Drug legalisation - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Should drugs be legal

No, deathpenalty for dealers and drugconsumers should be send to jail
2
13%
No, the current war on drugs has to be continued
2
13%
Yes, but just marihuana consumption and trade, like in Netherlands, Catalania, Oregon and California
4
27%
Yes, but just consumption should be legal trade not, like in the Czech Republic
3
20%
Yes a total druglegalisation is the best way, you can buy and trade drugs which are taxed like tabacco
4
27%
#15151404
I would rather use my tax dollars to help drug addicts than (to use an actual example from my neck ofmthe woods) spend 7.5 billion on an oil pipeline that will never exist.

The former would at least reduce the amount of crime and needles in my neighbourhood. The latter does nothing but make a few rich friends of the Premier even richer.
By late
#15151429
Goranhammer wrote:
Pretty much tells your political views when your definition of sanity involves a world of junkies being subsidized by Daddy Gubmint.



Pretty much tells your political views when you don't know what you're talking about.
User avatar
By Goranhammer
#15151448
late wrote:Pretty much tells your political views when you don't know what you're talking about.


It sounds like you're just upset that I've called out you and your ilk. Act dignified all you want; I know the truth.

Just defend subhuman trash. It speaks volumes about you.
#15151499
Goranhammer wrote:It sounds like you're just upset that I've called out you and your ilk. Act dignified all you want; I know the truth.

Just defend subhuman trash. It speaks volumes about you.


It is interesting that you think you have the moral high ground.

And you apparently believe that you are morally superior because you think drug addicts are less than human while @late and others think drug addicts are people with medical problems.

It is interesting because hatred is transformed into a virtue and people who do not share this hate are seen as immoral.
#15151581
late wrote:Going after supply and ignoring demand has failed for 50 years.

It will continue to be a horrible failure.



That's exactly my point.
Governments never face this matter as seriously as they should. Putting up some laws and catching a few smugglers ain't do shit, because law will keep being broken like it never existed and new smugglers always keep coming.
Also a huge deal is to treat the addicted properly.
If the state actually puts real effort and resources into this it can work very efficiently.
Building hundreds of new fully operational rehab centers, where addicts can get their dose controlled and even make progress towards limiting their addiction(which will make the demand for smugglers almost zero, since the state itself gives their dose without the danger of breaking the law) . While at the same time the army (in cooperation with the police) eliminates every illegal source of drugs until the cartels
are demolished .

This won't solve the problem immidiately. Effects of this will only start to show after few years. And in the longterm way less people will get addicted in the first place. While the already addicted will be treated.
And after a few decades the drug problem will be almost vanish, since the number of new addicts will decrease dramatically each year.
The only problem is that this actually requires lots of money and lots of political effort, patience and persistence .
And that's why it will never happen.
#15151582
It's all about the mind game and treating human life with respect though.
If addicts are taken care of with respect and safety of the state. After a while a relationship of trust will evolve between them and the state.
And nowadays we have the media to brainwash people. It's very easy to brainwash the new generations about not doing drugs.
It's all about the mind game.
And of course, there needs to be a military operations level of hunting down the smugglers, similar way Mexico did (the only reason it didn't work for Mexico its because they only tried to stop it by brute force, also its poor resources can't provide solutions to addicts)
#15151583
Sorry, Last one, but when you show that it's cool to do drugs in every action movie you make and raise generations with that image. No matter what you do people will keep getting addicted to drugs.
It's all about the mind game
By late
#15151771
Hellas me ponas wrote:
Sorry, Last one, but when you show that it's cool to do drugs in every action movie you make and raise generations with that image. No matter what you do people will keep getting addicted to drugs.
It's all about the mind game



Before there was a single human being on the planet, there was drug use. So you are accidentally correct, no matter what you do, people will use drugs. As will bears and birds and many other critters.

You keep ignoring the supply and demand aspect. Attacking supply doesn't work, unless you are willing to kill indiscriminately.

At the time of the movie, the French Connection, France had joined our War on Drugs and had a terrible drug problem. That's why there was a French connection, they had too many drugs, so they had to ship some of them here.

But France quit our War on Drugs, put serious money into treatment, and things got better.

Another aspect to this is that we tend to see people as liabilities, not assets. The countries that do better see people as assets, and invest in them. That makes a big difference.

Of course, that's back in the real world. Speaking of which, don't bother whining that you support treatment. The Drug War is hella expensive, and we're not going to add a major treatment program on top of that. It's just too much money.
#15151782
Well exactly it costs too much. But that's the price it takes to win that war.
If we aren't willing to pay the cost then we might as well stop discussing this topic because it has no point anymore we just let the problem exist then.
By late
#15151784
Hellas me ponas wrote:
Well exactly it costs too much. But that's the price it takes to win that war.



There is no win. America pumped an insane amount of money into the Drug War, and all we did was create new drug cartels that replaced the ones we took out. In a poor country, with the potential to get millions, there will always be someone.

It's a problem you manage.
#15151789
late wrote:There is no win. America pumped an insane amount of money into the Drug War, and all we did was create new drug cartels that replaced the ones we took out. In a poor country, with the potential to get millions, there will always be someone.

It's a problem you manage.

Yes "win" was wrong choice of word . Manage is the most suitable indeed.
Well, America threw a lot of money in that, but it was used the wrong way. Just hunting down the cartels is pointless, because everytime you destroy one, two others will be formed like Hydras. As long as there is demand, there will always be cartels.

And that's exactly what I pointed out earlier, that hunting the cartels won't work by itself.
You also need to throw millions or even billions into treatment facilities and that way the demand will fall dramatically.
Also a huge factor is the living conditions. Is it a coincidence that poor neighbourhoods have higher addiction rates? As long as there is widespread poverty, inequality and bad living conditions, new addicts will keep increasing.
So you see its a combination of lots of factors, it isn't just one simple thing you have to do and then it's over.
In order to manage the drug issue, there needs to be a "team" effort in every sector. Economic, political, military and even cultural.
#15151790
And again, this costs a lot both in financial and political capital. So I don't think the drug problem will ever be controlled, as long as there is such instability in the country.
By late
#15151798
Hellas me ponas wrote:
And that's exactly what I pointed out earlier, that hunting the cartels won't work by itself.
You also need to throw millions or even billions into treatment facilities and that way the demand will fall dramatically.



Drug Wars are expensive. No country is going to put serious money into treatment while also spending serious money on a drug war.
#15151807
late wrote:Drug Wars are expensive. No country is going to put serious money into treatment while also spending serious money on a drug war.

Agreed mate, that's literally what I said.
The problem will just keep being out of control, since noone will ever deal with it efficiently.
User avatar
By Goranhammer
#15151832
Pants-of-dog wrote:It is interesting that you think you have the moral high ground.

And you apparently believe that you are morally superior because you think drug addicts are less than human


I've seen junkies. I know junkies. They're amongst the lowest of humans, so yeah.
#15151835
Sandzak wrote:Thomas Edison consumed cocain.


user =/= junkie

If you're not at a level where you need "rehab" to get shit straight and can still function in society while being a positive in said society, you're not a problem.
#15151839
Goranhammer wrote:I've seen junkies. I know junkies. They're amongst the lowest of humans, so yeah.


Your observer bias does not turn your prejudiced claims about drug addicts into logical arguments or even moral superiority.
#15151840
Goranhammer wrote:I've seen junkies. I know junkies. They're amongst the lowest of humans, so yeah.

They just weak souls bro.
But that doesn't give you the right to judge whether or not they are lesser humans or not.
I agree that they are weaker than normal people psychologically, and that's how they got addicted in the first place. Yet they still remain humans and fellow citizens.
They are people in need of help, and helping them we must. Not criticise them like that and condemn them for their poor choice making.
By helping them we will help ourselves too, because our neighbourhoods will become a bit of a better place.
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