Alexey Navalny detained on return to Moscow - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15150894
noemon wrote:He is the Keir Starmer of Russia.

Christ almighty, nothing I can say can top this as an insult. Even I have more respect for Navalny than that. :lol:

noemon wrote:You called Navalny a "neo-nazi"

Please link to the post where I called Navalny a neo Nazi. I said he has ties to the far right, which isn't exactly unknown.

noemon wrote:and claimed that Russia will go the way of Ukraine and become a neo-nazi shithole, god forbid these people actually elect someone in a free election without Putin looking over their shoulders.

This really is just a straight up lie. Do better.

noemon wrote:You used the term "neo-nazi" numerous times to refer to these people and are now literally crying for allegedly being called a "neo-nazi" despite the fact that at no point did I use that term against you.

You said that I am "anti-slav" and think Russians and Ukrainians are inferior and cannot be trusted with democracy. You didn't say "neo Nazi", but the implication is clear. Also, "literally crying"? What are you, a teenager? Grow up.

noemon wrote:You 're the one who brought "neo-nazis" into this thread in a bad faith attempt to delegitimise the Russian Opposition Leader that has been poisoned and imprisoned. It is only fair you feel the sting of you own arguments turned around on their heads. Perhaps you will think twice in the future.

Lol. There are no words.

noemon wrote:Once this propaganda meme was no longer workable for you, you claimed that he is a spy of CIA and MI6

I did, did I? If so, I'm sure you'll be able to show the direct quote where I said this.

noemon wrote:You have no retort and are now whinging because you don't know what to say. Perhaps you should think twice before you post bullshit that are so easily destroyed.

As a general rule, when someone feels the need to insist over and over that they have "destroyed" someone... They haven't. Lol.

noemon wrote:What is "good faith" to you?

Addressing the substance of what your opponent says, rather than starting from a place of childish insults and absurd misrepresentation of their position. Pretty simple.

noemon wrote:Good faith is being honest and true instead of operating from assumptions, prejudices and propagandistic points of view.

Lol. You have certainly demonstrated all of these things in abundance today!
#15150895
Alexei Navalny, the more I read about him the more I take my hat off. This is a guy to be proud of a lot more than former communist appointees.

In 2008, Navalny invested 300,000 rubles in stocks of 5 oil and gas companies: Rosneft, Gazprom, Gazprom Neft, Lukoil, and Surgutneftegas, thus becoming an activist shareholder.[44] As such, he began to aim at making the financial assets of these companies transparent. This is required by law, but there are allegations that high-level managers of these companies are involved in theft and resisting transparency.[45] Other activities deal with wrongdoings by Russian police, such as Sergei Magnitsky's case.

In November 2010, Navalny published[46] confidential documents about Transneft's auditing. According to Navalny's blog, about 4 billion were stolen by Transneft's leaders during the construction of the Eastern Siberia–Pacific Ocean oil pipeline.[47][48]

In December 2010, Navalny announced the launch of the RosPil project, which seeks to bring to light corrupt practices in the government procurement process.[49] The project takes advantage of existing procurement regulation that requires all government requests for tender to be posted online. Information about winning bids must be posted online as well. The name RosPil is a pun on the slang term "raspil" (wikt:ru:распил), the embezzlement of state funds.

In May 2011, Navalny launched RosYama (literally "Russian Hole"), a project that allowed individuals to report potholes and track government responses to complaints.[50]

In August 2011, Navalny publicized papers related to a scandalous real estate deal[51] between the Hungarian and Russian governments.[52][53] According to the papers, Hungary sold a former embassy building in Moscow for USD 21 million to an offshore company of Viktor Vekselberg, who immediately resold it to the Russian government for USD 116 million. Irregularities in the paper trail implied collusion. Three Hungarian officials responsible for the deal were detained in February 2011.[54] It is unclear whether any official investigation was conducted on the Russian side.

In February 2012, Navalny concluded that Russian federal money going to Ramzan Kadyrov's Chechen Interior Ministry was being spent "in a totally shadowy and fraudulent way."[55]

The Levada Center survey showed that 58% of surveyed Russians supported the 2017 Russian protests against government corruption. ref>"Акции протеста 12 июня Archived 18 February 2020 at the Wayback Machine" (in Russian). Levada Centre. 13 June 2017.</ref>
In May 2012, Navalny accused Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov of corruption, stating that companies owned by Roman Abramovich and Alisher Usmanov had transferred tens of millions of dollars to Shuvalov's company, allowing Shuvalov to share in the profit from Usmanov's purchase of the British steel company Corus.[56][57] Navalny posted scans of documents to his blog showing the money transfers.[57] Usmanov and Shuvalov stated the documents Navalny had posted were legitimate, but that the transaction had not violated Russian law. "I unswervingly followed the rules and principles of conflict of interest," said Shuvalov. "For a lawyer, this is sacred".[56]

In July 2012, Navalny posted documents on his blog allegedly showing that Alexander Bastrykin, head of the Investigative Committee of Russia, owned an undeclared business in the Czech Republic. The posting was described by the Financial Times as Navalny's "answering shot" for having had his emails leaked during his arrest in the previous month.[58]

In March 2017, Navalny launched the campaign He Is Not Dimon to You, accusing Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev of corruption. The authorities either ignored the accusation or argued that it was made by a "convicted criminal" and not worth comment. On 26 March, Navalny organized a series of anti-corruption rallies in cities across Russia. In some cities, the rallies were sanctioned by authorities, but in others, including Moscow and Saint Petersburg, they were not allowed. The Moscow police said that 500 people had been detained, but according to the human-rights group OVD-Info, 1,030 people were detained in Moscow alone, including Navalny himself.[59][60][61] On 27 March, he was fined 20,000 rubles minimum for organizing an illegal protest, and jailed for 15 days for resisting arrest.[61]

In August 2018, Navalny alleged Viktor Zolotov stole at least US$29 million from procurement contracts for the National Guard of Russia. Shortly after his allegations against Zolotov, Navalny was imprisoned for staging protests in January 2018. Subsequently, Viktor Zolotov published a video message on 11 September challenging Navalny to a duel and promising to make "good, juicy mincemeat" of him.[62][63]

........


On 30 May 2013, Sergey Sobyanin, the mayor of Moscow, argued an elected mayor is an advantage for the city compared to an appointed one,[105] and on 4 June, he announced he would meet President Vladimir Putin and ask him for a snap election, mentioning the Muscovites would agree the governor elections should take place in the city of Moscow and the surrounding Moscow Oblast simultaneously.[106] On 6 June, the request was granted,[107] and the next day, the Moscow City Duma appointed the election on 8 September, the national voting day.[108]


Navalny, in front of his electorate, asking Muscovites to vote for him in August 2013
On 3 June, Navalny announced he would run for the post.[109] To become an official candidate, he would need either seventy thousand signatures of Muscovites or to be pegged for the office by a registered party, and then to collect 110 signatures of municipal deputies from 110 different subdivisions (three quarters of Moscow's 146). Navalny chose to be pegged by a party, RPR–PARNAS (which did peg him, but this move sharpened relations within the party; after one of its three co-chairmen and the original founder, Vladimir Ryzhkov, had left the party, he said this had been one of the signs the party was "being stolen from him").[110] Among the six candidates who were officially registered as such, only two (Sobyanin and Communist Ivan Melnikov) were able to collect the required number of the signatures themselves, and the other four were given a number of signatures by the Council of Municipal Formations, following a recommendation by Sobyanin,[111] to overcome the requirement (Navalny accepted 49 signatures, and other candidates accepted 70, 70, and 82).[112]

On 17 July, Navalny was registered as one of the six candidates for the Moscow mayoral election.[113] However, on 18 July, he was sentenced for a five-year prison term for the embezzlement and fraud charges that were declared in 2012. Several hours after his sentencing, he pulled out of the race and called for a boycott of the election.[114] However, later that day, the prosecution office requested the accused should be freed on bail and travel restrictions, since the verdict had not yet taken legal effect, saying they had previously followed the restrictions, Navalny was a mayoral candidate, and an imprisonment would thus not comply with his rule for equal access to the electorate.[115] On his return to Moscow after being freed pending an appeal, he vowed to stay in the race.[116] The Washington Post has speculated that his release was ordered by the Kremlin in order to make the election and Sobyanin appear more legitimate.[20]

Navalny's campaign was based mainly on fundraising: out of 103.4 million rubles (approximately million as of the election day[rates 1]), the total size of his electoral fund, 97.3 million ( million) were transferred by individuals throughout Russia;[125] such a number is unprecedented in Russia.[126] It achieved a high profile through an unprecedentedly large campaign organization that involved around 20,000 volunteers who passed out leaflets and hung banners, as well as several campaign rallies a day around the city;[127] they were the main driving force for the campaign.[128] The New Yorker described the resulted campaign as "a miracle", along with Navalny's release on 19 July, the fundraising campaign, and the personality of Navalny himself.[129] The campaign received very little television coverage and did not utilize billboards. Thanks to Navalny's strong campaign (and Sobyanin's weak one[127]), his result grew over time, weakening Sobyanin's, and in the end of the campaign, he declared the runoff election (to be conducted if none of the candidates receives at least 50% of votes) was "a hair's breadth away".

The largest sociological companies predicted (Levada Center was the only one not to have made any predictions; the data it had on 28 August, however, falls in line with other companies') Sobyanin would win the election, scoring 58% to 64% of the vote; they expected Navalny to receive 15–20% of the vote, and the turnout was to be 45–52%.[130] The final results of the voting showed Navalny received 27% of the vote, more than candidates appointed by the parties that received second, third, fourth, and fifth highest results during the 2011 parliamentary elections, altogether. Navalny fared better in the center and southwest of Moscow, which have higher income and education levels.[20] However, Sobyanin received 51% of the vote, which meant he won the election. The turnout was 32%.[131]
#15150902
Heisenberg wrote:Please link to the post where I called Navalny a neo Nazi. I said he has ties to the far right, which isn't exactly unknown.


I did not expect you to opt for the obtuse denial route. Oh well.

Heisenberg wrote:Then, as things tend to go with CIA and MI6-supported sham revolutions, they lost control of their chosen idiot and it resulted in the far right gaining the ascendancy in Ukraine. I suspect exactly the same thing will happen if they western powers get their way and Navalny comes to power: they'll think they finally have a nice "liberal" puppet, but the Russian neo-Nazis who have played a part in Navalny attaining his current level of prominence might have other ideas.


We get the gist, according to you he is a CIA/MI6 neo-nazi stooge.

Your evidence; a partisan editorial that accuses him of: 1) participating in the "Russian march", 2) making undefined and unstated "statements" against Muslims and 3) allegedly supporting the race-riots in his blog(without of course offering this evidence), for "good faith measure" Putin who arrested the migrants(instead of the racists) during the race-riots is of course not just a "not neo-nazi" but the antidote to Navalny's "neo-nazi" connections. Clearly your logic is impeccable! and not bad faith propaganda at all. No, of course not!

I'm "bad faith" because I read your dismissive attitude against Ukrainian & Russian democracy, exactly as it was intended, to demoralise any effort towards democracy because "neo-nazis".

:roll:

I did, did I? If so, I'm sure you'll be able to show the direct quote where I said this.


Exhibit 1:

Heisenberg wrote:CIA and MI6-supported sham revolutions


Exhibit 2 wrote:Indeed, the fact that the Economist and Financial Times - publications which value economic liberalism above all else and have a track record of defending free market dictators over democratically elected socialists - love Alexei Navalny so much should be a red flag to anyone, not just a cranky socialist like me.


We get it mate, as a "socialist" you are entitled to call any liberal, a "neo-nazi stooge of the CIA and MI6", for proof, look at the FT and the Economist, they like him so he must be!
#15150906
It would be rude to brake Your ping-pong and aasist someone, but in case of cia mi-- puppeteer sham revolutions I'll need to back up Heisenberg with conscious assumption and the rest is infiltration history! I just cant help myself I see every western action as western expansionism when they promote democracy trough their own puppets, its really stupid to see the things otherwise as supposedly we dont live in modern age of empires!

Admin Edit: As the links provided are from a Russian newbie, excuse my skepticism but I am reluctant on clicking on them and on letting others click potentially harmful links. Post the content you believe is relative.
#15150912
hm, first I am not russian , then the links are archived one and they wouldnt hurt anybody, but ok You are admin so I must respect Your stance!

here is quoted excerpt from the removed footnotes so it would have sense my statement about "conscious assumption" after which they followed ...

In 2010, Navalny won a six-month scholarship to Yale University’s World Fellows Program, a mid-career incubator for world leaders. ~ Katheryn Weaver and Josh Wilson for Geohistory ~ 23 Oct 2017


The CIA wanted the best and the brightest. They found them at Yale. ~ Erik Ofgang for Connecticutmag ~ Sep 30, 2020
Last edited by Odiseizam on 18 Jan 2021 22:50, edited 1 time in total.
#15150923
Navalny has more decency, integrity, & bravery than all his detractors combined just like he got more votes in his first ever election than:

The final results of the voting showed Navalny received 27% of the vote, more than candidates appointed by the parties that received second, third, fourth, and fifth highest results during the 2011 parliamentary elections, altogether. Navalny fared better in the center and southwest of Moscow, which have higher income and education levels.[20] However, Sobyanin received 51% of the vote, which meant he won the election. The turnout was 32%.[131]


And that was only with 32% turnout!!! :lol:

You can see the problem Putin and his acolytes have. It''s written on the wall with neon.

He got more native Russian donations than anyone before him.

The only weapon Putin has against him is to denounce him either as a "spy or a criminal", and send the Russian trolls out to propagandise it, failing that, poison or ban from running.
#15150929
I mean... Putin has a Russian state to keep united and strong.
Navalny may have ethics or integrity, he might as well be the most honest leader in history, but it simply doesn't matter.
Russia isn't ready yet to move into a fully republican state. Putin and men like Putin are needed during transitional periods.
Don't forget what Russia is, don't forget its role in global politics and economy but most importantly don't forget its history.
If Navalny was an actual patriot, he'd understand Russia needs internal cooperation more than division.
#15150931
Hellas me ponas wrote:I mean... Putin has a Russian state to keep united and strong.
Navalny may have ethics or integrity, he might as well be the most honest leader in history, but it simply doesn't matter.
Russia isn't ready yet to move into a fully republican state. Putin and men like Putin are needed during transitional periods.
Don't forget what Russia is, don't forget its role in global politics and economy but most importantly don't forget its history.
If Navalny was an actual patriot, he'd understand Russia needs internal cooperation more than division.


It is quite unbelievable what people will say when they are faced with the inevitable.

1) Honesty, integrity, ethics don't matter. An unhinged former KGB communist is better because...he just is.
2) Transitional period since 1991, that is like 3 decades of "transitioning"
3) People voting for Navalny = division. :eek:

No dear, Putin should understand that his time is over, Russians should understand that even after a 100+ year delay they can catch up with liberal democracy as it was natural for them since Kapodistrias and throw away all those who shackled them into treacherous failed systems.

Democracy is not something that happens, people must work towards it, it is a work in progress with every vote the demos becomes more or less mature.

Rossia, do not fear the future, embrace it.
#15150932
noemon wrote:Navalny has more decency, integrity, & bravery than all his detractors combined just like he got more votes in his first ever election than:

And that was only with 32% turnout!!! :lol:


this is way too biased point at best, probably You are not aware how things go on propaganda level i.e. what kind of techniques and machines are in background!?

Navalny never would have such chance if there was not for side agitprop help, I am not acquaint with his campaign, but from what can be read on wiki its the stratfor canvas pattern alike [1][1]
#15150935
Odiseizam wrote:this is way too biased point at best, probably You are not aware how things go on propaganda level i.e. what kind of techniques and machines are in background!?

Navalny never would have such chance if there was not for side agitprop help, I am not acquaint with his campaign, but from what can be read on wiki its the stratfor canvas pattern alike [1][1]


Or perhaps Russians are simply tired of the corruption, nepotism and general pisstaking and want to elect someone else. Someone who represents modern liberal democracy and who stands against corruption.

Your argument that Navalny's success is because of "foreign agitoprop" is just your opinion and nothing else and you have nothing to support it.

Even if we suppose for the sake of argument that it's true, it still doesn't matter:

If Navalny is a CIA spy, has he got more power in Russia than Putin? Is Putin or his successor incapable to take him on?

How pathetic are they then? And why would anyone bend the knee to people who have the entire state apparatus behind them but still fail to take on an alleged "CIA stooge" .

Russians look at yourselves.

Lots of you are complaining about western systems day and night, the decadence, the one and the other.

What is this state of affairs that defines you?
#15150937
noemon wrote:It is quite unbelievable what people will say when they are faced with the inevitable.

1) Honesty, integrity, ethics don't matter. An unhinged former KGB communist is better because...he just is.
2) Transitional period since 1991, that is like 3 decades of "transitioning"
3) People voting for Navalny = division. :eek:

No dear, Putin should understand that his time is over, Russians should understand that even after a 100+ year delay they can catch up with liberal democracy as it was natural for them since Kapodistrias and throw away all those who shackled them into treacherous failed systems.

Democracy is not something that happens, people must work towards it, it is a work in progress with every vote the demos becomes more or less mature.

Rossia, do not fear the future, embrace it.



You don't understand. It's not the move towards democracy. It's about smooth transitioning. Putin is too popular and too interconnected for huk to just suddenly give up and let the republican circus begin.
Putin has started something and he has to finish it before leaving.
He will leave the office sooner or later and that has to be done.
But it has to happen smoothly. Its Russia.
Democracy will prevail but it needs patience.
If Putin let navalny just win right now (honestly mavalny owns public opinion, his polls are way higher than the ones shown) then the state would freeze for some time and maybe even start descending slowly backwards again into chaos.
#15150938
noemon wrote:Or perhaps Russians are simply tired of the corruption, nepotism and general pisstaking and want to elect someone else. Someone who represents modern liberal democracy and who stands against corruption.

Modern liberal democracy represents corruption. Really, in Biden world there is no sense to talk about corruption anymore.
#15150939
noemon wrote:How pathetic are they then? And why would anyone bend the knee to people who have the entire state apparatus behind them but still fail to take on an alleged "CIA stooge"


eh they've learned their lection, we live in world tied by causality, if they bring him down in his place would rise even greater western meanice-papet and that will provoke tensions till bone, he ok like that, it cant make change it cant bring change it could waste time to everyone do, Navalny simply is agitprop pawn, Russia is not some neonatal democracy, but modern empire that holds the balance in this world, I just wonder when they'll became Tsardom again ...
#15150942
Ganeshas Rat wrote:Modern liberal democracy represents corruption. Really, in Biden world there is no sense to talk about corruption anymore.

Finally someone had to say it here ....
Putin is corrupt, agreed , but can someone tell me one modern democracy that is actually led by non corrupt personalities with morals and integrity?
Or we all going to act like our governments are paragons of virtue and light :angel: :violin:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 18

@noemon Sounds like you know more about this t[…]

The crazy continues...

Atheism is Evil

@MrWonderful Can you explain which atheists ar[…]

How to deal with Trump?

[usermention=27034] I think the problem you got […]