[Odiseizam]

The only wise opinion stated by the author you linked:

I dont want to jump in Your ball passings, but must comment the environmental quote about northstream which You think is wise its doable so later germans could buy lng from usA, but this goes way beyond russian but also against european interests if not common logic, maybe You are also for unilateral disarmament of Russia ...

aside Your or mine biases, what is striking is how smoothly flow the spinn that russian poisoned Navalny, he was flying over Russia so it must be russians, as I am aware every action from such caliber if it is done by the state it would be done completely and easy, this is either domestic terrorism, either his own opportunistic stunt, or it was done by western infiltration so they can use him as scapegoat, not so for internal but external skims, in this case how he landed in Germany obviously for sabotaging the finished nordstream-2 pipeline, and the cia-hacking-case started yet again!

[noemon]

Yeah man, aliens poisoned Navalny and aliens have been trying to ban him from running in the Russian elections. Also aliens arrested him the day he arrived in Russia under the most ridiculous charges ever trumped up.

Russia is utterly shameless and nothing can be put passed them.

It does not go against European interests to develop their own gas reserves(self-sufficiency)!

It goes against European interests to refuse to develop their own gas reserves and instead rely on Russian and Azerbaijani gas.

[Odiseizam]

when something is finished as deal and as infrastructure done, yes its not in european interests!

about aliens, hm, tell me how big mistake would be after Skripal (if it was at all russian case) twice someone to make the same mistake, even worst done on opposition figure, its obvious that is not russian action but only to brainwashed people this would look like that, probably many cant grasp the fact that nowaday we live in world of propaganda wars, and this is just small one, wait to see later how through a.i. montage videos there would be blackmailing or accusation to european leaders when they will try to distance themselves from any ludicrous attempts (by the western globalists or neocons) to cornered with more destabilization Russia and its partners ...

... what we must be aware is that this propaganda war has no mercy, they invested in Navalny as pawn and till they can they will use him as scapegoat in any scenario, and this is just waste of time, thats why Russia needs immediately to become again Tsardom and finally delete all infiltration either was case for propaganda or investment takeover, in this way even there is direct attack Russia will have Blessing from the Orthodox Church to act instantly ...

[noemon]

Indeed, your propaganda that Navalny is anything other than a Russian hero risking his own life in the service of Russia and its people has 'no mercy' indeed.

Navalny has been poisoned, dragged through the courts, imprisoned, vilified and yet he stands tall with his forehead clean. The troll detractors cannot find anything wrong about him and are trumping up whatever scraps they can muster in a propagandistic exercise that even as propaganda is low quality. He got a "6-month scholarship at Yale" "that proves it"!! "The FT and Economist like him, that proves it too!!!" How ridiculous can one be to even say these things out loud with a straight face.

If that is all you have, we both know you have nothing.

Europe increasing its reliance on Russian gas instead of developing its own gas reserves for its own self-sufficiency is the very definition of 'going against its own interests'.

[Odiseizam]

I admire how stubborn You are on the european own gas selfsuficiency, either You are not aware how things are standing in the energetic sector or obviously dont even bother, russian gas will be always with more competitive price than any other option, but again its not at all in question the gas but the geostrategic infiltration, in this case until Kaliningrad is russian spot in eU even there is no gas dependence from Russia europeans will be cornered easily for any attempt of nato invasion in future, now actually this the main goal for the western globalists i.e. to compact their lines more and more til the time has come for direct clash, in a way Russia to have no means to revert any eventual plan for their western cohesion and like that sure shot eastwards!

[noemon]

I do not admire your stubbornness in trying to convince a European that importing Russian gas will always be better/cheaper/greater/more fantastic than drilling gas from his own European territory.

The same for Azerbaijani gas, why is Europe investing in building pipelines to import Russian and Azerbaijani gas when Europe has the world-leading drills, the finest industrial technology and the most competitive shipping capacity, as well as proven gas reserves?



It is not surprising though that this nonsense is coming from a pro-Putin avatar. It is actually very expected and rather boring to be frank.

I'm glad you insist because the more you insist the more you bring this on the surface for Europeans and the more you show the total ridiculousness of current German policy who is responsible for this sad state of affairs.

Even anti-Navalny pro-Putin bloggers like the guy brought forward by Ingliz cannot fathom why Germany is pursuing such a stupid anti-European and anti-German energy policy.

The United States is very keen indeed to stop Germany completing the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, which will supply Russian gas to Germany on a massive scale, sufficient for about 40% of its electricity generation. Personally I am opposed to Nord Stream 2 myself, on both environmental and strategic grounds. I would much rather Germany put its formidable industrial might into renewables and self-sufficiency.

[Odiseizam]

did not occur to You that they are pushing that exactly because germans dont wont to be globalist pawn or victim (with along them whole eU) they by their own wont to be middle man and not someones bitch, tho easy to say but hard to be done!

btw, drilling european gas can come just from shale reserves and that proved to be not just expensive but also dangerous because earthquakes, anyway in any future world economy depression european gas again will be more expensive than the russian, aside the fact that for this they are not even close so they can currently substitute the russian flow!

[ingliz]

Get a grip

Why do you think it was Putin that done it incompetently?

Navalny is a CIA-MI6 stooge who mixes with some very nasty neo-nazis.

The only documented case of Novichok being used to assassinate anyone - The Scripal case was a bad joke - was linked to a Russian mafia lawyer's death in the 90s. If he was poisoned and not laid low by a dodgy sandwich, it was most likely a falling out amongst friends.

[noemon]

did not occur to You that they are pushing that exactly because germans dont wont to be globalist victim with them whole eU, they by their own wont to be middle man and not someones bitch, tho easy to say but harder to be done!

btw, drilling european gas can come just from shale reserves and that proved to be not just expensive but also dangerous because earthquakes, anyway in any future world economy depression european gas again will be more expensive than the russian, aside the fact that for this they are not even close so they can currently substitute the russian flow!

They are prefering to import Russian and Azerbaijani gas instead of developing native European gas because they "do not want to be someone else's bitch" and because "earthquakes may make Russian gas cheaper".

Do you even listen to yourself or think before you write?

Did it occur to you that your nonsense are totally transparent?

Why do you think it was Putin that done it incompetently?

Why does anyone need to pay attention to twisted conspiracies by pro-Putin Russian trolls that make no sense whatsoever and are talking out of their arseholes?

Navalny has been poisoned, dragged through the courts, imprisoned, vilified and yet he stands tall with his forehead clean. The troll detractors cannot find anything wrong about him and are trumping up whatever scraps they can muster in a propagandistic exercise that even as propaganda is low quality. He got a "6-month scholarship at Yale" "that proves it"!! "The FT and Economist like him, that proves it too!!!" How ridiculous can one be to even say these things out loud with a straight face.

If that is all you have, we both know you have nothing.

[ingliz]

Why does anyone need to...

Why does anyone need to pay attention to twisted conspiracies by anti-Putin Greek trolls that make no sense whatsoever and are talking out of their arseholes?

[Odiseizam]

@noemon messing point from one in another paragraph its not smart defensive argument ... when talking about bitches I am referring to the tie with Russia with nordstram-2, while when talking about risks of earthquakes and expensive shalegas extraxtion I am referring on the competitiveness of the russian gas price ...

anyway we got deep oftopic and this argue with You is meaningless, I am offering clues and arguments on what You are cherry picking twisted conclusions as response, this is not debating but streetcorner dissing by You, probably we should start battle rapping, maybe like that this thread will be more convincing ...

[JohnRawls]

Do you honestly believe the crap you peddle?

If Putin wanted Navalny dead, he would be dead.

He is not.

Putin wanted Navalny dead but has failed to do so due to incompetence of his FSB personal.

You have too high an opinion of Putin who is basically a head of the most corrupt systems of governance in the world which he himself created and uses to this day. It is a decently competent system in some regards, just not in the regard of making people lives better or increasing the standard of living for the people. The system and the people running it just have different priorities.

And since the system and the people running it are not interested in the regular job or reponsibilities of the government then this is currently leading to the healthcare, education, economy slowly becoming worse and worse over time etc

Russia is a dying country at this point under Putin. The longer he stays, the weaker Russia will become and the worse off the people of Russia will be. If he stays long enough, may be the whole country will get fragmented once again which nobody wants but WILL HAPPEN.

[Odiseizam]

cant believe how west tries to play Putin again and again, just further wasting of time recycling all the hype around Navalny, defacto this will be constant spinn this year, maybe even good defocusing for the western mainstream bots from all the covid-19 consequences ...

at least it would be fun when extra info will popping up on the western worn geopolitical tactics! tho I sympathize with their helpless if not desperate will for further growth, almost as they are trying to fingerpoint Putin that is guilty for their deadend nwo agenda! but hey Navalny is good crying joker!

... I was not aware of this ~ after all he was recruited by Mi6 and then repached by CIA on Yale to everyones delight ~ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36027752

[Heisenberg]

If you claim my summation is misinterpreting you then you are more than welcome to show how that is, without insults and screams.

Gladly!

1. I said Navalny has ties to the far right. The Russian far right has a lot of neo-Nazis. Neither of these things are really in question among honest people, and I stand by it 100%. You chose to dismiss the evidence - which even western liberal commentators have acknowledged - by saying Putin is worse. That isn't really the point, but fine, that's your business. After your hagiography of Navalny in this thread, I accept that acknowledging his dark side might be... a bit difficult.

But to say there is "no evidence", and even that you had "thoroughly dealt with" my "partisan source" when I presented you several different sources, including direct quotes of him supporting a race riot, is absurd.

Plus, at no point did I actually say "Putin is the antidote," defend Putin's response to that race riot, or, indeed, defend Putin for anything at all in this thread. You have completely invented that, while introducing some embarrassingly inaccurate comparisons like calling Alexei Navalny - a right wing populist! - the "Keir Starmer of Russia".

2. As for me allegedly calling Navalny a "CIA stooge". Read the paragraph you quoted. It literally doesn't mention Alexei Navalny once. It is entirely about Ukraine. I was talking about the 2014 Ukraine coup d'etat as a "CIA and MI6-supported sham revolution", not saying "Alexei Navalny is a CIA stooge".

(Note, also, that I haven't actually used the word "stooge" in this thread, so you continuing to put it in direct quotes is, yes, a lie. On the other hand, you have accused me of doing "agitprop for Putin", which is a ridiculous smear.)

3. As for my "evidence" allegedly being "the FT likes him, so he must be": apparently you struggle with the idea of rhetoric. I said the FT and the Economist singing Alexei Navalny's praises is a red flag, not prima facie "evidence". I stand by it 100%.

If the Financial Times, Economist, or the New York Times - publications all deeply embedded in the western political establishment - are cheerleading a "revolutionary" figure, I usually think this is a red flag. The Economist, infamously, supported Augusto Pinochet's coup against Salvador Allende, while the FT and NYT both strongly supported the military coup against Morales in Bolivia last year.

If you want to cling to this and claim I said it was "proof" or "evidence", that's your business, but I think any honest person reading the thread can probably understand the point I was making.

To sum up, if you actually expect me to delete my post calling you a liar, you are sorely mistaken. Now, you can apologise for deliberately misrepresenting me, or not. But I'll lose any respect I had for you if you choose the latter route. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[late]

Russia lies all the time.

So if anyone wants me to believe the Putin line, they're going to need rock solid evidence.

Until then, Navalny is a choir boy.

[Rancid]

Russia lies all the time.

So if anyone wants me to believe the Putin line, they're going to need rock solid evidence.

Until then, Navalny is a choir boy.

Shutup! Russia, China, and all tinpot dictatorships are far more truthful than anyone else!

[late]

Shutup! Russia, China, and all tinpot dictatorships are far more truthful than anyone else!

I really hate the way Trump, his Cult, and a bunch of non-Cult Republicans like Moscow Mitch are in bed with Putin.

Before Trump, that would have gotten you thrown unceremoniously into the street.

[Rugoz]

1. I said Navalny has ties to the far right.

He also supports the communist far-left when necessary. The goal is to break the United Russia monopoly by supporting whoever is most likely to defeat it. Within the Russian system he has no choice but to support the nasty parties Putin keeps as opposition.

[annatar1914]

@noemon

Instead of the substantive you are focused on unimportant "nominalism". Byzantium or Constantinople makes no difference, the fact is both the Western educational system and the Russian share a common medieval source regardless if you see that as being Jerusalemite or Athenian or Roman(which is the fusion of all 3 anyway). The westerners took Plato and run with the Enlightenment while the Russians got stuck behind like they did under communism.

But here you're showing your Westernized philosophical and cultural/spiritual bias, in that you make the assumption that the ''Enlightenment'' was such a good thing. Then, you switch gears and insist that the Russians were at the very forefront of the ''Enlightenment'' efforts during the Romanov era, hardly noticing that I'm in agreement with you on that, but not in agreement with you that it was a positive development.

Cyril and Methodius preached to Russia the exact same thing Medieval Greeks preached to the west. Christian Hellenism, Greco-Roman education and jurisprudence, they both did not just adopt "Christianity" but Hellenic education, in primary, secondary and tertiary level. Greco-Roman law. Greek fire and shared a common royalty with all of Europe too.

They preached Orthodoxy, all these other things are just cultural baggage that is worldly and has nothing to do with the One Thing Necessary.

When western liberalism took off in the 18th and 19th centuries Russia was its primary champion, without Russia the vision of Kapodistrias for a Liberal Europe would never have materialised. While the Concert of Europe was trying to undo Napoleonic liberalism by military and spiritual force, Russia set up Switzerland and her liberal constitution and guaranteed French State Unity!!!

As I said, the ''Romanovs'' were Westernizers, and that process of Westernization ultimately wound up costing them their Throne and in many cases, their lives.

You are now living in a nation that has cut off its religious relations with the Greek Orthodox because they recognised Ukraine as an independent church. Russia poisons and imprisons its own opposition. You 're scared of the vote of your own population and prefer to keep them in spiritual shackles. And to make matters worse you 're trying to justify all these things too!!

You assume a great deal of me and what I'm about. For years now I have insisted on my sympathies lying with the so-called ''Old Believers'' of Orthodox Christianity (and indeed, with the traditional ''Old Calendar'' Orthodox Christians I'm sure you're aware of), so that the ''official churches'' of Orthodoxy are from my perspective, struggling with the consequences of westernization, of compromise with the world and with the prince of this world. The quarrel between Russia and the West often appears more to take the form of fighting between two factions (or more) over different kinds of modern development, than a rejection of the West and it's ways entirely.

Unfortunately, from my perspective anyway.

You'll see. I would not be surprised at all by a renewed and ''normalized'' relationship between Russia and the EU/USA, with Biden suddenly having a ''triumph of diplomacy'' with Putin.

So I of all people am not ''scared'' of the vote of the Russian people. I think rather that the West should be ''scared'' of such a vote...

[Heisenberg]

He also supports the communist far-left when necessary.

I would argue that expressing sympathy for race rioters goes a little further than an alliance of convenience.

But this is precisely the problem: he is incredibly vague about where he actually stands on a lot of issues, but what he has said is pretty bad. This is why I am saying people should be wary, and not accept at face value that he is a nice cuddly liberal.