China a fascist state? - Page 10 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Godstud
#15142399
:lol:

It's a CLAIM. It has not been confirmed, nor is there evidence except from what one "intelligence agent" alleges.

Fuck, Americans sure are gullible these days. Genetic manipulation doesn't happen overnight, unless you watch too many movies.
Image


But the real question is: Will China beat USA to make the first Super Soldier?

Also:

Doesn't Captain America count?
By Rugoz
#15143143
Fasces wrote:You're again using GDP as a stand-in for the average level of economic development experienced by people. The 300 million in Chinese rural regions that have yet to share in the development experienced in major cities. They will contribute a disproportionately small share of GDP to any national chart, but are still a sizable chunk of the population.

For example, while agriculture contributes 7.1% to Chinese GDP, it still employs 30% of Chinese workers. The last time this was the case in the United States was the 1900s.

Chinese development has been very regionalized, and it is still undergoing that process. You don't seem to have a proper sense of the scale of the problem.


I provided regional GDP per capita levels. Even in the poorest regions it's at about $8k (PPP).

Agriculture employs 25.1% of workers. Which admittedly is a lot given its contribution to GDP. What that means is that agriculture in China is less efficient than its GDP would suggest, while industry and services are more efficient. The efficiency in agriculture is still hardly a better indicator for China's development (in particular since there seem to be institutional reasons for it). Again, regional differences notwithstanding.
#15143255
Sivad wrote:Di Dongsheng: We Have People at the Top of America's Circle



Top Chinese professor boasts of operatives in top of US ‘core inner circle’

A recently recorded lecture showing a Chinese Communist Party expert explaining how Beijing had “people at the top of America’s core inner circle” has found its way onto the internet in the United States after being censored in China.

The lecture, given by Di Dongsheng, vice dean of the School of International Relations at Renmin University, in late November also included references to President-elect Joe Biden’s son Hunter and his business dealings in the Communist country.

Speaking about what was pushing the Chinese to accelerate the reopening of their financial sectors, Di made the revelation that Beijing had a rarely discussed advantage in working with the US prior to the Trump administration.

“We know that the Trump administration is in a trade war with us, so why can’t we fix the Trump administration? Why did China and the US used to be able to settle all kinds of issues between 1992 and 2016?” Di asked, going on to answer the question himself.

“I’m going to throw out something maybe a little bit explosive here. It’s just because we have people at the top. We have our old friends who are at the top of America’s core inner circle of power and influence,” the top Chinese political scientist continued.

Di added during the lecture that “for the past 30 years, 40 years, we have been utilizing the core power of the United States.”

As for the future of the US-China relationship, Di appeared optimistic about China’s ability to thrive under an incoming President Biden.

“During the US-China trade war, [Wall Street] tried to help, and I know that my friends on the US side told me that they tried to help, but they couldn’t do much. But now we’re seeing Biden was elected, the traditional elite, the political elite, the establishment, they’re very close to Wall Street, so you see that, right?” Di asked the audience, noting that the next administration would likely take a very different stance from that of President Trump.

Di went on to suggest that Hunter Biden, whose business dealings in Ukraine and China have come under scrutiny, received help from the Chinese in his business efforts.

“Trump has been saying that Biden’s son has some sort of global foundation. Have you noticed that? Who helped [Hunter] build the foundations? Got it? There are a lot of deals inside all these,” Di explained.

Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe reacted to the video while appearing on Fox News Monday.

“There are a lot of people who, for economic reasons, don’t want China to be our greatest threat. There are a lot of people who, for political reasons, don’t want China to be our greatest threat in America, but the intelligence doesn’t lie. China is our greatest threat and it’s not even close,” the intel boss told Tucker Carlson.

“No other country has the capability of essentially taking away the American dream, and a specific plan to do so, and the intelligence is clear.”


https://nypost.com/2020/12/08/professor ... er-circle/


A wide range of China experts told PolitiFact that it’s not unusual for the Chinese government and businesses linked to the state to court prominent Americans or their family members.

The Biden arrangement appears to be a "normal deal that I expect from Chinese businessmen," said Zhiguo He, a finance professor at the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business.

"This is a standard operating procedure," agreed Barry Naughton, the chair of Chinese international affairs at the University of California-San Diego. "Bring in an influential person, give him a small percentage of a firm as a ‘finders fee,’ and grow the business."

For instance, Neil Bush, the younger brother of then-President George W. Bush, testified in a March 2003 divorce proceeding about a $2 million stock deal with Grace Semiconductor Manufacturing Corp., a firm backed by the son of former Chinese President Jiang Zemin.

HNA Group, a Chinese conglomerate, offered to buy a hedge fund owned by former White House official Anthony Scaramucci; retained the legal services of Gary Locke, the former U.S. ambassador to China, shortly before his confirmation; and provided financing to a private-equity firm backed by Jeb Bush, according to a 2019 account in the Intercept.

The Bank of China added Angela Chao, the sister of Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao and sister-in-law of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., to its board of directors, the Intercept reported.

In the meantime, critics have pointed to possible conflicts of interest for Trump and his own family, including the granting of Chinese trademarks to his daughter Ivanka, who owned a fashion line.

Both the Biden and Trump instances involved a child of a powerful U.S. official getting special treatment or business opportunities from the Chinese government, but there are some differences. On one hand, Ivanka Trump’s trademark approval involved an expedited regulatory review, as opposed to an ongoing investment opportunity. On the other hand, unlike Biden, she was actually a White House official at the time, in addition to being the president’s daughter. And the president himself maintains extensive business interests around the world.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/may/22/hunter-biden-and-china-sorting-through-murky-busin/
In a photo posted to her Facebook account, Cindy Yang appeared alongside Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, holding a sequined MAGA clutch and wearing a blue ballgown.

It was just one of numerous photos that the Republican political donor and operator of a string of spas and massage parlors has used to advertise her access to the Trump White House for Chinese business executives willing to pay for her services.

But the Florida-based entrepreneur has also been active in several organizations that are closely linked to the Chinese Communist Party’s global efforts to quietly increase influence within foreign political systems—a decades-long effort spearheaded by a party agency known as the United Front Work Department.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/12/962067-china-unitedfront-corruption-scandal/
Most Americans have never even heard of the main conduit of such influence, an obscure but sprawling Chinese Communist Party agency known as the United Front.

The organization has been around in one form or another since the World War II era. Mao famously referred to the United Front as one of the Communist Party’s “magic weapons.” These days, United Front operations sometimes resemble the CIA’s soft attempts to buy off, co-opt, or coerce influential community leaders. Sometimes it functions like a booster club for pro-party locals, or like an advocacy group trying to sway public opinion. Sometimes it works in concert with China’s traditional intelligence agencies, such as the Ministry of State Security, to gather information or apply pressure. And United Front networks may sometimes play a role in facilitating intellectual property theft and soft intelligence collection, though that role isn’t always clear.

What is clear is that the United Front is active in dozens of U.S. cities and has been for years, with almost no one the wiser.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-china-built-an-army-of-influence-agents-in-the-us To be fair though , this other alleged Chinese intelligence operative tried to cultivate relationships with prominent Democrats . https://heavy.com/news/christine-fang/ It would seem that the Chinese government seeks to gain influence , and curry favor with foreign political figures , and they don't much care about ideology .
As China’s wealth has grown, so has its sophistication at currying favor in Washington and among the American elite.

Both the Chinese government and Chinese companies, often with close state ties, have retained lobbying and public-relations firms in the Beltway, in some cases hiring former U.S. officials as personal lobbyists.

Beijing has also learned how to harness its economic might by alternately opening its doors to companies who play by China’s rules, and slamming the door on companies that go against its red lines. In some cases, this grants Beijing powerful sway over foreign companies with business interests in China. This has raised concerns that current U.S. government officials may have an eye on their future prospects in China even before leaving office.

While it may seem politics as usual in Washington today, some are alarmed.

“Nobody in the 1980s would have represented the Russian government. And now you find so many lobbying for the Chinese government,” said Frank Wolf, a retired U.S. representative from Virginia who long served as the co-chairman of the Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission. “I served in Congress for 34 years. I find it shocking.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/meet-the-us-officials-who-now-lobby-for-china
Last edited by Deutschmania on 14 Dec 2020 21:35, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Sandzak
#15143266
Rugoz wrote:I provided regional GDP per capita levels. Even in the poorest regions it's at about $8k (PPP).

Agriculture employs 25.1% of workers. Which admittedly is a lot given its contribution to GDP. What that means is that agriculture in China is less efficient than its GDP would suggest, while industry and services are more efficient. The efficiency in agriculture is still hardly a better indicator for China's development (in particular since there seem to be institutional reasons for it). Again, regional differences notwithstanding.


Was the farming land distributed to farmers from Kolchos, as they had under Mao?

This would explain why so many work in the agricultural sector.
#15145122
Unthinking Majority wrote:I was waiting for this. Only a matter of time. Hitler would never have done this!



Exactly. As I've said for many years, Hitler was premature. When he fell in '45, fascism was utterly discredited. Not for another century or more will anyone have the temerity to resurrect it (or a more modern version). But at least by that time a hegemon will have all the means to do it right. In the meantime, current attitudes ensure the emphasis is not on fascism but building the means.
#15150864
Sandzak wrote:One Party state, benvolent Dictator, controlled economy (state-capitalism), orwellian surveillence and censorship, prisons for minorities, desire to create a superhuman, exchagerated territorial claims, millitarisation

China changed from Maoism in pure Musolini Fascism

Well, ahve you thought that China is a state in control of vast amounts of lands and a population 5 times of U. S. A.?
These kind of meisures are necessary to keep the country unified. Last time they let the rope loose, begun an era of warlords, a period of unending chaos, conflict and foreign intervention .
Chinese actually learn from their history and try their best to not repeat it. I say we should stop criticising them and start doing the same...
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By Sandzak
#15151031
Hellas me ponas wrote:I say we should stop criticising them and start doing the same...



They put Millions of Uighurs and Tibetans in concentration camps... rape is this camps common.

The families of abducted men get a Han-Chinese as new father, where rape and childabuse happen.
#15151054
Hellas me ponas wrote: I say we should stop criticising them and start doing the same...


Right, I don't think any country can afford the luxury of democracy anymore. Compared to its pathetic impotence what the Chinese have done is amazing. The US can't even impose modest sacrifices essential to balance the budget; imagine the fate of a US politician advocating a one child policy…As for abuse of Uighurs and others, we're not really in a position to criticize, given our sterling record with the native Americans, blacks etc.
#15151072
Non-, or less-democrartic forms of government are just as unstable as democratic. Most failed states are non-democratic. To assume that the west "turning into China" is the solution ignores the historical evidence of the massive risk you takin when moving to authoritarianism.
#15151322
Rancid wrote:To assume that the west "turning into China" is the solution ignores the historical evidence of the massive risk you takin when moving to authoritarianism.


Authoritarianism can't succeed here unless or until it becomes absolutely necessary i.e. when the failings of democracy in foreign, economic and environmental spheres become unbearable. There will be little to lose and potentially a lot to gain. Authoritarianism did rather well after it supplanted the republic in Rome. And while the reich and USSR ultimately failed, both achieved a lot in their heydays. The reich was just overwhelmed--largely by another authoritarian state--while the USSR revived in a sense in Russia lately.

Getting back to this:
They put millions of Uighurs and Tibetans in concentration camps…rape is this camps common


I'd like to quote from a fellow American of the last century:

"We've done more damage than Hitler with his ovens. If two whites screwed an Indian girl, and forced the parents to watch, you couldn't even get a lawyer for the Indians."
User avatar
By Sandzak
#15151377
I'd like to quote from a fellow American of the last century:

"We've done more damage than Hitler with his ovens. If two whites screwed an Indian girl, and forced the parents to watch, you couldn't even get a lawyer for the Indians.


Blacks were slaves, now they become presidents.
#15151573
► Show Spoiler
Sandzak wrote:They put Millions of Uighurs and Tibetans in concentration camps... rape is this camps common.

The families of abducted men get a Han-Chinese as new father, where rape and childabuse happen.

At least the Chinese have the balls to not cover it like the westerners do.
All those European "democracies" are raping, murdering and abusing people in civil war torned countries all around the globe.
Like UN is supposed to protect human rights while at the same time blue helmets are doing war crimes in Africa.
The only difference between West and the chinese, is that the Chinese do not pretend like they are humanitarian.
#15151742
Hellas me ponas wrote:The only difference between West and the chinese, is that the Chinese do not pretend like they are humanitarian.


Another difference is more effective government.

Blacks were slaves, now they become presidents.


One president and not until the 21st century. The term "black lives matter" may say something about their status to this day….
#15151746
Hellas me ponas wrote:
► Show Spoiler

At least the Chinese have the balls to not cover it like the westerners do.
All those European "democracies" are raping, murdering and abusing people in civil war torned countries all around the globe.
Like UN is supposed to protect human rights while at the same time blue helmets are doing war crimes in Africa.
The only difference between West and the chinese, is that the Chinese do not pretend like they are humanitarian.


This is trolling propaganda. You need to state the particular country and event you are talking about so that people can actually address your claim instead of talking about the "abstract west".
#15151755
noemon wrote:This is trolling propaganda. You need to state the particular country and event you are talking about so that people can actually address your claim instead of talking about the "abstract west".

Well search it for yourself dear. Belgian and UN soldiers in the Kongolese civil war , Portuguese in the Angolan civil war, US War in Iraq,
The Panama, Nicaragua (where US invaded just to subjugate th country to the banana industries).
That's just very few of the thousands of examples, there is plenty more


Edit : As long as you don't live in that neoliberals bubble in which European democracies are something successful that everyone else should try to repeat and copy.
Then you'd already know these.
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By noemon
#15151759
Hellas me ponas wrote:Well search it for yourself dear. Belgian and UN soldiers in the Kongolese civil war , Portuguese in the Angolan civil war, US War in Iraq,
The Panama, Nicaragua (where US invaded just to subjugate th country to the banana industries).
That's just very few of the thousands of examples, there is plenty more


Edit : As long as you don't live in that neoliberals bubble in which European democracies are something successful that everyone else should try to repeat and copy.
Then you'd already know these.


No dear, when you make a claim you need to provide context of what it is you actually claim, throwing words up in the air is just lazy propaganda. You still have not provided a single example as to how the US is fascist like China or how any of these events justify what China is doing to Uighurs and that it makes her allegedly "more honest".

These events have been discussed and criticised to death in this forum and the apologists for similar crimes use the exact same bullshit whataboutist tactics as you do and get the exact same treatment as you are.
#15151767
noemon wrote:No dear, when you make a claim you need to provide context of what it is you actually claim, throwing words up in the air is just lazy propaganda. You still have not provided a single example as to how the US is fascist like China or how any of these events justify what China is doing to Uighurs and that it makes her allegedly "more honest".

These events have been discussed and criticised to death in this forum and the apologists for similar crimes use the exact same bullshit whataboutist tactics as you do and get the exact same treatment as you are.

Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation
And I provided enough context in order for a normal human to get my point.
Nevertheless if you want me to go further in detail well okay here you go :
This is just the deeds of USA alone, or at at least what's been recorded.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... war_crimes

This one is just the recorded British crimes the last 100 years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_war_crimes


What the "friendly" "humanitarian" Belgians did to Congo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocit ... 20Belgians.

Here comes the Portuguese :https://medium.com/all-history-and-no-play/pidjiguiti-portuguese-colonial-massacre-and-the-fight-for-independence-in-colonial-africa-83a54d8d62a

This is what French did to Algerians alone, their terror and criminal actions expand way further than Algeria though. This is just a small fragment of who they really are. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/frances ... ia/1635943



And neomon, that is just what Wikipedia is allowed to say. Yet noone talks about that as if European democracies are some kind of pro humanitarian saints.
Today they keep doing the same shit to Africans and Arabs. That's just the war crimes, don't let me start talking about the inhuman treatment of local populations to feed their profit hungy industries. And please don't get me started about mentioning Legion of the Foreigners.


So my point afterall neomon is that the Chinese are criminals too, but at least unlike us the westerners, they have the dignity to not pretend that they are some kind of liberty and human rights fighter.
When I say learn from them, I meant learn from them to at least not be hypocrites and accept the pragmatic reality of our world.
Now you see why I get disgusted by what you're writing all this time.
Have a good day sir.
User avatar
By noemon
#15151769
Hellas me ponas wrote:And neomon, that is just what Wikipedia is allowed to say. Yet noone talks about that


Everybody in this forum does. This forum contains a lot more threads about all these things than about China by a huge margin.
Your argument is false. Everybody talks about that and nobody talks about China and when somebody dares to mention China then trolls cry that nobody talks about what we are talking about for years now! :lol:

So my point afterall neomon is that the Chinese are criminals too, but at least unlike us the westerners, they have the dignity to not pretend that they are some kind of liberty and human rights fighter.
When I say learn from them, I meant learn from them to at least not be hypocrites and accept the pragmatic reality of our world.
Now you see why I get disgusted by what you're writing all this time.
Have a good day sir.


Again that is absolutely false, in the west we are discussing all these things openly in here, in the paper, everywhere, we criticise our own more than we criticise China. In China people have no freedom to criticise the actions of the government.
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