[Politics_Observer]

@Igor Antunov

If you take up arms against your own government, then your government will have open season on you. That's how it works anywhere you go. It's no exception here in the United States. Edward Snowden was no whistle blower but a traitor to his country. If you steal state secrets from your own government then that makes you a traitor. Especially when you flee to an adversary country like Putin's Russia where he can obtain those secrets from Snowden to use against the country that Snowden owed loyalty to.

But everybody knows my position on Snowden and there is no need to rehash that. Any government that had an Edward Snowden on their hands would regard him as a traitor. Even Putin regards Snowden as a traitor but he is useful to Putin. But Putin himself wouldn't tolerate a Russian sort of Snowden, stealing Russian state secrets and then fleeing to the U.S. with those states secrets. We would have course granted asylum to such a Russian traitor because they would be useful to us and it's how the game is played. Putin is just playing that game and is not doing it for any sort of altruistic reasons.

[Igor Antunov]

@Igor Antunov

If you take up arms against your own government, then your government will have open season on you. That's how it works anywhere you go. It's no exception here in the United States. Edward Snowden was no whistle blower but a traitor to his country. If you steal state secrets from your own government then that makes you a traitor. Especially when you flee to an adversary country like Putin's Russia where he can obtain those secrets from Snowden to use against the country that Snowden owed loyalty to.

But everybody knows my position on Snowden and there is no need to rehash that. Any government that had an Edward Snowden on their hands would regard him as a traitor. Even Putin regards Snowden as a traitor but he is useful to Putin. But Putin himself wouldn't tolerate a Russian sort of Snowden, stealing Russian state secrets and then fleeing to the U.S. with those states secrets. We would have course granted asylum to such a Russian traitor because they would be useful to us and it's how the game is played. Putin is just playing that game and is not doing it for any sort of altruistic reasons.

Agreed on all fronts. Navalny is a color revolution puppet. Traitors of the people either ruin the country (See western run ukraine) get asylum with the enemy, or they get the rope.

[noemon]

This would be like Donald Trump poisoning Bernie Sanders and then arresting him when he arrived back in the US.

Putin is a human piece of feces.

That's all there is to it.

[Unthinking Majority]

Politicians should earn more, much more. Due to their relative small wages, they are prone to corruption.

Singapore - a city state - they earn 1,2 Million. 200 Milion for a Russian president should be ok and an American president shoudl earn 1 Billion per year.

[Unthinking Majority]

@noemon , all this shows that we have become very alien to you, even though your ancestors in the Christian centuries would have understood much better. So again, it's best to not speak of it than to say too much. Except I'll ''say'' this;

The Russians are making all the same mistakes they did in the 1930's: cheer their own dictator strongman and ally with fascists. A mistake that cost them 26 million dead Soviets in WWII. The Russian people should stick a knife in the neck of Putin and ally with the West in order to defeat these Chinese fascist monsters.

Unfortunately Russia is even closer geographically and politically to China than they were to Nazi Germany. China will not hesitate to stick a knife in Russia's back as Hitler did.

Even if you agreed with me you probably wouldn't say because Putin would come and poison you.

[B0ycey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55876033

Western media really do push a narrative. Thousands protest for Navalry. Wake me up when its millions.

[Patrickov]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55876033

Western media really do push a narrative. Thousands protest for Navalry. Wake me up when its millions.

To be fair, even if it is tens of million dying in gas chambers because of this the West will not turn an eye.

It only matters when Putin nukes them, but by then they only have God to complain to.

The same case applies for Xi Jinping. Worse, the "tens" in my sentence will be changed into "hundreds".

[B0ycey]

To be fair, even if it is tens of million dying in gas chambers because of this the West will not turn an eye.

To be fair to myself, my point wasn't in regards to Navalny who perhaps should be realised from prison. But the Western media for making a small molehill into a major news item. Putin has large support in Russia and the notion Navalny has enough support to do anything about that is Western idiocracy. We had the same idiocracy with Maduro and Luskashenko who remain in power. I suppose I have no issue with the article in reality but when thousands become millions, that is when this is newsworthy.

[Rancid]

Question, what would a Russia under Navalny ideals look like?

[annatar1914]

Question, what would a Russia under Navalny ideals look like?

@Rancid ;

Destroyed. He would resume and complete the ruin begun by Yeltsin decades before.

Which is why he is supported by Western Elites.

[B0ycey]

Question, what would a Russia under Navalny ideals look like?

Probably the same. But he isn't Putin, so is endorsed by the West.. although not vocally. Nonetheless he is historically a Nationalist and pretty right wing meaning he isn't much different to your standard cuck. But I suspect the West would like to think he will be a proxy given their support for him, especially saving his life should be get into power - which he won't.

[Rugoz]

@Rancid ;

Destroyed. He would resume and complete the ruin begun by Yeltsin decades before.

Which is why he is supported by Western Elites.

Putin more or less continued what Yeltsin started. In fact one of the first things he did was to introduce a flat tax of 13%* and to reduce the corporate tax rate from 35% to 24%. Ultimately he benefited from the natural recovery of the economy and the commodity boom, which he used to solidify his power instead of creating something sustainable.

*that's neoliberal nightmare territory right there, no Western politician would dare to implement a flat tax let alone one as low as 13%.

[noemon]

To be fair to myself, my point wasn't in regards to Navalny who perhaps should be realised from prison. But the Western media for making a small molehill into a major news item. Putin has large support in Russia and the notion Navalny has enough support to do anything about that is Western idiocracy. We had the same idiocracy with Maduro and Luskashenko who remain in power. I suppose I have no issue with the article in reality but when thousands become millions, that is when this is newsworthy.

Your point is nonsense and totally inexcusable.

It's brazen nihilism with no other purpose than supporting Putin.

Putin imprisons the opposition, let's blame "western media", Putin poisons the opposition let's blame "western media", Russian people brave the chilly weather, Covid-19, the KGB and Putin's security apparatus, let's blame "western media".

Why are you blaming "western media"?

Fuck knows.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


After which point exactly do people or the media need to take permission to report on Putin's activities? After he is parading his enemies heads outside the Kremlin perhaps?

[B0ycey]

Your point is nonsense and totally inexcusable.

My point is this isn't going anywhere and that was it. If in a months time we are still discussing this then I stand corrected. I don't support Putin. But at the same time I am not going to serperate him to say Bin Salman, a Western proxy with a much worse human rights record who also will have minor protests against him that won't go anywhere and that ironically never make the news. My general opinion is that all movements can only progress by internal public opinion and in Russia, regardless what the West wish were true, he is overall supported by Russians. Patching up Navalry and sending him back doesn't mean much but Western wishful thinking. And what is more bizzare, his record isn't any better than Putins. So whilst we continue this charade to try and see if we can somehow overturn Russian oligarchy by doing what Russians do to us by creating propaganda for a political endgame, I will just point it out when I read it and laugh.

[noemon]

The only charade here is that all these major Russian problems are somehow “western media”.


This is some low class propaganda to argue.

When your neighbor kills and imprisons the opposition, that’s newsworthy.

When Russians brave the freezing cold, the pandemic and the KGB to protest that behaviour, that’s also news.

[B0ycey]

The only charade here is that all these major Russian problems are somehow “western media”.

It was a minor protest. The BBC would have been informed prior so they could report it by those who organised it who then have blown this story up for propaganda purposes as it is the Western narrative and as that is what the organisers would have wanted. I don't want to appear to say that Navalry shouldn't be released or whatnot but at the same time I am not going to say Russia is the bad guy. They like all superpowers do ethically bad things for national interested. And Navalry is clearly on a trump charge. But he was largely allowed to do what he wanted and say what he wanted but must have overstepped the mark with Belarus. And now Putin has had enough. Is that using his powers beyond what he should do? Sure. But is Russia the only country who has locked up political opponents? No. But for some reason this guy is special. And that is because the West wish he will succeed. He won't.

[noemon]

An opposition figure dragged through the courts, then poisoned and then imprisoned is far more “special” than those claiming he isn’t.

The fact that Russian people are braving the freezing cold, Covid 19 and the KGB for Navalny makes this person even more special.
Regardless what faceless and nameless trolls say on the internet.

Especially when they argue that somehow all this is not even newsworthy and that merely reporting it means being complicit to a conspiracy!!!

Wtf? You need some serious cheek to actually insist on such level of propaganda.

[B0ycey]

The fact that Russian people are braving the freezing cold, Covid 19 and the KGB for Navalny makes this person even more special.
Regardless what faceless and nameless trolls say on the internet.

Especially when they argue that somehow all this is not somehow newsworthy and that merely reporting it means being complicit to a conspiracy!!!

I haven't written on what I think of the protestors who are standing up for what they believe in. Brave naive hopeful wishful and probably many other adjectives after that. Or do you think this movement has momentum? Compare this to Yanukovych. Nor have I said it is a conspiracy. All I am saying is this "newsworthy" story wasn't spontaneous, was most definitely orchestrated, done for a purpose and isn't going anywhere. These protestors are the minority. Sure they are fighting for what they believe in. And I also think Navalny should be released. But Russia isn't a divided country. They mostly support Putin. So OK let the Western media play their games. Let them report these minor disputes. But I am not blind to what is going on. Which is why I usually ignore these threads. But today was a slow day and I had time to post so thought I would just this once for a change.

[noemon]

I haven't written on what I think of the protestors who are standing up for what they believe in. Brave naive hopeful wishful and probably many other adjectives after that. Or do you think this movement has momentum? Compare this to Yanukovych. Nor have I said it is a conspiracy. All I am saying is this "newsworthy" story wasn't spontaneous, was most definitely orchestrated, done for a purpose and isn't going anywhere. These protestors are the minority. Sure they are fighting for what they believe in. And I also think Navalny should be released. But Russia isn't a divided country. They mostly support Putin. So OK let the Western media play their games. Let them report these minor disputes. But I am not blind to what is going on. Which is why I usually ignore these threads. But today was a slow day and I had time to post so thought I would just this once for a change.

This movement has a lot more momentum and force majeure than the people against Yanukovych especially given the circumstances, .ie that we are in the middle of a winter pandemic and that this is Russia and not the Ukraine.

One can easily argue that there are better & more reasons to oust Putin than there were for Yanukovych.

[B0ycey]

One can easily argue that there are better & more reasons to oust Putin than there were for Yanokovych.

Perhaps, but Yanokovych lost the people of Kiev and the straw snapped when he pulled out of the EU agreement and took Russian cash. There isn't the same pull against Putin in regards to Navalrys imprisonment. In fact if anything it is getting weaker.