Racism definition & use - Page 15 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15152483
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, this is a strawman.

One of the corrupt murdering cops that helped kill George Floyd was Asian. The fact that this murderous cop was Asian does not change the fact that racism was one of the factors in George Floyd’s murder.

Note that the claim that minorities cannot be racist is not the same as the claim as that it is impossible or difficult to be racist against white people.


OK, let me ask you:

Can minorities be racist?

Yes or no. Explain why.

Thanks
#15152484
Drlee wrote:How about this @Julian658

How about giving me an example of the people on the "extreme left" who say that minorities cannot be racist.

Of course, even if you do, it is easy to reject their opinions as not much more credible than the flat-earthers.

I think it is possible to find someone on any political spectrum who holds an absurdly extreme view. I would like to know what your point is. You mentioned these people, what are we to learn from your point?

BTW... And this is a key point. Some people named Julian are women. Some women are feminist. Just keep that in mind. I think we all know what I am saying.

Since the thread is about the definition of racism it is fair to ask. Can minorities be racist? Give me your opinion in a concise manner. If yes, explain how. If no explain why.
#15152485
late wrote:No, that's you projecting again.

That is an old and remarkably dumb line. Racism is a continuum, most everyone is racist, to one degree or another.

Thanks!

But if you had even a vague understanding, you would know that there is a huge difference between what happens to Whites and Blacks. That what all the recent insanity is about is Whites trying to hold onto that White power, at the expense of Blacks.


This is fascinating. Do you think that if blacks acquire a lot of power white people will lose power? Why? I never saw it that way.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15152486
Can minorities be racist?


Of course they can. Take for example, a white person in Detroit. Though a small minority of the population it is possible for him/her to be racist against blacks.

What is your fucking point Julian?
#15152489
Julian658 wrote:OK, let me ask you:

Can minorities be racist?

Yes or no. Explain why.

Thanks


I literally just gave you an example of a person from a minority being racist. You even quoted it.

I can explain it again if you want. Would you like me to do that?
#15152493
I don't see why wouldn't it be possible to be racist against whites, even in the West.

@Pants-of-dog, you claimed that the reason why identity politics has become popular among Whites is simply demographics. But that's not accurate for two reasons: Firstly, there are plenty of Whites who participate taking the side of minorities, including yourself, something that has been going on since the abolition movement in the late 18th and 19th centuries (another consequence of the Industrial Revolution, by the way). And secondly, the sort of Whites who play White identity politics, in the Trumpian way, are in the lower and lower middle classes and particularly in rural areas (which have become impoverished themselves for the reasons I mentioned before ITT) and this can be seen by their advocacy for all sort of ridiculous conspiracy theories that the vast majority of us who have a full college education laugh at.

And yet... These people, the ones who do buy into White identity politics, probably do regard themselves as victims, even victims because of their race. Why? Could it be that they don't see themselves as being privileged and that they believe the concerns about poverty are only limited when the poor belong to a minority, thereby being exclusionary as far as they are concerned, a belief that is reinforced every time they are labeled as being "White trash"? Why else would they refuse to vote for political parties that want a more progressive tax burden and who want to expand the social safety net (both of which would personally benefit them if based only on income)?
#15152501
wat0n wrote:I don't see why wouldn't it be possible to be racist against whites, even in the West.

@Pants-of-dog, you claimed that the reason why identity politics has become popular among Whites is simply demographics. But that's not accurate for two reasons: Firstly, there are plenty of Whites who participate taking the side of minorities, including yourself, something that has been going on since the abolition movement in the late 18th and 19th centuries (another consequence of the Industrial Revolution, by the way). And secondly, the sort of Whites who play White identity politics, in the Trumpian way, are in the lower and lower middle classes and particularly in rural areas (which have become impoverished themselves for the reasons I mentioned before ITT) and this can be seen by their advocacy for all sort of ridiculous conspiracy theories that the vast majority of us who have a full college education laugh at.

And yet... These people, the ones who do buy into White identity politics, probably do regard themselves as victims, even victims because of their race. Why? Could it be that they don't see themselves as being privileged and that they believe the concerns about poverty are only limited when the poor belong to a minority, thereby being exclusionary as far as they are concerned, a belief that is reinforced every time they are labeled as being "White trash"? Why else would they refuse to vote for political parties that want a more progressive tax burden and who want to expand the social safety net (both of which would personally benefit them if based only on income)?


That is a great point.

Yeah, some say the poor whites shoot themselves in the foot for voting Republican. The problem is that they do not see room for themselves in the Democratic Party. The left sees them as the enemy even though they are poor and have no power. Secondly, these guys tend to be individualists and are not into collectivism, therefore the message of the Republican party which is jobs rather than free cash resonates.

That they are seeing as the deplorables by the left is why there has been a resurgence of White Nationalism. However, most of those deplorables are not racists; they are simply running scare with the imposition of woke values by the left.

Unemployed poor whites that live in the heartland of America is not the reason why some minorities have economic struggles, however, they are targeted as the problem.
#15152502
Drlee wrote:Of course they can. Take for example, a white person in Detroit. Though a small minority of the population it is possible for him/her to be racist against blacks.

What is your fucking point Julian?

OK, I am glad that you admit anyone can be a racist. Which is the worst kind of racism?
#15152506
The sort of white identity politics that Trump rode to power is not exclusive to poor or working class white people, as far as I can tell.
#15152510
Pants-of-dog wrote:The sort of white identity politics that Trump rode to power is not exclusive to poor or working class white people, as far as I can tell.


My daughters are married to Irish, Polish, and Italian Catholics. These guys voted Trump in 2016 and as far as I can tell they are not racists. This time around they were disappointed with Trump, but they will never see the Democrats as an alternative. They are married to Latin American women and they do not like ID politics. My daughters do not like ID politics either. They just want to be Americans and that is the end of the story. I seriously doubt all of the 74 million that voted for Trump are racists.

The typical Republican tends to be white, that is true. They are conservative by nature. I am conservative by nature, but more of a libertarian. Unlike many of them I am for National Medicare, pro-choice, free state education, and pro-I accept some people are racists and that is just part of the human condition. Many here call me racist for speaking my viewpoint. They get upset because I am not PC. Yes, I dislike PC and tribalism.
#15152511
Julian658 wrote:My daughters are married to Irish, Polish, and Italian Catholics. These guys voted Trump in 2016 and as far as I can tell they are not racists.


Well, there are many possible reasons for this.

1. They are racist, and you did not notice.
2. They may not hate people of colour, and may simply be supportive of those policies that benefit white people and are ignorant of how that supports racism.
3. They may be part of the Trump support that is not racist.

I seriously doubt all of the 74 million that voted for Trump are racists.


Since no one claimed that ALL Trump supporters are racist, this seems like an odd counter argument.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15152514
@Julian658

OK, I am glad that you admit anyone can be a racist. Which is the worst kind of racism?


Not so fast. I am still waiting for you to answer the question, "why are you asking if people who are minorities can be racist"?
#15152519
Drlee wrote:@Julian658



Not so fast. I am still waiting for you to answer the question, "why are you asking if people who are minorities can be racist"?


OK, gotcha!
This is for POD: We humans are all the same, there is only one human race. We evolved in tribes and evolution made the amygdala hypersensitive to members of a different tribe. I suspect this was an issue survival. Members of the opposing tribe can be violent. Perhaps those that were unconcerned with members of the opposing tribe perished and did not pass DNA to the next generation.

The good news is that with repetitive exposure the amygdala stops firing and two members of opposing tribes can be quite friendly.

Tribalism is the mother of racism and the best way to end racism is by finding a common culture . The idea of ID politics and constantly defining others as the enemy will not eliminate racism. MLK had it right. The new antiracism religion is tribal and is doomed to fail. Listen to Robert McWhorter and Robert Sapolsky.
#15152521
Pants-of-dog wrote:Well, there are many possible reasons for this.

1. They are racist, and you did not notice.
2. They may not hate people of colour, and may simply be supportive of those policies that benefit white people and are ignorant of how that supports racism.
3. They may be part of the Trump support that is not racist.


They are as racist as you POD. There is no such thing as a non-racist person. Stop using the term people of colour. Why are you so adherent to the silly jargon if ID politics. People are people, end of story!

POD, I am worried about your tribalism. :hmm:
User avatar
By Drlee
#15152523
OK, gotcha!
This is for POD: We humans are all the same, there is only one human race. We evolved in tribes and evolution made the amygdala hypersensitive to members of a different tribe. I suspect this was an issue survival. Members of the opposing tribe can be violent. Perhaps those that were unconcerned with members of the opposing tribe perished and did not pass DNA to the next generation.

The good news is that with repetitive exposure the amygdala stops firing and two members of opposing tribes can be quite friendly.

Tribalism is the mother of racism and the best way to end racism is by finding a common culture . The idea of ID politics and constantly defining others as the enemy will not eliminate racism. MLK had it right. The new antiracism religion is tribal and is doomed to fail. Listen to Robert McWhorter and Robert Sapolsky.


Come on guy. Who do you think you are talking to. This mish-mash will not fly. You did not "gotcha" anyone. Now answer my question. Why do you want to know if minorities can be racist? What is your point?

Please stop with the pseudo-science stuff.
#15152525
Drlee wrote:Come on guy. Who do you think you are talking to. This mish-mash will not fly. You did not "gotcha" anyone. Now answer my question. Why do you want to know if minorities can be racist? What is your point?

Please stop with the pseudo-science stuff.

Robert Sapolski a pseudoscientist? OK
The point is that anyone can be a racist. If anyone can be a racist we should use a different paradigm to fight racism. Screaming racism 24/7 is not the solution.
#15152539
The fact that almost all humans are subconsciously racist does not, in any way, suggest we should not point out racism when we see it.

In fact, it suggests the opposite. Because we are subconsciously racist, we need other people to point it out for us.
#15152543
Pants-of-dog wrote:The fact that almost all humans are subconsciously racist does not, in any way, suggest we should not point out racism when we see it.

In fact, it suggests the opposite. Because we are subconsciously racist, we need other people to point it out for us.


I agree, but it should happen naturally and not by imposing your views on others or angrily calling out others. This tribalism creates more tribalism and division.

The best way is to follow a single unifying culture, and have adequate exposure to each other. Familiarity eliminates racism. Otherwise these things can fester for hundreds of years.

A good example of success is Singapore. Their nationality is way more important than skin color, religion, or ethnicity. Sadly, in the USA and Canada we are marching in the opposite direction with muticulturality, ID politics, and pointing the finger at the other group in anger (as you state above). That will not work POD.
#15152544
Julian658 wrote:I agree,


Yes, your previous argument was wrong.

but it should happen naturally and not by imposing your views on others or angrily calling out others. This tribalism creates more tribalism and division.


You do not seem to know what tone policing is.

Let me know if you have any questions!

The best way is to follow a single unifying culture, and have adequate exposure to each other. Familiarity eliminates racism. Otherwise these things can fester for hundreds of years.

A good example of success is Singapore. Their nationality is way more important than skin color, religion, or ethnicity. Sadly, in the USA and Canada we are marching in the opposite direction with muticulturality, ID politics, and pointing the finger at the other group in anger (as you state above). That will not work POD.


Since you seem to constantly make errors in debates about racism, it is hard to assume that you have a strong level of knowledge and experience with fighting racism. Consequently, I find it hard to believe that this plan of yours would work without some evidence.
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