Esotericism, Mysticism & Conspiracy - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Theories and happenings too odd for the main forums.
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By noemon
#15152710
So how do you interpret the ethnic-cleansing of Armenians by Azerbaijan and Turkey?

How do you see the war between Russia and Turkey in Syria and Libya playing out?
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15152720
@noemon I have already answered these questions from horizontal perspective ...

    Odiseizam wrote:btw nor Turkey nor Russia killed each other in Syria, there was just one spinn when deep state skim was instigated after what the turkish pm was fired and tr-ru relations were normalized [2] similar spin was pushed on Trump too with staged chlorin attack on Douma [2]

    about Armenia again we are going deep oftopic in this thread, I'll just guess at stake are bigger deals like turkish new ties and azeris gas, but as conflict it would go again in new rounds, depends when and how russians will be loosen to back up armenians again [3]

from vertical do I'll say no one in this world can escape causality, not even Russia, only way this to be done is by intervention from above, even all geopolitical events are govern from this respect, but we are not capable to understand the humanistic natural physics truly and what about metaphysics, thus its not in my ability to say but only guess why this or that finally happened to someone collectively or individually, on top of that there are many interwoven horizontal and vertical parallels that simply its futile to try to find final meaning behind any earthly events, although most of the time they seems to us as understandable, or at least we need comfort so we accept particular truth as finite ...

    I'll simplify and say > we are tied in world by too much Free Will and too much causality, and when things happen we must understand that as there is physical genetics so is spiritual one too i.e. as healthiness and illnesses are inherited by the bodies so as virtues and sins by the soul, and all that , thus we are bound to our past also and along the current behavior and circumstances we are projecting the future with the will that we are laying ahead for certain conservation or change, like this are bounded also entities like states systems ideologies or organizations, but what is above all is the opportunity many things to be repaired by authority from above ...

... earlier when some tribe got king it was easier conservation to be more lasting because Grace was poured or taken through one man, while nowadays that is more problematic because in question are multitude of elites in one system, so any particular change goes either slow or is impossible so regularly we are delusional that we can welcome quick change and thus people become accustomed to revolutions, but what as result brings chaos and like that no stable change but even greater evils, yet there are systems that are so corrupt that they are welcoming such viruses as normal healing, although again if this is done through violence it will suffocate any chance for normal change, so to speak living in these information times what we need now is massive intellectual cohesion and like that managing and resolving risks or crisis ...

https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15152697#p15152697

    ... but who from the big societies is ready on such stunt, only small one can afford such experiment and as such to be motivation for others, but there is less courage in small ones coz they tend to copy the strategies from their center of gravity and again we are waiting just for the inevitable i.e. the entropy of capitalism, but what in my opinion it can be cushioned if lets say present modern empires get entangled in mutual understanding about the needed risk-management not just in case of economy but also quality of life, for what I think we would need socialistic rearrangement but through agrarian decentralization ...

https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15152671#p15152671

but this is wishful reasoning if we know that some elites have different agenda in mind, predominately the western one who seeks to bring heaven on earth through western governed new world order and this alone is enough huge risk coz their wealth now is fictional backed by the current debt and trading schemes, so I expect that they indeed are willing by any price (even ww3) to use all their current might so they will position themselves as leaders in any future nwo!
User avatar
By noemon
#15152722
You 're not answering either question at least not in any comprehensible way, and denying reality is not answering the questions either.

These are not complicated questions:

So how do you interpret the ethnic-cleansing of Armenians by Azerbaijan and Turkey?

How do you see the war between Russia and Turkey in Syria and Libya playing out?
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15152727
why You think that reality is what You believe it is per-se!? You and me we are just observers, but as I said I have some experience in the spiritual world so I interpret the events also from different angles, utterly that is mine right as your yours ...

... in case of western imperialism if we know that as such is seedling of the freemasonry its obvious that as neopagan is pushed because enlightenment nwo goals, this also is noted in the Revelation so Christians would not throw stones on them but they can just defend themselves, in case of Russia we can just observe that as state is acting just like that i.e. its in defensive mode, its guarding just the basic interests not rushing to make instant blow or victories like in soviet times and just tactically waiting on western exhibitionism, and exhibitionism is indeed, maybe when and if Turkey jeopardize their interests it will change its current geopolitical strategy, there is even prophecy from greek elder that Constantinople will be again Orthodox, but who knows why such thing exist, maybe so it would scare Turkey not to act deceptively !? but turkish south stream pipeline and s-400 were good risk-management moves in this respect, although in future with new turkish president they can become exactly huge risks! so what else to say noemon than dont see the reality as flat plate ...
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15152810
Odiseizam wrote:think till now are covered ww2 through sponsored soviets and nazis, ww3 is elaborated as possible scenario tho that still needs elaboration, and whats left is ww1 ...


how ww-I became reality?

1. we need to have motives
2. followed by reasons
3. balanced by current elites

I cannot stress enough how enlightenment era was crowned by freemasonry, it all began with uK civil war and overtaking of the british empire by bancsters cartel which was installed in city-of-london [1][1] [2][2] and which most probably became godfather of freemasonry!? just guess, for such club of neopagans to became religion, hm, that needs huge backing, and in uK for sure that wasnt the royal family! anyway later they overtook usA then France and after the rest european royal states ...

    1. and then along came the final goal creating one world government so they would control all the world, lets say it was western imperialism from the shadows with pax-europeana in their mind, that was rising slowly but steady, yet inner rivalry and the eastern empires were huge problem so the neopagan ideal of 'Liberty, Equality, Fraternity'' would start to shine above all!

    2. so we have the motive, but why such globalistic ideal wouldnt be pushed in peaceful manner, simply one system to be stable on long run it must completely dissolve the last one, and indeed whole europe was on knees just Russian and Ottoman empires were still free from their bond [1][1] think this is one of the main reasons for ww1, but how we can explain the inner european freemasonic struggle [1] if they were both on the same page they wouldnt annihilated each other so cruelly, and here comes as good explanation the "teutons vs julians" conspi theory [1][1]

    3. yet there were so many interests on the map except the ideological one, and no matter how important it was in same time there was war for resources influence and as usual geo-ego-tripping, the opportunity who would lead the world was temptation for every big nation, even more for the german, but also at stake was too much debt along too much broken promises, eventually capitalized by the main-bancsters through the ww-1 , so its not so simple to say it was war per-se coz new world order, but mostly for compacting own lines and redistributing power in the neopagan realm!
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15152865
Odiseizam wrote:and here comes as good explanation the "teutons vs julians" conspi theory [1][1]


its shame how historians cant find will to deconstruct this theory in inferring way no matter its weight of truth or historians point of view [1] what eventually would be possible only if there was true open society around [1]

despite the revisionistic logic or discountable authenticity of the research by the "franciscan monk", this theory points to one prime european event, the counterintelligence infiltration by any side, also gives many logical answers to notion how and why there are so many current illogical things eg. the monument of alberP in wdc [1][1] etc. etc. , but above all this lets say "conspi" theory its very neat and factual to some degree, and definitely without the illuminati hype it appears its viable one for historical examination ...

and indeed the illuminati hype is conspi till bone, here is how it goes ...

    ... just to mention many need to be careful when stating illuminati control the world, which think is wrong if we know that they are most probably reflex as some templars were earlier who after their abolishment mingled with the north gnostic elites, renegade templars that most probably were seeders of freemasonry, and from the available sources it seems the same was case with some renegade jesuits who after their abolishment in 18 century [1] went against vatican, which eg. in the french revolution sided with freemasonic elites and their agenda, on other hand they were sheltered also in Prussia [1] and maybe then they tried to promote the illuminati through their peer [2] as own esoteria as deistic illuminism [2] but think there is no evidence that they are somehow the western leaders behind the modern pax-romana, except one clue that they became so powerful that actually they introduced the american banc'cartel on Jekyll island through LaFayette [2] another more speculative would be that in city-of-london they are the head if indeed BEIC is their company [2][2][2] run either by their own or as vatican infiltration, so in that case vatican or jesuits alone indeed would be the prime instigators of the nwo skim and the promoters of the enlightenment era, but this is way to unbelievable, in best case they as two sides form the same european coin are united in their strive for new world order beneath western boot! but the hype goes on and on [2] and what to say its not enough plausible to me, way logical is that illuminati are rothschildean skim [3][3] but even that without further historical examination and evidence it would be just assumption! anyway more probable is that those rogue renegade jesuits made parallel order as sect with so called black pope, coz sitting in vatican as such it would be already loudly suggested by any insider till now, even from prophetic side they will not be the main culprits in the end times but that would be benedictine pope [4][4]
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15152891
when I'll stumble on the jesuit hype, regularly I try to find demystification, dont know why, maybe I am too unwilling to accept that vatican even these days is some bogeyman , simply its too good to be true! yet that dont means that it cant get corrupted, plus it has big past centuries legacy of overthrows between european royal clans! in this respect it must be noted that in one time jesuits became its secret militia [1] and as suggested in this first footenote they are opposite to opus-dei the current vatican militia and conspirators formed in wake of ww2 by cia [1][1] infamous role that once was probably also templars mission among other [2] but what makes them rogue is exactly that moment of their abolishment surfacing as illuminati in Prussia and among jacobins in France as could be seen from the footnotes in the previous post, on other that is not clearly stated by jesuit of the time [3] and somehow as there is conspiracy so they would be seen as teutonic/zionistic puppets at the time [4][4] but defacto we cant be sure whether indeed jesuits were those conspirators, simply in medieval europe most of the universities were jesuit thus anyone that has atendet one it was seen as jesuit although he was just layman, so interpretation of sources from literal perspective is by all means wrong, it must be taken in account all angles when one research ...

    the theory of the "franciscan monk" has one interesting point > who overtook the lead before ww2 [5] and if this is true then yes we can speculate that jesuits indeed were behind JPMorgan and are the southern clique, but that dont makes them the forerunners of the enlightenment nwo ideal at all, contrary after they were topped by the walstreet crash the new european nwo experiment began in face of hitlers-nsdap began, some say sure enough planned earlier but also continued later also after the aftermath of ww2 [6][6][6] now per-se these elites are not american or european but shadowy western one, but lets say they are hiding in usA even infiltrated deep inside its core since the american revolution, and predominantly from there they are pushing their nwo again again and again! be aware the last footnote has many traps around dont fall instantly on first sight! but this next documentary is exceptional one [7] that probably had put in motion even the brexit inertia, at least in Farage head, after what he started to act the chicken run in [8]

#15152902
Terrorists should abandon violence and start building green EV tech companies because EV's are the only thing that will get the the Great Powers to leave the middle east. I can imagine the hot deserts plastered with solar panels as far as the eye can see...
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15152946
@Unthinking Majority, they should + tuned to GGGH while heading back home ...
________________________________________________________

if there is real conspiracy that would be felt soon because there is instant call for change in eU [1][1] whould that bring quickly transnational western supraste after, dont know, the intention is merging usE and usA day after, and obviously will follow un-nwo, but as in case with the previous plans for nwo things will crumble with this one too!?

and who were these previous ideas plans agendas ...

one actual as predecessor of UN was league of nations, instigated by carnegie, and who was carnegie [1][1] an "crown" puppet [2][2][2] something like soros nowadays, what is more funny this city-of-london crown is said to be european blacknobility round table, but to me is more important whether they are drinking eu-genic nescafe today [3] anyway AndrewC was the man back then who promoted the nwo show <>


A Chronology of the UN - The Revolutionary Steps to Global Tyranny - http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/chronologies/un.htm


The real origins of the League of Nations concept in the few decades prior to the First World War can be traced to steel magnate Andrew Carnegie and then scholar Woodrow Wilson. In the late 19th century, seeking to excise the guilt he had amassed with his fortune and reflecting the influence of Pall Mall Gazette editor and advocate of Anglo-American unity, William T. Stead (who was also close to Cecil Rhodes); Carnegie had embarked on a crusade for world peace, making a ‘British-American Union’ the central pillar of his vision. By the start of the 20th century, however, Carnegie had dropped that idea in favour of a ‘League of Peace’ or ‘League of Nations’, comprising a combination of the leading imperial powers, complete with an international police force. Carnegie even publicised his proposals in a short article entitled ‘The Next Step – a League of Nations’ for Outlook magazine (25 May 1907).

https://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2015/03/08/the-invisible-man-of-the-new-world-order-raymond-b-fosdick-1883-1972/


    1910 - The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace is formed.
    - Its original stated purpose was "to hasten the abolition of international
    war." The endowment now works closely with the U.N. and its agencies, as well
    as other groups espousing world government.

    NWO Critique and Chronology - http://www.skeptictank.org/files//books/nwo.htm

CC .. the organization was able to seize the opportunity to help shape the design of the League of Nations, which was established at the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.

https://www.carnegiecouncil.org/about/history/timeline


    Bilderberg policy is carried out by the Bilderberg Steering Committee, made up of 24 Europeans and 15 Americans; and by the Advisory Committee, which forms a much smaller group within the organization. All American members of the Steering Committee are members of the CFR. The permanent Bilderberg Secretariat is located at: 1 Smidswater, the Hague, the Netherlands. Their address in America is at: 345 E. 46th Street, New York City (which is also the location of the Trilateral Commission, and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace).

    The American Friends of Bilderbergers, with offices in New York City, is an IRS-approved charitable organization that receives regular contributions from Exxon, Arco, and IBM; while their meetings are funded by the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, and the Carnegie Endowment Fund.

    http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/NWO/nwo7.html

but even before league of nations there was other project financed by carnegie called IPU for which conspiracy shadow first time I have heard on video form Truthstream Media yt-channel called The Even Older Plan for World Gov't You've Never Heard Of, where this is witnessed by Edith K. Roosevelt almost as pamphlet year after famous kennedy demystification message [1] as there was mood in usA back then to demystify the shadowy elites ~ “Little Known World Parliament Group Pushes Along” ~ newspaper Tallahassee Democrat ~ Sun, Oct 7, 1962

User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15153023
Odiseizam wrote: an "crown" puppet [2][2][2] something like soros nowadays, what is more funny this city-of-london crown is said to be european blacknobility round table


    if this is true then usA society is wrongly accused as world menace, they are actually victims to some european royal families that arranged own plan for world domination, even the evangelical neocon dominionists are their hostage serving the purpose - not just for the sake of the american war economy, but also for swaying the conservative public opinion that they are working for national interest, instead they are pushing the nwo agenda of these ex-european royal snakes and lizards, the first families clans gangs, and the second their battlers vassal serfs, and all of them at least in its top are true neopagans priests priestess devotees, so dont wonder at all when I'll stumble upon unbelievable claims for modern mind [1] on other hand think what is truly unbelievable its that as conspi theory this one is more logical than the one with the jesuits (at least (for now) to me) altho some could argue that the jesuits also are glued to the nwo goal or that they are the glue [1] like they were abolished not coz heresy but coz their spying might [1] so is said they should be the authority that should bring the enlightenment spiritually the plentiful Christians and push them to universalism in one'love'religion [1]

anyway when these socalled black nobility clans would be examined through the "teuton vs julians" theory one thing that is "chops the eye" is how they actually were misusing vatican in their own worldly intersts, so its not even strange how and why so decadent were some popes, as abomination practically started as rivalry between the teutonic ghibellines and latin guelphs [1][1][1] some narrow them now as "crown temple" black "neri" guelphs [2][2][2][2] from this last footnote there is some strange info about BEIC that is co-op between house-of-windsor and the rest of european black nobility, and are there so huge conspi lines throwen about this thats insane, as their bots to speculate for them and their crossbreed - lets say in one huge royal european family that is almost stupid anyone to dive in their genes and heraldry [3] they are actually the southern and northern european cliques coercing and coexisting in one same goals, more or less cold bloody bastards of the crusaders if we know that they founded and funded them earlier, now as said two emporors fighting for same pax-romana throne [4][5][5][5] and if deconstructed like this then this theory would need further sliding on the assumption edge [6][6][6] especially jumping around modern mafia wealth [6][6][6] now what makes all this interesting is when someone is reconnecting all possible dots in different mosaics, and this is unbelievable to extent for soap scenarios [7][7][7] dont laugh. if this is true we are all doomed soon, but enjoy d show, because all current multipolar world its not just by accident, as I am earlier reffering the goal in this life is Repentence and Salvation from Christian Perspective, so diving deep in someone imperialism wouldnt help, but can be at hand so one wouldnt judge others, just except that to them this is the final joy and road to eternal condemnation [8] so dont rush to be royal :) and be wary that no one really knows who is whom master and who serf eg. you'll hear even that rotschields are actually bankers for the jesuits [9][9][9] actually opus-dei holds Malta not jesuits, but I must acknowledge I am not some kind of catholic demystificator thus I could just suggest someones doting in this case, and maybe make some documentary someday :) I just know those maltese knights are the socialistic international globalists that hold the european and american nwo line, but wont argue how, it would take time, its enough to say they are sovereign secular noncelibactic order, who knows maybe they are the templar remnant, probably there are some clues!? what is true is these two european cliques are bashing each other for sure, maybe after all they are not so compact in their agendas or eventually coz envy they sabotage each other, but what is important till now they didnt succeed to build their infamous nwo although their agendas are constantly in place!

    do I believe in this, hm if this thread wasnt moved to the conspi-subforum I'll wont check it so truly every conspi vibe, now I am spinning around and must say something smells right, but what, probably the "franciscan-monk" theory :)
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15153051
it would be nice if Diana fingered them all, anyway most of those suggestions in the above footnotes should be one by one deconstructed on dedicated conspi e-forum so it will be clear what is fact what assumption and what hoax, but coz as we can see there is no will for such feat, even as attempt dangerous from many reasons, I can freely say loosing hope in democracy is imminent ... at least some academicians should demystify such conspi-mood so humans will not be fooled if not educated ! if its comfort one can always remind him/her self that his/her life in this world is because gaining greater spiritual freedom, so messing in the worldly affairs is just unnecessary waist of time!

____________________________________________________________________________

anyway if there is need of analytical comparison about the notion who holds the strings of western imperialism at the moment, I'll say again that would be the northern european clique, and regarding Malta as their southern throne to me somehow more appealing is the fact that Maltese Knights were earlier in southern hands but later fell in northern ... I'll try to elaborate ...

    although Burgundy was in french realm of cultural influence still the count of Savoy was with teutonic ghibelline roots [1] what could be seen also as from their red and white heraldry [1][1] so as through their tolerance of fascist in Italy [2] logically later reflex of servitude after earlier with german help they united the peninsula in one kingdom [2] maybe fuzzy assumption but if we know their history this should be obvious [3][4][4][4][4] yet in its position mids french realm indeed [5][5][5] now altho Savoy has own knight order [6] earlier they were to some extent patron of templars and after their abolishment to the knights of malta [6][6][6] from the history we know that many remnants of templars crossed in hospitalers [6] just compare their heraldry ...

... now this is just deductive logic and needs devoted research so it would be proven or disproven correctly! even more in case of the assumptions from the previous posts > that opus-dei is cia affiliate and vice versa [7] who holds the knights of malta or vice versa [7][7][7] I mean there is connection coz untrue monastic order [8] and there is suspicion [9][9][9] just we need to know by what principle someone gets the title maltese knight whether by poignant pope or by secular abbot if we know that there are protestant and orthodox members too, tho this would be just guessing because there is no official memberlist [9] tho there are speculations that among them is even Bill Clinton [9] what I suspect, but who knows maybe he is convert :) so be aware there are also many cross interpretations except hoaxes [10][10] and one needs patience so it would be on the right lead, but til then most probably he would be removed from the investigation chair :) so if one wants to demystify those plots and knots its more effectively to act through Prayer than digging as historian or journalist, coz we are not in war with humans but against the spiritual forces of evil, and today they can posses one group d day after another, which means its futile to chase for culprit, and if I need to say for sure who is behind the new world order i rather see the neopagan ideologies than their peer victims, whether they were acting alone or together [11]
User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15153080
I know that the last 11-th footnote is boring read, yet is link to conspiracyarchive site that have at least more dedicated approach in demystification (and mystification) of conspi theories, if You like more bald in the analysis, just read how some of them reason about illuminati [1][1][1] and You'll see at least its extra informative, so there are clever thinkers on the topic, yet without neat debate on particular e-forum among academicians again this info will be marked at best as onesided, simply it needs skepticism even it was accepted as mainstream history, just so it would be acceptable for the modern humanistic mind, although even then counter-propaganda will burst from some side, and till then it will be welcomed by most of the people as phantasmagoria, simply they are accustomed to verification by some authority!

this said eg. although there is quite historical evidence that founding fathers of usA were freemasons (altho notion that needs constant polishing [1] and refurbishment) still common american will not accept that they (intentionally or not) were followers of the enlightenment era ideals - among whom illuminism was highest, and from Christian perspective that would be luciferianism, for what in my knowledge only alberP among the famous masonic priests is most sincere i.e. about the neopagan genesis of this cult [2] and were they (the founding father) aware of such conspiracy, judge by yourself along the next footnoted links ...

if someone is questionably reemason as antifederalist that was Jefferson, but even for him there is strange info, hm, maybe he was obligated to become one so it will follow the heard [1][1] but Washington was special case [2] and Franklin was one of a kind [3][3] frankly what were the seeds such were the fruits!

► Show Spoiler


____________________________________________________________________________

so we can see that this freemasonic inertia led to safe heaven for freemasonry in the new world, from where will be managed all the next experiments in the centuries ahead, where the Western Imperialsim was born in new and shiny clothes, what is less known do, there was room even for greater freemasonic iconography as such poured on every corner, but as elites they couldnt sway the common Christian immigrant so they started pushing all kind new esoterical teachings that would appeal to the masses and force them to abandon Christianity, and when even that couldnt help, it was introduced trend of further denominalization of the american evangelical realm [1][1] they as freemasons actually started to use propaganda on mass level exactly against Christianity, but black Afroamerican slaves have save the day ... pure luck that they didnt like the paint of and on lady liberty, tho with few exceptions that fell probably from voodoo land [1][1]

now again be careful where You fly :) safe tripping!

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/10/31/definitive-guide-to-denver-international-airport-conspiracy-theories/

User avatar
By Odiseizam
#15153158
it must be noted that while in the beginning usA freemasons were more entrepreneurs, back on the old continent fr'ma were more academician, at least as renaissance reflex art was on higher level, and also humanism as empirical science in every aspect of the educated man was norm, after all in europe universities were occurrence for quite a while, so the freemasonic cream as always was european, tho concealed [1] and after the 'franciscan monk" theory its problem for me to narrow its fr'ma birthplace, indeed its standardized in Scotland but as neopaganism has roots in medieval Germany, and before that as dualism in France if we know that catharism rejected earthly authority, what suggest that the goal is neopagan overthrowing of Christianity, something that earlier was momentum in Byzant were because compact empire again and again was resolved ...

    Image

anyway here in context of esoteria behind the neopagan western imperialism (in face of new pax-romana) we should look as pivot that german rosencruician roots [1][1] on which later have jump the baconian bandwagon [1][1] after what flowed inertia towards standardized neopagan religion in face of freemasonry, which after has spilled in every intellectual european corner, even reached level of elite invisible college from where [1][1] (just like in renaissance italy) flourished all kinds of ideas and agendas, probably some sort of later standardization of the renaissance utopianism too either in socialistic or communistic way, tho read bellow in this post - somehow maybe this wasnt their ideological spill, if we have in mind how compact was freemasonry on spiritual level, tho with my shallow knowledge on this matter I cant conclude for sure who were the forerunners on the matter, from which tho most profound were fabians [2][2][2] and from them as eugenic kick the most devoted soc.ing. tavitstock institute [2][2][2] to them surely predecessor was marxism, but what is interesting to be noted is that someone have put even marx in the masonic equation [2] hm maybe possible just like antichristian-comrade of the enlightenment neopagans [1][1] what is strange do is how occultism was on rise among europeans too in 19 century, as if there was plot for swaying if not Catholics then Protestants, altho there was huge mess on many levels, finally the revolutions opened doors for spiritual anarchism, on elite level too eg. from some reason teutonic tribes were not satisfied quite easily with freemasonry in the end, so they pushed for their own syncretic revival [1][1]

https://www.kerrybolton.com/communism-fermented-in-secret-societies/

yet in the french revolution something strange happened previous freemasonic deism shifted to atheism, and this set appart the enlightenment movement somehow in democrats and socialists, and here we can start to speculate that knowing that jesuits were behind the jacobines (see above posts) and knowing that they were holding most of the universities through continental europe thus controlling the humanistic vibe, or at least already knew that it couldnt be stopped mids the looming echoes of the industrial revolution, so its not at all strange to assume that vatican (the south european clicque) coined conspiracy against freemasonry in this way i.e. by introducing strict secularism to be reverted the strive of freemasonry to become somehow dominant religion in europe , but that would mean northern clique have paralyzed all royal courts thus such desparate move, what is debatable, also there is open critique from present day jesuit that suggests the french revolution was illuminati work, hm maybe it was counter-propaganda pamphlet [1]

http://www.midnightfreemasons.org/2012/08/the-masonic-philosophy-of-george_29.html [1]

it could be argued that in this vatican was loosing too, but anyway vatican was already on knees in different ways, so like this at least in europe freemasonry will not succeed to become dominant somehow, as I said I am speculating! if we see on other hand how british socialists in face of fabians are leveled easily its question whether indeed this is not true!? just remind yourself that also defacto lenin was freemason and defacto was financed by them (search info in previous posts) so it could be said that freemasonic answer to this vatican conspiracy would be introduction of new idealism like marxism with extreme form of atheism even naturalism per-se wasnt pardoned! now maybe I am too quick with this kind of reasoning, knowing that still Lady Liberty was on top of the french revolution, yet if we see how day after (by any price) napoleon marched towards all europe its somehow strangely obvious that infiltrated jesuits were instigating like this revenge, and when he failed in Russia they were banned by Alexander I too [1] huh this is indeed enlightenment revisionistic theory of mine, and it would be my pleasure to welcome anyone for any thought!

eventually we can say19 century europe was more idealistic along the first industrial revolution, while usA more pragmatic along the second industrial revolution, thus more and more capital was rushing across the pond and as result western imperialism as freemasonic strive becoming more and more american job ...
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By Odiseizam
#15153188
noemon wrote:The same is true for Roman education which was always secular, widespread at elementary level and focused on the Greco-Roman Classics & the 7 Liberal Arts & Sciences which is what the Freemasons worship


    I'll object this easily, there was no per-se secular education in Byzant, but more like filtered poetry and philosophy [1] although because it was word not for theocracy but diarchy [2] surely some teachers were more secular, yet have in mind that most educated persons in Byzant were theologians and monks ... also, Your point about 7 art and sciences is out of sync, hm, education in byzantium wasnt at all standardized in that manner, but more like free form in most of the country [2] where probably state didnt pay for teachers but that was job for the local Priest, and just on the emperors university there was more secular and payed teaching but with 3 prime subjects (rhetoric, philosophy and law) so by no means was as in roman world [2][2] tho we cant make such assumption like east and west had have same educational system, at best that would be wrong analogy > although once byzantine emperors start to flirt with western realm more deeply maybe things got more similar in this respect, dont know I am not expert in the field, but definitely on aristocratic and intelectual level byzantines started to impose own trends in west eg. typical art and fashion i.e. byzantine renaissance, while in same time they opened themselves as elite to western influences, and when this has reached widespread level [3] Byzant lost its Grace and have fallen, which could be easily noticed by the acceptance of western heraldry codex i.e. when The Cross as symbol was substituted with the familiar emblem of palaiologos dynasty the twoheaded eagle [4]

then You say freemasons worship the liberal arts and sciences, true they as humanistic reflex rests on the "enlightened" antiquity cults and reasoning, but definitely they are opposite to Christianity, just take look at Christian Virtues [1] and compare their neopagan credo [1][1] this simply is the enlightenment era i.e. revoking of the ancient fallen wisdom, and as such was glued to the humanism in the european universities which also followed the same pattern thus in the secular education we are conditioned to the freemasonic neopagan ideals, and this has nothing to do with Byzant in what ever respect!

    I'll suggest explanation of the symbolism in "modern" universities so we can see how deep this goes as western neopagan standardization, maybe its not dominant everywhere but it became almost trend through the centuries in secular universities, and ask yourself how secular is this!
    not that this is heresy but implies masonic humanistic domination in the "secular" education eg. see the square academic hats [1][1] altho there is excuse how it is renaissance recidiv, indeed the european neopgan vibe bursted exactly then! also its not denied by masons as their symbolism [2] but in freemasonry more present through its tassel [2] then grasp the symbolism of torches [3][3] must say in the first third footnote there is wrong interpretation of the word Alumni which altho masonic its meaning is not derived from illuminati, instead it is anagram of Alma Mater > "Alumni meant the sons of an alma mater of a college" [4] "Our diploma will, we feel, find us worthy sons of an Alma Mater that has furnished both hemispheres of our continent with Alumni" [4] used again and again in neopagan context [5] and actually is word for magna-matter or isis repacked in new cellophane [6][6][6] what to say than plain demonology in european education, which sadly it was standardized by vatican 1545 on the council of trent [7][7] which as can be seen from this last footnote explains neatly that the north clique and its popes were neopagans per-se, eh what a clean linking through the proposed "teutton vs julian" franciscan monk theory ...

now in comparison to this we can assume that York was freemasonic throne [1] logically New York its post, good explanation for the "statue of liberty" too! also it would be wrong not to pinpoint excatly who was the pope that aligned with the north clique so we would be clear that he was more humanistic than theologically prone, its word about Paul 3-rd [1][1] educated among humanists in Pisa one of the european alchemists nests [2][2][2][3][3] vatican was on mercy of italian noble clans that were already with neopagan vibe in renaissance, its ridiculous how normal was back then for some aristocrat overnight to become pope as in case of Paul III [4]




________________________________________________________________________






when one will see how cults meme were changing mids the french revolution, its obvious that there was dichotomy in the matchbox, and this points to struggle between freemasons and jesuit jacobines!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason

~

also Voltaire was educated by jesuits [1][1] this also aligns with his atheism

~

another good read would be that prometheus was mythic roll model to marx and lenin [1][1] what also positions hen with freemasonry too!

~

there could be searched and found many similar parallels regarding my conclusions above, but I am not even bothered with this conspi realm, coz even with out these facts I was aware that the Western Imperialism is neopagan tho disguise as secular so most of the Christian would not be aware what happened to them and actually where they live! from this perspective really gettin in local or global politics and living in the western realm is stupidity if one dont have the big picture always in front of him, at least like that wouldnt waste extra time on pushing some change that is not aligned with freemasonry!
Last edited by Odiseizam on 27 Jan 2021 19:00, edited 2 times in total.
#15153202
I'll object this easily, there was no per-se secular education in Byzant, but more like filtered poetry and philosophy [1] although because it was word not for theocracy but diarchy [2] surely some teachers were more secular, yet have in mind that most educated persons in Byzant were theologians and monks ... also, Your point about 7 art and sciences is out of sync, hm, education in byzantium wasnt at all standardized in that manner, but more like free form in most of the country [2] where probably state didnt pay for teachers but that was job for the local Priest, and just on the emperors university there was more secular and payed teaching but with 3 prime subjects (rhetoric, philosophy and law) so by no means was as in roman world [2][2] tho we cant make such assumption like east and west had have same educational system, at best that would be wrong analogy > although once byzantine emperors start to flirt with western realm more deeply maybe things got more similar in this respect, dont know I am not expert in the field, but definitely on aristocratic and intelectual level byzantines started to impose own trends in west eg. typical art and fashion i.e. byzantine renaissance, while in same time they opened themselves as elite to western influences, and when this has reached widespread level [3] Byzant lost its Grace and have fallen, which could be easily noticed by the acceptance of western heraldry codex i.e. when The Cross as symbol was substituted with the familiar emblem of palaiologos dynasty the twoheaded eagle [4]


Please do not pass your ignorance for fact.

The Educational System of the Byzantine Empire
Byzantium’s surprisingly advanced educational system

The educational system of the Byzantine Empire was in large part that inherited from the Hellenistic/Roman past. During primary schooling, students were initiated in reading and writing while secondary schooling deepened their knowledge. Higher education was to be found in large cities only and from the middle Byzantine period onward almost exclusively in Constantinople and with the initiative of Emperors or high ranking officials.
Despite some initial difficulties in synthesizing the Christian religion with the Pagan literature of antiquity, the Church accepted that the study of the intellectual tradition of the ancient world was to its benefit. Gregory of Nazianzos and Basil of Great both recommended the study of classics to Christians and pointed how their legacy was beneficial to Christian readers too.

Higher Education was always a matter of individual choice and not something mandated by the state. Schools were private and parents who wanted their children to receive a good (or even average) education had to pay tuition fees (misthos or siteresion). Fees were determined by the teacher’s reputation and learning. Fees were somewhat high and there are known cases where there were legal challenges about fees owed. In the middle Byzantine period an official named prokathemenos ton pedaiuterion supervised those private schools.

Although the number of pupils is not knowN, they must have represented a small, elite proportion of the young generation. The number of highly cultivated people was small. On the other hand, elementary education was far more widespread. Wealthy women in Byzantium could get educated at home but also in schools for girls. Michael Psellos’ daughter Styliane might have went to such a school as the philosopher makes reference to her ‘fellow schoolgirls’. There was no established schedule for when children would go to schools or specific dates for starting/ending the lessons.

The primary education was known as propaideia (beginning at 6–8 yo and lasting 3 -4 years) and the schoolteacher was known as paidagogos, paidotribes, paidodidaskalos or grammatistes. Secondary education was known as enkyklios paideia (beginning at 12–14 yo and lasting at least 4 years). Responsible for this education was the grammatikos/maistor while pupils were taught by ekkritoi tes scholes (‘prefects’). The grammatikoi monitored the general progress of pupils and supervised the ekkritoi. Primary education was usually conducted in courtyards of monasteries or churches (as many of the teachers were from the clergy) while secondary education was conducted in buildings in the city center.

Primary education focused on reading, writing and arithmetic. Pupils would write exercises on schedaria (wooden tablets) or ostraca using stylus. The Psalter was the key textbook. The secondary education included the trivium of grammar, philosophy and rhetoric and the quadrivium of music, arithmetic, astronomy and geometry( 7 Liberal Arts & Sciences).

Principal textbooks were the Iliad and nine tragedies: Persians, Prometheus Bound, and Seven Against Thebes by Aischylos, Ajax, Electra and Oedipus the King by Sophokles, and Hecuba, Orestes, and Phoenician Women by Euripides. Three comedies from Aristophanes (The Frogs, Wealth and The Clouds) and Pindar, Theokritos, Demosthenes, Aischines, Xenophon, Psalms of David and poems of Gregory Nazianzos were also part of the curriculum.


Regarding grammar, the Cannons of George Choiroboskos and Theodosios of Alexandria and the Techne Grammatike (Art of Grammar) of Dionysios Thrax were popular. Rhetoric was also important, with pupils having to compose small texts on themes drawn from ancient Greece (usually mythology). Mathematics were usually taught along with astronomy. Mathematical epigrams by Metrodoros (6th century), texts by Nikomachos of Gerasa (1st — 2nd century AD) and Euclid were the basis of mathematical education. With regards to music, ancient musical theory consisted in studying the mathematical ratios that represented musical intervals, and that study of harmonic ratios was extended to cosmology. The Byzantines continued with this tradition.

Astronomy was much cultivated by the Byzantines. Byzantine astronomy can be divided into two strands; the Ptolemean tradition and the adoption of various foreign astronomical tables (Arabic, Persian, Latin and Jewish). The Ptolemaic tradition was based on his work Almagest and on Theon of Alexandria, whose commentaries on Ptolemy were widely used. Theon’s book was, according to the author, ‘astronomy for dummies’ and with its clear explanations and examples allowed anyone to use Ptolemy’s tables without having to understand the difficult geometrical grounds of Ptolemy’s astronomy. The eleventh century was the most important for Byzantine astronomy. Aside from books based on the Ptolemaic tradition, one can find good knowledge of Islamic astronomy. In 1062, a Byzantine astrolabe was created for a man of Persian origins. The destruction brought upon by the Fourth Crusade caused a rapture in that scientific advance and the Islamic works disappeared from Byzantium until the late thirteenth century, when Constantinople had been recovered. Among the renewers of Ptoleamic astronomy in that new period was Theodore Metochites with his enormous work Astronomike Stoicheiosis (Astronomic Elements). Nikephoros Gregoras, pupil of Metochites, was able to use Ptolemaic astronomical tables to predict solar and lunar eclipses. Barlaam of Calabria was also skilled in astronomy and able to calculate the solar eclipses of 1333 and 1337. During this period, Persian astronomy was introduced in Byzantium.

Bonds could develop between students and teachers and pupils sometimes brought gifts to their teachers such as food (honey, fish, wine, etch). Teachers could also help their students after finishing school, helping them take positions in the Byzantine bureaucracy. Byzantium had a large administrative machinery that had to be staffed by educated men: in this regard, it somewhat resembled the dynastic empires of China. It is by no accident that the most important literati/scholars of Byzantium also were career bureaucrats.

The state did sometimes intervene in attempts to impose control on higher education. Theodosius II in 425 founded the Pandidakterion, which was meant to help equip young men with the knowledge necessary to enter the Byzantine bureaucracy. It had 31 professors, most of whom taught Latin and Greek. Higher education schools also existed in Berytus, Athens, Antioch, Alexandria and other major cities. Later on, in 855, Caesar Bardas established a higher school at Magnaura.
Constantine VII in the tenth century supported a series of schools: he himself was an accomplished scholar, among his works being De Ceremoniis (“On Ceremonies” — Περί τῆς Βασιλείου Τάξεως), describing court ceremonies, De Administrando Imperio (“On the Administration of the Empire” — Προς τον ίδιον υιόν Ρωμανόν), giving political advice to his son Romanos and Vita Basilii (“Life of Basil” — Βίος Βασιλείου), a biography of the founder of the Macedonian Dynasty, Basil I. He was a passionate collector of books and manuscripts.

Emperor Constantine IX (reigned 1042–1055) established two higher education schools, the Didaskaleion ton Nomon (legal school), under John Xiphilinos, and the School of Philosophy under Michael Psellus. Under the Komnenian Dynasty (1081–1185), higher education was reorganized by the central government. A Patriarchal Academy was established with series for rhetoric, philosophy, theology, and Scripture, with twelve teachers appointed by the Patriarch. After 1204, it was the Church that provided infrastructure for higher education.
#15153206
Odiseizam wrote:Your math is like renaissance for my mind, Please educate me more :D


Byzantine Education wrote:The secondary education included the trivium of grammar, philosophy and rhetoric and the quadrivium of music, arithmetic, astronomy and geometry(7 Liberal Arts & Sciences)


The trivium and the quadrivium make up the 7 Liberal Arts & Sciences

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_education

That was the primary and secondary education in the Roman Empire and then copy/pasted during the medieval times by other European countries. The best schools in the world(Eton, Oundle, etcetera) still follow the same educational curriculum that since ancient Athens has not changed much.


Encyclopedia Britannica-Byzantine Education wrote:Stages of education

There were three stages of education. The basic skills of reading and writing were taught by the elementary-school master, or grammatistes, whose pupils generally ranged from 6 or 7 to 10 years of age. The secondary-school master, or grammatikos, supervised the study and appreciation of Classical literature and of literary Greek—from which the spoken Greek of everyday life differed more and more in the course of time—and Latin (until the 6th century). His pupils ranged in age from 10 to 15 or 16. Next, the rhetorician, or rhētor, taught pupils how to express themselves with clarity, elegance, and persuasiveness, in imitation of Classical models. Speaking style was deemed more important than content or original thinking. An optional fourth stage was provided by the teacher of philosophy, who introduced pupils to some of the topics of ancient philosophy, often by reading and discussing works of Plato or Aristotle. Rhetoric and philosophy formed the main content of higher education.

Elementary education was widely available throughout most of the empire’s existence, not only in towns but occasionally in the countryside as well. Literacy was therefore much more widespread than in western Europe, at least until the 12th century. Secondary education was confined to the larger cities. Pupils desiring higher education almost always had to go to Constantinople, which became the cultural centre of the empire after the loss to the Muslim Arabs of Syria, Palestine, and Egypt in the 7th century. Monasteries sometimes had schools in which young novices were educated, but they did not teach lay pupils. Girls did not normally attend schools, but the daughters of the upper classes were often educated by private tutors. Many women were literate, and some—such as the hymnographer Kasia (9th century) and the historian-princess Anna Comnena (1083–c. 1153)—were recognized as writers of distinction.


Elementary education
Elementary-school pupils were taught to read and write individual letters first, then syllables, and finally short texts, often passages from the Psalms. They probably also learned simple arithmetic at this stage. Teachers had a humble social status and depended on the fees paid by parents for their livelihood. They usually held classes in their own homes or on church porches but were sometimes employed as private tutors by wealthy households. They had no assistants and used no textbooks. Teaching methods emphasized memorization and copying exercises, reinforced by rewards and punishments.

Secondary education
The secondary-school teacher taught the grammar and vocabulary of Classical and ecclesiastical Greek literature from the Hellenistic and Roman periods and explained the elements of Classical mythology and history that were necessary for the study of a limited selection of ancient Greek texts, mainly poetry, beginning with Homer. The most commonly used textbook was the brief grammar by Dionysius Thrax; numerous and repetitive later commentaries on the book were also frequently used. From the 9th century on, these books were sometimes supplemented with the Canons of Theognostos, a collection of brief rules of orthography and grammar. The grammatikos might also make use of anonymous texts dating from late antiquity, which offered word-by-word grammatical explanations of Homer’s Iliad, or of similar texts on the Psalms by Georgius Choiroboscos (early 9th century). Pupils would not normally possess copies of these textbooks, since handwritten books were very expensive, but would learn the rules by rote from their teacher’s dictation. Beginning in the 11th century, much use was made in secondary education of schedē (literally, “sketches” or “improvisations”), short prose texts that often ended in a few lines of verse. These were specially written by a teacher to illustrate points of grammar or style. From the early 14th century on, much use was also made of erotemata, systematic collections of questions and answers on grammar that the pupil learned by heart.


Secondary schools often had more than one teacher, and the older pupils were often expected to help teach their juniors. Schools of this kind had little institutional continuity, however. The most lasting schools were those conducted in churches.
#15153208
can I give up? how so they are seven in Byzant? not that back then edu standardization was norm, but You brought that argument! I'll wont argue on this topic any more, I just quoted Your line so I would drop the masonic alumni moment in the thread, thats why small font was used for the rest ...

now tell me why You changed the thread name from Western Imperialism to this general Esotericism, Mysticism & Conspiracy, is it not enough that the subforum is Conspiracy? what You have done is simply censorship, I respect that You are Admin, but it makes my stay on this e-forum unwelcomed, if so I'll leave, hope You'll change Your mind!?
#15153209
Odiseizam wrote:can I give up? how so they are seven in Byzant? not that back then edu standardization was norm, but You brought that argument! I'll wont argue on this topic any more, I just quoted Your line so I would drop the masonic alumni moment in the thread, thats why small font was used for the rest ...


You misquoted you mean, and it's funny that you would think your misquoting to be an argument.

Byzantine Education wrote: wrote:
The secondary education included the trivium of grammar, philosophy and rhetoric and the quadrivium of music, arithmetic, astronomy and geometry(7 Liberal Arts & Sciences)


now tell me why You changed the thread name from Western Imperialism to this general Esotericism, Mysticism & Conspiracy, is it not enough that the subforum is Conspiracy? what You have done is simply censorship, I respect that You are Admin, but it makes my stay on this e-forum unwelcomed, if so I'll leave, hope You'll change Your mind!?


Because that is what it is.

It is barely intelligible low-quality conspiracy theory.
#15153213
noemon wrote:It is barely intelligible low-quality conspiracy theory.


prejudice can make You bald but not strong, have You disputed something from the presented logic, and if You can, my elaboration is mostly mosaic reasoning, and its matter of taste how those footnoted links are arranged to fell in my understanding of the western neopagan imperialism!

along the Alumni post, here is nice read that can forward further the picture, in which could be found different useful points also [1][1]

https://www.conspiracyarchive.com/2015/07/11/temple-of-man-freemasonry-civil-religion-and-education/
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