Is USA a Plutocracy? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
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By ckaihatsu
#15158336
Rancid wrote:
:lol: ok bro.... :lol:

Maybe I'm a closeted Trumpster or something. :lol:



It's good to hash these things out....


Rancid wrote:
When I said "Trumpism" that was basically a pseudonym for "Trump supporters". Trump supporters are anti-establishment. They are against the current plutocrat ruling class. Trumpism, is made up by the supporters themselves, not Trump. Trumpism cannot exist without supporters.

Trump himself, is just an opportunist, as you say. He's just playing the Trump supporters for his personal gain.



So if 'Trumpism' applies to Trump supporters, what are *their* aims, besides being lemmings for Trump?

What kind of political vision would *they* have realized, if Trump's coup had succeeded?
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By Rancid
#15158339
ckaihatsu wrote:So if 'Trumpism' applies to Trump supporters, what are *their* aims, besides being lemmings for Trump?

What kind of political vision would *they* have realized, if Trump's coup had succeeded?


I wouldn't know. They themselves probably do not know either. They just know that they are angry, and want to lash out at everything that scares them. What makes it especially insidious is how they are willing to court racists, conspiracy theorists, and dumb people.
#15158359
ckaihatsu wrote:So if 'Trumpism' applies to Trump supporters, what are *their* aims, besides being lemmings for Trump?

What kind of political vision would *they* have realized, if Trump's coup had succeeded?

As Lacan said of the French students in May '68, they are slaves in search of a master. Or as Comrade Stalin said in a somewhat different context, "The people need a Tsar." The Trumpists want an Emperor, not just another President. Beyond that, I doubt they could agree with each other on anything much. But then, they don't have to: the Emperor would sort it all out....
By Rich
#15158363
Unthinking Majority wrote:The West used to be ruled by monarchs. The aristocrats stripped them of their power and took over. The Founding Fathers were not poor peasants, they were not slaves or housewives, they were the powerful white men and the educated elites and made a system that guaranteed equality while not undermining their interests, which wasn't equality at all. The Founding Fathers created a system in 1789 where the only people who could vote were land-owning white males, which at the time was 6% of the population.

A number of points.

Low population density increases prosperity, reduces inequality and encourages rapid technological, social and cultural development. We saw this in the aftermath of the Black Death and we saw it big time in North America. The northern states moved towards universal male suffrage quite rapidly and even the southern states were progressive compared to most of the world in terms of democracy and the expansion of suffrage.

Female suffrage came later, but still the United States was very much a leader in the introduction of female suffrage particularly compared to laggards like France and Switzerland. I'm no Conservative when it comes to women's position within society, in fact I seem to have sprung from the womb as a fully formed radical liberal on the issue, but the plain fact is that women's suffrage was a great non event. It was a secondary effect of changing social values and attitudes not the driver of them. These days women skew liberal and towards the left, but until a few decades ago women tended to skew conservative.

The Founding Fathers did not create a system in 1789, this is part of the founding myth or fantasy of America. The system of States came about not because of some ideological principle of the Founding Fathers, the founding Fathers wouldn't have known a moral principle if it had smashed them in the face, but due to the pre-existing power centres inherited from the Colonial period. The only reason there is a United States at all is because of the war of Independence. If the British had simply let the colonies secede, there would be no USA today and the make up of north and possibly South America would be very different.

Funnily enough I was thinking about this, this morning. The thing about fascism is that is its post democratic. It departs from a context where universal (at least male) adult suffrage is the baseline, has become the status quo so speak. Fascist ideologies are plebeian ideologies, unlike the pre democratic monarchical and aristocratic ideologies, so may be the Jim-Crow South should be thought of as the first fascist regime.
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By ckaihatsu
#15158424
Potemkin wrote:
As Lacan said of the French students in May '68, they are slaves in search of a master. Or as Comrade Stalin said in a somewhat different context, "The people need a Tsar." The Trumpists want an Emperor, not just another President. Beyond that, I doubt they could agree with each other on anything much. But then, they don't have to: the Emperor would sort it all out....



Here's a recent creation of mine that expresses the same dynamic, within the context of the left-right political spectrum:


3-Dimensional Axes of Social Reality

Spoiler: show
Image

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