European federalism - Politics | PoFo

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By Odiseizam
1. why its needed?
2. how soon is now?
3. who would benefit from?


1. from the very beginning eU is imagined as usE united states of europe, but its not easy the european nation states to be drawn to complete hand over of their sovereignty, thus the first step was unionism, after followed monetary centralization and next is fiscal one, what after the greek fiasco and every next crisis its evident and imminent process, it is utterly needed step so european union would survive, tho not only one and maybe avoidable [1]

2. but as things are rolling now this could be done only through the consensual mechanism backed by veto possibility ... so first thing what eurobolsheviks would need to do is dismantling this vote principle and mount strict unvetoed majority vote in the european council [1] easier to say but hard to done maybe differently [1][1][1] eventually possible by the macrons proposal of Three Europe so the process of federalization will actually start somewhere soon, but this would be betrayal of the common policy goals ...

3. this is most needed step, already in big delay, so usE and usA will merge in one huge superstate that would be leader in the new world order that is for a while publicized by the western elites although as some motivational anecdote how things are going, yet 4 years ago there was transnational corporative agenda that would circumvent the political merging by economic one through the TTIP agreement but what was on halt after in power came Trump, as replacement was promoted eu-canadian ACTA, but now with Biden most probably things will unfrozen in this part, still there is scarcity of hope on the horizon after brexit risks [1] either eu will risk economic opening to usA and like that becoming additional burden on itself or brexit will pull them together in greater risks, so for now to me it looks like better scenario is to be introduced TTIP between usA and uK and then after merger with eU, but pride is what holds eU still together so there is chance it will risk without hesitation, after all it not depends only to her own choice but as usual is blackmailed by usA in different ways!
User avatar
By Odiseizam
Macron 3in1 proposal [1] two years ago (third would be associative members) rests on previous german one for "concentric circles with federal core" socalled eu6 [1] what a visionary a :) and its not so huge problem how is pushed but why there is no debate on all levels but everything goes quiet, here and there just some unfortunate echo [2] and thats all, hope this wouldnt lead to totalitarian usE superstate later [3][3] some few years ago I have ridiculed their vision about EU when I have intentionally leave in the video Europe [4][4] wanting to point that eu is not on the menu anymore, but as such it didnt pass the contest, maybe after all there is hope european nations to stay states instead becoming european stew, anyway maybe there is way out if is implemented mechanism like in ex-Yu republics [5] altho without clear will that could lead to chaos again [5] so Hope for the best but expect also the worst!
User avatar
By Odiseizam
and why the need of federal europe

1. political reasons ... its obvious there is predominantly will to be explained this process how it goes [1] or could stuck, but there is no hype WHY we need federalization and which risks are in front of the states, in the previous footnote there is good suggestion how federal europe could be rearanged on regional level, something that was already in place earlier as economic and cultular momentum, but its need federalization so it would went to administrative level, some say so it would be corrected the mistakes of the past and reconnect all the ethnically similar turfs, but in my opinion behind the scenes is deconstruction of current nationalism through economic regionalism, and indeed in next economic depression only this could help european countries to stay in peace and not tear apart any future federal europe! my logic could be seen at least as demystification of eventual 4. A NEW PARADIGM? 4.1 New concepts of regional policy, but must say knowing that there was long furbished agenda behind potential western nwo [1] its logic that points to the need of dismantling of nation states what were in my opinion just a phase in bigger nwo agenda which time has expired [1][1] so defacto stable denationalization is imminent ahead for any eventual federal europe could be at least secured from debacle from within!

2. economical reasons ... hm, one possible answer is coz looming economic risks, which if not managed through federalization can further weaken the european economy and together with the american dead-end that could lead to ww3 1][[1] although usA even without this can trigger ww3 because that would be last straw before went bankrupt and start nato aliance disintegration, all this normally boosted along the fanatic dreams [1] and indeed having no other turbo invested front like middle east, this could lead easily to big ww3 turmoil, unless balkan is again ignited [1] so it could be saved overindebted american economy that relays extra on war industry [1][1] there was anecdote they cant sleep peacefully coz 1/5 of usA population directly or indirectly depend from it, who knows maybe is true if tax expenditures are taken in account through which surely at least the poor 1/5 in usA would be neatly serviced ...

► Show Spoiler

so current western stability hypothetically depends from further western compactization on political and economic level i.e. consolidated federal fiscal europe and connected through TTIP with usA can ease the burden of both by new opportunities for indebting, but honestly if they want they could stabilize easily any risks without any federalization or liberal deals with Usa only through fast introduction of blockchain monetary policy, like that circumventing probably the 30% gray market in europe, but also opening room for digital balancing skims on macroeconomic level, eg. as was earlier libor in uk but on financial level, in my opinion even the clearing realm got already substitution in imf's CBDC [1][1] an financial transnational western "distributed ledger" [1][1] as seen this is not going smooth above then how would go smooth bellow, but europe is cornered now even more with brexit financial risks (link in the first post) on top of that covid-19 pressure, so as logical option either digital money will substitute euro as quickly as possible [1] or eu will return soon to its first snake inception [1] the question is how soon eu could be ready for such stunt if its not federalized, without such centralization even less that to be imposed on macroeconomic level!

on other hand The risks from such stunt would be e-society resembling e-logor, almost like those that wont be digitally independent could not exists with ease! is this cashless paranoia or just expectancy hype!? lets say this is just fear from possible totalitarian outcome at the end, and yes proper awareness for the risks can bring also proper risk-management, but that is possible only now when europe is unionistic, if it became federal any attempt even for pointing to any risk would be considered soft-terrorism and sanctioned by soft-logorization eg, less points for air travel :) laugh laugh but You have the blueprint! altho China is so old empire 5k years and more so she has some ontological right to experiment with herself coz cultural conservancy, but europe to be conserved like this it would be cultural heresy that would lead as to monocultural braindamage to current diversity so as to risks of neopgan nwo!

User avatar
By Odiseizam
I'll say Ursula is ready for take-off, she always was [1][1]

but federalization dont depends only from her good will we would need to see what will happen west and western of eU in this year ahead covid-19 risks [1] anyway the mild hysteria is probably predetermined! as always all crisis are managed in such way so they would deliver some part of the nwo agenda! now as ea-elites already announced its time for Reset [1] and this probably means things will go fast forward!

11.12.2012 -

I do understand brexiters, UK for sure in federal europe would be just hole in the european golf turf, but in case of the current small european states there is no other exit but at least regionalization by ethnic affiliation, so at least like that they would survive any future risks of world economic depression, I would not guess like others do whether there is still room for eu federalization, but will accept that federal europe as centralized will look exactly like german superstate, simply as largest economy she definitely will dominate europe!
User avatar
By Odiseizam
its obvious that the british nationalists succeed in changing the popular impression about eU as joy of the world, mostly achieved by bashing propaganda against its future inevitable federalization, so brexit became reality, some will ask - were “conspiracy theories” responsible? in my humble opinion just fear from centralization, as some have even etiquette it like future Bureaucratic Socialist State, many throwing pejoratives like eurobolsheviks or eurovogons [1][1] etc. etc. But all this is unfair because if euroep anyhow crumble in economic chaos whole world will follow! simply NOW they (eu-bureaucrats) dont have bad intentions with their federalist agenda, they are trying to stop any potential fiasco after brexit, although its questionable whether or not all euro-crisis are predetermined in such way so they would open quickly door for federalization!?

anyway what is more articulate measure now is introducing fiscal union instead federal state! at least like this any fear from eurobolshevism would disappear!?

    Thus, the discussion about the perspective of closer fiscal integration in Europe should start from a functional analysis aimed at identifying those policy areas and public goods where the centralization of competences and resources could either offer increasing returns to scale or help address cross-border externalities. 

    While building a complete list of tasks which could be centralized is beyond the agenda of this analysis, we can mention some policy areas where a transfer of competences and resources to the European level offers potential benefits. Financial market regulations and supervision, pan-European deposit insurance and crisis resolution mechanisms in the case of bank failures seem to be the number one candidates in the sphere of economic policy. And such an integration has obvious fiscal consequences in terms of the greater centralization of public resources at the European level.

    Interestingly, the idea of a banking union” has broad support in the context of the debate on strengthening the Eurozone institutional architecture and is seen as an important measure to save the common currency (see e.g. Aizenman, 2013; European Commission, 2012). However, in our opinion, its main rationale relates to completing the single market of financial services, which will face a continuous danger of fragmentation and renationalization (especially in a time of financial distress) as long as regulatory and supervisory power and crisis resolution resources remain in national hands. For this reason, the “banking union” should not be limited to EMU members (the biggest EU financial center, the City of London, is located outside the Eurozone) and should not necessarily engage the European Central Bank (ECB) whose jurisdiction is limited to the EMU. 

but how is this possible without complete centralization of the legal system, how should be quickly thus effectively rewarded or punished the members when they wouldnt implement some policy!? again even if there is debate somewhere inside the european corridors, still we as public are not aware of it, and only what we get is european agitprop, which sometimes simply buries itself in live'sand how is promoted!


    “It would … contribute in an eminent degree to an orderly, stable and satisfactory arrangement of the (union’s) finances.” So spoke Alexander Hamilton, US treasury secretary 1790 as he urged America’s founding states to join together in fiscal union. A European fiscal union, with proper institutions would be able to provide joined-up management of the EU economy as a whole
User avatar
By Odiseizam
the next statemt although not factual, suggests that somehow everything stink on planned agenda when we can compare these analysis [1] and the next cia projection [1] altho due to covid-19 the analysis from the first footnote should be recalculated seriously, and this opens another momentum where eU could push even as unionistic for greater trade deal with China becoming bridge between usA and China what will be from benefit to all, but eauroatlantic determinists are scarred this to be done solely on scientific level ehat about investment [1][1] just imagine if China could invest easily in european market eg. buying off the Rotterdam Port, but even Israel is not so independent [2] what about eU, so federalization is must do must have, but for this we would need at least controlled economic crush so such process would be instant, but in case of covid-19 risks that would mean debacle, now really depends on many puzzles in the mosaic, for many of them I have pushing in the last year info-analysis [3] but it would be wrong to say this or that would be case, just know that it wouldnt be easy, maybe quickly even europe will introduce Social Credit System [4] how else to curb with eventual economic crush and possible dystopian future!?
User avatar
By Odiseizam
because its obvious that (managed or natural) bad economic tsunami will rip apart the global financial system (sooner or later) I will digress regard the projection of the cia strategist and say what eU needs ahead more than federalism is massive social program for rural reemigration through "social" Agrarianism ...

    That is what’s going to happen: Demand for food will rise at least 35% percent by 2030 while demand for water will soar 40%. [1]

yes til now rural funds are large, but corrupt local couriers have demotivated many europeans to transfer from city to village life, and in my opinion whats utmost needed so it would be put in place selfsufficient food management in every country is introduction of two crucial social reforms < 1. social co-op's with free communal machinery rings for rural reeimgrant till they grow up and 2. land'reform that will give locally advantage to small farms instead the current corporative misuse of arable land [1][1] and maybe bigger efforts for 3. modern local agricultural machinery factories so the machinery rings would be services easily ... if this dont become case even the last hope for normal life would be lost because as in usA plutocracy will top more and more [1][1] and for normal europeans only way out would be to migrate later in Russia as once americans were doing the same in wake of economic crisis migrating in Canada [1]

simplified this reasoning would sound like rural reemigration it should be even today exit from poverty for many, even more later if european or global economic crisis is looming, but for that there is no Risk-Management in place, nor there is will ideas plans and agendas in this respect to roll out from the european universities if not politic parties! now, is it too late for such reforms, hm, maybe in Germany or France, but example in Balkans that could be easily managed!!!
User avatar
By Odiseizam

    now we should all look on the bright side, what could go wrong except less free space for maneuver by the current Too Big To Fail eu players!

Noam Chomsky on TTIP ... what is not mentioned as risk, is the fact that the transnational corporations will meddle in local political affairs i.e. that is not prevented anyhow!

    Oh, TTIP? They’re pretty extreme. In fact Greenpeace, a couple of days ago, released 280 pages of internal documents on this so-called trade agreement and they spell out details of what all of us should know.

    The so-called free trade agreements are not free trade agreements. In fact to a large extent they’re not even trade agreements. These are investor right agreements. There’s a reason why they’re kept secret from the public and as soon as you look them you see why. Notice I say secret from the public, not secret. They’re not kept secret, they’re not secret to the corporate lawyers and lobbyists who are writing the detailed regulations. Of course in the interests of their constituents, doesn’t happen to be the public of the world or their own countries.

    So these are highly protectionist for the benefit of private power, so-called intellectual property rights, effectively raise tariffs. They’re called patents but which have an enormous impact on economies. Great, wonderful for pharmaceutical and media court conglomerates and others. Investors, corporations are given the right to sue governments, something you and I can’t do but a corporation can, to sue governments for harming their future, potentially future profits. You can figure out what that means and such cases already in the courts – they’re not in the courts they go to private trade adjudication groups made up largely of corporate representatives. They’re already going on with NAFTA and we can expect more of them. There are provisions that undermine efforts at regulation including incidentally, regulation of environmental dangers and rather strikingly the phrase “Climate Change” does not appear in these 280 pages, which are illustrative of the whole structure.

    So they have almost no, I should say that these agreements, so-called Pacific and Atlantic have virtually no effect on tariffs. Tariffs are already quite low among the major trading partners. When you read the propaganda about it, it says “oh yeah sure, Vietnam is going to have to lower its tariffs.” Yeah, almost no effect on trade. The major trading partners already have agreements that have reduced the terrorists very substantially. There are few exceptions, not many. So these are basically – we should disabuse our self of the illusion that these are free trade agreements, anything but. And to a large extent not even trade agreements. We have the experience of others like NAFTA, many years of experience.

    So take say NAFTA, it has all of the aspects that I just described but even more. Consider even what is called trade. Interactions across the US-Mexico border, they’ve increased substantially since NAFTA. So economists will tell you trade is greatly increased but have a look at them. So for example, suppose that General Motors produces parts in Indiana, sends them to Mexico for assembly and sells the car in Los Angeles. That’s call trade in both directions, but it’s not. Its interactions internal to a command economy. It’s as if during the days of the Soviet Union, parts were made, say in Leningrad, sent to Warsaw for assembly and sold in Moscow. We wouldn’t call that trade. That’s interactions internal to a command economy.
User avatar
By Odiseizam
"certainly TTIP is big deal" for the western economies, but is this now already too late thing!? on other hand there is no substitution despite the risks, now we need just to seat and wait to see what will happen and when usA and eU will make it, how soon is now does anybody knows!?

now is very soon if You are alcoholic :)

On the other hand, with the transatlantic free trade agreement TTIP, he pushed the interdependence of the world economy and the dismantling of trade restrictions and thus a core principle of the “New World Order”.
User avatar
By Odiseizam
Keiser Report: Secrets of TTIP & TPP (E905) ~ Apr 23, 2016

Max and Stacy discuss that if man is what he hides, as André Malraux said, then the EU is a corporatist, monopolist loving intellectual land-grabber, for the EU hides secret trade deals. They also discuss Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan instructing his coalition not to ‘forcibly’ proceed with ratifying the TPP (another secret trade deal) until after elections this summer as voters are against it. In the second half, Max interviews independent Irish politician and MEP, Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan, about the top secret TTIP, the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership.
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By Odiseizam
@Unthinking Majority indeed it is, neoliberalism is just regulated (read insured) feudalism, in modern terms its Corporatism [1] but unlike fascists is not always imposed in centralized manner, but way more loosen I'll say defined good as Tory Corporatism [1] but now instead landlord there is board of directors on the top [1]

    now this said TTIP will loosen any social-democratic mindset in eU, and later along federalization that will lead to plutocracy as is now in usA [1][1]-[2][2]-[3][3][3] what eventually when will be opposed by the traditional national vibe regionally in europe will lead to technocratic dictatorship like in nowadays China, it would be too-big-to-fail system that most probably will suspend the democratic meritocracy and introduce technocratic meritocracy which in the end will instantly awaken the eugenic nwo dreams ! now is all this planned to go like that hm there are conspi fears that is [1] but would it end like that hm that is hard to predict, simply there are too many variables in the nwo equation so any paranoia at best is just good lost time, instead there is need for weighing all the risks and opportunities mids the current and future circumstances and like that defining what option is more useful, I was arguing with ChrisC that even socialism is probable as western vibe but only mids deluge risk management scenario [1]

think what is most important at the moment, is europeans to debate and measure all the current risks from introducing TTIP and day after federalism [1][1] along the risks of stiff centralization of power in the european commission ! its not painful its not impossible its nightmare for the elites do, but as citizens at least on ngo level it should be challenge such crucial politics so people would loosen their fears and in time start to acclimatize in particular need for change and/or eventual imposed change ! going around rioting because frustrations or anger wont solve anything, instead there should be engaged constant debate on every level, in these e-times logically on thematic e-forums instead fakebook or twitter, intellectuals should should compact their independent forces so they can analyze and rationalize whats happening and why this or that is needed, eh if only that was wide spread institutional clime at least on academic level in universities [1]
User avatar
By Odiseizam
    Atlantis wrote:@Odiseizam, TTIP was dead before Trump. That has nothing to do with Trump. TTIP had no chance of ratification in the EU because of the US demand for private litigation courts and lower environmental and food standards. For the US there is no point in signing a deal if it can't sell its food products.

no it wasnt dead at all!

    Biden has other fish to fry. A comprehensive trade deal is not high on his agenda. Therefore, TTIP will not be revived in its previous or in any other form.

hm, probably You are not aware that this is only way out for the us-stock-market to grow? not that I am ok with it i.e. making bananarama from the european union, but seen realistically if there is no such deal that would mean stalled growth instead progressive one! now things has loosen bit after Trump, but banc'corp elites long time ago have cornered the politicians, now is time just for pushup pushpull tension and eU will find strength for compromise! brexit also helps on this behalf as risk that additionally is hanging over european financial neck! altho eu is trying to escape the trap after things got chilled in the previous us-pChair rotation [1] yet JoeB dont think so [2] and eventually will happen what happened with the canadian CETA, isds wil not die for sure [3][3] and as time goes by, think transnational corporations will make it happen, whether called TTIP or something else!

In CETA, the parties have sought to prevent problems surrounding a possible uneven impact ofexception clauses by creating a unified exceptions chapter (largely based on the wording of Article XXGATT) covering the whole agreement142. This is an example well worth considering in the framework of TTIP negotiations [1]
User avatar
By Odiseizam
indeed Trump broke it, would Biden glue it, anyway definitely as deal was settled, and definitely usA has no better way of postponing its economic fiasco than indulging in this kind of economic expansion!

may 2016 ~

the way how was briefing the us side back then its obvious there was will for compromise [1][1] and as I can see the hype is still on [1]

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