold a grudge over our intervention to bring the Serbs to the negotiating table to sign the Dayton Peace Accords in Bosnia. That is my guess. It seems you might have immigrated to Australia after the Balkan Wars of the 1990s. I could be wrong though.

You certainly seem to have the sense of humor and mannerisms of a Serb, which Serbs can be pretty funny at times. Those things happened a long time ago and you just have to let it go and let the past be the past and look to the future. All that stuff of the 1990s is over and the past. It's not the future. Certainly China is a powerful a country. But I wouldn't admire China's government too much though given it is not exactly a democratic government. Don't be so sure as well that China will "rule over" and "triumph over" the U.S. either. We'll remain a powerful country as well for the foreseeable future.

Here is a serious question I have Igor, what do you think of the idea of the U.S. building close ties with Serbia (I ask this question from the assumption that you are a Serb from the Balkans who immigrated to Australia)?

I think all countries should build better ties and trade. It's a win/win. Migration should be tightly controlled because it has an economy cost/burden. We should seek to improve internal economic situation before allowing for large demographic movements. Professionals should be allowed to move to other countries according to demand on the basis of their qualifications. I'd be happy for Serbia to increase ties and trade with the US. Problem is Americans (I've been there, I've noticed it so much directly and indirectly by observation why media over the years) tend to have a black and white world view, at least the foreign policy makers. It's an ingrained ideology and it seeks to dominate and dictate, not cohabitate or keep things strictly complimentary. For example, Americans and many anglos unironically believe that their system is superior, and can fit all cultures and nations of the planet, without exception. This is after having destroyed multiple countries and killed millions in the past decades. They unironically believe their own extremist propaganda under direct spotlight of their own atrocities. It's alarming. I don't care about Serbia, it's not the biggest tragedy in this saga. Look to Libya. What a disaster for its people and for north Africa as a whole.

Due to this China is a better prospect for for all developing countries as its not interested in ideology export, only goods export. US can't be trusted. I don't need to elaborate on why, especially when it comes to the Balkans. To this day the CIA is supporting Albanian jihadist elements in northern Macedonia for example. This is not an example of a fitting diplomatic and trade partner. There is nothing irrational about keeping such a corrupt, destructive regime at arms reach. It is now destroying America itself and the lives of millions of Americans. Maybe one day the regular people wake up to their dystopian existence...but the propaganda conditioning is strong. I have low hopes.

[Politics_Observer]

@Igor Antunov

I personally have put those Balkan wars behind me and I don't judge Serbia based on the past but on what it does today. It seems that Serbia has a better government these days. I think the U.S. should consider increasing trade and relations with Serbia.