Racism definition & use - Page 18 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15152770
@Godstud
Racism is a behavior. Nothing else you mentioned is


Precisely. And as such it can be controlled. This is why I reject Julian's pseudoscience about racism being baked into our psyche. There is all kinds of stuff that we could justify if we go far enough back in our genetic history. It simply won't fly today. Behavior is learned.

The very notion that racism is a naturally occurring phenomena is preposterous. Well. Even if there was some truth to the notion (and I do not grant that there is) we overcome far stronger impulses from earliest childhood. He will find no cover in claiming that racism is baked-in.
#15152788
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Drlee

As I previously mentioned, I have no trouble accepting that this reporter holds racist beliefs.

And then I made the second point that openly showing racist beliefs about white people is pretty much the entire extent of racism towards whites.

Meanwhile, BIPOC people have to deal with a lot more manifestations of racism than simply having people say things.

OK, POD. I see your point. I can understand why those that see themselves as oppressed want to to do payback and dislike the other side with racial slurs. However, at the end of the day it just causes more division and tribalism.

No, I am not making any of these assumptions. I completely agree and accept that white people can have their feelings hurt.

Nevertheless, you see nothing wrong with this sort of racism.

And you still seem to have no problem with my claim that white people are not suffering in any way beyond having their feelings hurt.


Once again you assume all white people are top dogs in the world.


No. It is a fact that no white people suffered any material problems in your two examples, and this is true even if most white people are not in a position of power. And it is true even if you incorrectly infer that I am saying all white people are successful, and my claim is true even if a majority of white people are not successful.

A white professor in Evergreen lost his job because he went to work when whites were not allowed on campus. Asians are denied admission to Harvard so they can favor POC. However, they also deny admissions to whites. The main difference is that whites do not complain because of white guilt. Being rejected to college because of ethnicity is an atrocity POD.

Can you think of ways that white people are protected from racism that are not about being a demographic majority? Here is a hint: in South Africa under Apartheid, white people were the minority yet still were able to protect themselves from racist discrimination.

Can you guess how?


It is no secret that most in the world see the European genotype as the standard of reference.
#15152789
Drlee wrote:@Godstud

Precisely. And as such it can be controlled. This is why I reject Julian's pseudoscience about racism being baked into our psyche. There is all kinds of stuff that we could justify if we go far enough back in our genetic history. It simply won't fly today. Behavior is learned.

The very notion that racism is a naturally occurring phenomena is preposterous. Well. Even if there was some truth to the notion (and I do not grant that there is) we overcome far stronger impulses from earliest childhood. He will find no cover in claiming that racism is baked-in.


I assume you never read Dr. Robert Sapolski. i suggest you do.
#15152794
Julian658 wrote:OK, POD. I see your point. I can understand why those that see themselves as oppressed want to to do payback and dislike the other side with racial slurs. However, at the end of the day it just causes more division and tribalism.


I doubt it causes any real problems since white people almost never even have to fact this little bit of racism.

Nevertheless, you see nothing wrong with this sort of racism.

Once again you assume all white people are top dogs in the world.


No. My claims are true no matter how I feel about racist slurs, and no matter how that most white people are not in positions of power.

A white professor in Evergreen lost his job because he went to work when whites were not allowed on campus.


No, this is not true.

Asians are denied admission to Harvard so they can favor POC. However, they also deny admissions to whites. The main difference is that whites do not complain because of white guilt. Being rejected to college because of ethnicity is an atrocity POD.


You seem to think AA is racist. It is not.

It is no secret that most in the world see the European genotype as the standard of reference.


I guess you need to learn how white people can protect themselves from racist discrimination even if they are a minority.

That is okay. It is good that I can show you where your research needs to go.
#15152802
Julian658 wrote:Your constipation secondary to severe coprophagia is getting worse.
Seeing as I ignore racist Fascists, you can take that shit and eat it yourself. I wasn't talking to you anyways you racist piece of shit.
#15152813
Pants-of-dog wrote:I doubt it causes any real problems since white people almost never even have to fact this little bit of racism.


The Europeans have been running this land forever, The government has have now imported people with different cultural values and they wan to run the system. This happens when immigration is done incorrectly.

Imagine you live in Chile small town and one day you wake and you find all the signs are in Korean. No one knows Spanish and you are forced to learn Korean so you can find employment. That is stressful for the native population,
User avatar
By ingliz
#15152821
Julian658 wrote:The Europeans have been running this land forever

Wrong!

The Europeans have been running Chile since 1540.

That is stressful for the native population

And you don't think it was just as stressful for the natives when the Spanish turned up in 1540, uninvited?
#15152826
Julian658 wrote:The Europeans have been running this land forever, The government has have now imported people with different cultural values and they wan to run the system. This happens when immigration is done incorrectly.

Imagine you live in Chile small town and one day you wake and you find all the signs are in Korean. No one knows Spanish and you are forced to learn Korean so you can find employment. That is stressful for the native population,


You are doing that thing again where you ignore what I write and just post some new racist meme.

Since you are not interested in a dialogue, I will move my arguments forward by myself.

—————————

So we have seen that the most racism that white people will experience in the USA is mean words. But even if we just look at speech, we still see a vast difference between how black and white people deal with racism.

There is ho white equivalent to the N word. And the reason for that is simple: whites as a race were never chattel slaves and there is no language or speech that was used to perpetuate this racism that never happened.

So, when BIPOC people deal with racist speech, they are fighting against a whole tradition and history of language being used to dehumanise and oppress, while white people are not.
#15152833
Pants-of-dog wrote:
So we have seen that the most racism that white people will experience in the USA is mean words. But even if we just look at speech, we still see a vast difference between how black and white people deal with racism.

There is ho white equivalent to the N word. And the reason for that is simple: whites as a race were never chattel slaves and there is no language or speech that was used to perpetuate this racism that never happened.

So, when BIPOC people deal with racist speech, they are fighting against a whole tradition and history of language being used to dehumanise and oppress, while white people are not.


I agree, an insult is only effective if the offended party has a weakness in that area. For example calling a tall ma a dwarf has no effect. However, calling a dwarf a short statue man is painful. How can we fix this POD?
#15152869
I agree, an insult is only effective if the offended party has a weakness in that area. For example calling a tall ma a dwarf has no effect. However, calling a dwarf a short statue man is painful. How can we fix this POD?


Easy. Three step process.

1. Don't do it yourself. Ever. If there is any question in your mind about whether what you are about to say is harmful, don't say it. Change it.

2. Soundly and instantly condemn anyone else you see doing it.

3. Elect a government that will not tolerate its citizens harming one another either physically or mentally.
#15152945
Drlee wrote:Easy. Three step process.

1. Don't do it yourself. Ever. If there is any question in your mind about whether what you are about to say is harmful, don't say it. Change it.

2. Soundly and instantly condemn anyone else you see doing it.

3. Elect a government that will not tolerate its citizens harming one another either physically or mentally.


I agree, but we must avoid the idea of walking in eggshells when in the presence of someone that may be offended.

I used to play golf with a friend that was married to a latin woman from my own country. While playing golf he would use all the poor taste jokes about my ethnicity he learned form his wife. It did not bother because i knew he was a true friend and true friends should be able to rib each other. With the new PC culture this is gone and hence a close friendship will be a rarity.
#15152952
I used to play golf with a friend that was married to a latin woman from my own country. While playing golf he would use all the poor taste jokes about my ethnicity he learned form his wife. It did not bother because i knew he was a true friend and true friends should be able to rib each other. With the new PC culture this is gone and hence a close friendship will be a rarity.


You really are given to histrionics, aren't you. So reading this I am to conclude that I cannot rib my friends or them me? It may surprise you to hear that I disagree. Two things:

First of all, I do not believe that most close friends are so disrespectful as to say something that might truly offend the other friend. Close friends know the limits.

The second is that what you call "Political Correctness" does not prevent a close friendship. I do not actually believe in the concept of political correctness. I find it mostly bigoted people whining because it is no longer acceptable in polite society to be a bigot. That said. Be kind to other people actually increases the number of friends that one has not decreases it. Perhaps, if you believe that friendship requires that the other person indulge your habit of making bigoted remarks then obviously your circle of friends, hopefully would dramatically narrow.

Friendship is not based upon bigotry. Friends are not there to indulge bad behavior. Right?
#15152958
Drlee wrote:You really are given to histrionics, aren't you. So reading this I am to conclude that I cannot rib my friends or them me? It may surprise you to hear that I disagree. Two things:

First of all, I do not believe that most close friends are so disrespectful as to say something that might truly offend the other friend. Close friends know the limits.

The second is that what you call "Political Correctness" does not prevent a close friendship. I do not actually believe in the concept of political correctness. I find it mostly bigoted people whining because it is no longer acceptable in polite society to be a bigot. That said. Be kind to other people actually increases the number of friends that one has not decreases it. Perhaps, if you believe that friendship requires that the other person indulge your habit of making bigoted remarks then obviously your circle of friends, hopefully would dramatically narrow.

Friendship is not based upon bigotry. Friends are not there to indulge bad behavior. Right?

I agree in principle with regards to basic politeness. You introduced the term of bigotry to make your point stronger. A subtle straw man that somewhat worked for you.

Good friends talk about anything. I try to do that here and you and God immediately yell racism. I don't think you get the point.
#15152966
You introduced the term of bigotry to make your point stronger. A subtle straw man that somewhat worked for you.


Bullshit. Here is what you posted:

@Julian658 While playing golf he would use all the poor taste jokes about my ethnicity he learned form his wife.


You are the one who brought up bigotry. YOU went on to mention political correctness. Now you want everyone to believe I introduced a straw man. You need to either get your head out of your ass or stop trolling.

Good friends talk about anything.


My good friends and I do not have racist conversations. If they try I cut them off and tell them that I do not accept that kind of talk. We do not have any conversation that we know will offend the other person. I really do not foster racist friends anyway.

I try to do that here and you and God immediately yell racism.


This is a public forum. There is no place here for bigoted speech.

I do not understand the "you and God" stuff. I suspect you believe that is edgy or something. You refer to anti-racism as a "religion". As a religious person I find that mildly offensive but then you intended to be offensive so that should not bother you at all.
#15152970
Maybe I'm being too simplistic about the whole issue, I am honestly (considering the times and places and people I was raised around) pretty color-blind... I view ''Racism'' as a hatred/contempt and/or dehumanizing attitude towards another human being of slightly different to greatly different biological origin and heritage to oneself. Although, I could also see where people could possibly hate and de-humanize themselves and others of their own biological heritage and origin too . Everyone is capable of this sin, as with all the others. He who hates his brother is a murderer in his heart, especially he who denies the one who is his brother of being one at all.

I also think that we moderns flagellate ourselves over this issue because while it is a negative and sinful trait, it also appears to be firmly embedded into fallen human nature, a kind of experiential proof of Original Sin that we either try to efface in ourselves or engage in pretzel logic to try to deny or even exaggerate in ourselves-but more often-accuse others of.

In a modern world that denies most sin even exists, Racism is the last evil most in modern society can still agree universally to acknowledge.
#15152973
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Julian658

What is reverse racism? Can you prove it exists?


Bret Weinstein was forced to quit teaching at Evergreen.
Any white or Asian kid that is not accepted to the Ivy League school make room for someone less talented. Sadly this is damaging for unqualified people that get admitted to a level of rigor that may be too much. For example there is a rush to admit unqualified minorities to STEM. The end result is a large rate of dropout and bitterness.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 ... e-students
#15152974
Drlee wrote:Bullshit. Here is what you posted:



You are the one who brought up bigotry. YOU went on to mention political correctness. Now you want everyone to believe I introduced a straw man. You need to either get your head out of your ass or stop trolling.



My good friends and I do not have racist conversations. If they try I cut them off and tell them that I do not accept that kind of talk. We do not have any conversation that we know will offend the other person. I really do not foster racist friends anyway.



This is a public forum. There is no place here for bigoted speech.

I do not understand the "you and God" stuff. I suspect you believe that is edgy or something. You refer to anti-racism as a "religion". As a religious person I find that mildly offensive but then you intended to be offensive so that should not bother you at all.


Yep, your so-called fiends have polite superficial conversations and they walk on eggshells around you.

Do you realize that among friends it is easy to tell good from bad intent. Why do you think some minorities call each other the "N" word. They know there is no harm among them.

You are way too prude Doc.
#15152975
Julian658 wrote:I assume you never read Dr. Robert Sapolski. i suggest you do.

I hope you don’t conflate racism and notions of kinship/relatedness in evolutionary biology and then project it onto Sapolsky who is very careful in his theoretical distinction and interaction of biology and culture.
An interview with Dr. Sapolsky.
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/450016/Racism-inequality-and-conflict-an-interview-with-Prof-Robert
Q: So, do you regard racism as a cultural issue, or is it an innate characteristic of human beings?

A: Well, in so far as I think the science shows, race is not a particularly strong innate category in our heads, and racism can be changed as an unconscious category surprisingly easily. We are not looking at biology here. It’s cultural, but it is very deeply cultural.

In fact if you watch his first lecture out of a series on Stanford he points out many who have crudely abused biological science to terrible ends on such grounds.
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