Election 2024 Thread - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15158343
@blackjack21 , hello friend, in response to my comments about the timing of a possible Trump run in 2024, you said;

I'm inclined to agree. The issue for Trump in 2024 is age, but I imagine he would still be far more spry than Biden, who's effectively a zombie. The realignment is going to be a big deal. So to is the backlash against totalitarian government.


By hook or by crook... The Democrats won in 2020. Now they must at least pretend to administer the Federal government to a degree, and run on the results of that administration in 2024, with a significant number of the electorate already primed for revenge on a massive scale. As usual, their collectively barely concealed contempt for Non-Democrat voters and ignorance of the motivations of normal everyday people in general will be their downfall.
By B0ycey
#15158349
annatar1914 wrote:80 to 90 % of the GOP base would vote for Trump, the Neoconservative/Big Business War party wing of the other 10 to 20% are already migrating to the Democrats, while the blue collar Democrats and Independents are migrating to the GOP. This process will be completed by 2024 I am sure. That being said, Trump 4 years older would not be an issue for them after 4 years of a Democratic administration.


Ignoring all your conspiracy BS for one second, Trump couldn't even beat "Crooked Dementia Joe" to become a second term president and lost 11m votes to him. Then add on his lost some Republican support from the capitol riots. Then add on that he doesn't hold a majority support in the GOP. Then add on that he may run as an independent splitting the Republican vote in 2024 and then add on that if he wants to be the Republican nominee he may not win the primaries given how decisive he is, yes I am pretty confident that if Trump is a factor, then 2024 is a guarantee Democrat victory actually. But I don't think he will be a factor due to his age, and his rhetoric now is merely to fleece his rubes (I hope you're paying in Annatar). Or if he is a factor he will be behind his son. And also a lot can happen in four years in any case. He may well be in jail. He may well be bankrupt. Or he may well just leave politics altogether.
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By JohnRawls
#15158400
Rugoz wrote:Why is the GOP still participating in elections? The Dems stole it without even being in power. Game over man!


#15158430
@B0ycey , you said;

Ignoring all your conspiracy BS for one second,


Being dismissive right out the gate does not bode well for mutual comprehension.

Trump couldn't even beat "Crooked Dementia Joe" to become a second term president and lost 11m votes to him.


That's the funny thing; all the more reason to be doubtful of the 2020 outcome in the minds of many.

Then add on his lost some Republican support from the capitol riots



Let's be frank, most of those people weren't Trump supporters to begin with. He hasn't ''lost'' them therefore, not having ever gained the likes of Mitt Romney and the John McCains of the world.

. Then add on that he doesn't hold a majority support in the GOP.


Do you have a source on that? Because that's not what I'm seeing in polls of GOP voters.

Then add on that he may run as an independent splitting the Republican vote in 2024


If he has most GOP base voters, independents, and even some democrats, it wouldn't be a problem. The way the establishment is acting, they know this.


and then add on that if he wants to be the Republican nominee he may not win the primaries given how decisive he is


Even the aforementioned Mitt Romney has admitted that Trump would win the 2024 primaries.

, yes I am pretty confident that if Trump is a factor, then 2024 is a guarantee Democrat victory actually.


Well, that's your opinion, but I'm not going to lock myself into an opinion on victory for one side or the other just yet.


But I don't think he will be a factor due to his age, and his rhetoric now is merely to fleece his rubes (I hope you're paying in Annatar).


I'm a Socialist, I can always count on certain things. One is the arrogant dismissal by liberals of regular working class voters and their intelligence and motivations in voting for Conservative or Populist and Nationalist candidates.

Or if he is a factor he will be behind his son. And also a lot can happen in four years in any case. He may well be in jail. He may well be bankrupt. Or he may well just leave politics altogether.


I don't think that four years is ever going to illuminate certain people about the future aspirations of President Trump, much of what you say seems like little more than wishful thinking, and that's no substitute for a good strategy to eliminate him as a factor. Huey Long's proposals and ambitions forced FDR to role out a second wave of New Deal initiatives for working people during the Great Depression, and I think the Democrats are too stupid and beholden to Wall Street now to do that again.
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By Drlee
#15158443
We don't know. We could be in a full-on civil war by 2022. Trump is going down hard on any number of criminal and civil cases. He will not go easily. I think he will try to get folks shooting before that happens. And there is no doubt that he could do that.

Trump will not win the presidency in 2024. He is too old. It is far to early to pick a winner. The shooting hasn't even stopped yet.
#15158448
annatar1914 wrote:By hook or by crook... The Democrats won in 2020. Now they must at least pretend to administer the Federal government to a degree, and run on the results of that administration in 2024, with a significant number of the electorate already primed for revenge on a massive scale. As usual, their collectively barely concealed contempt for Non-Democrat voters and ignorance of the motivations of normal everyday people in general will be their downfall.

It could be, but there are a lot of people who believe the Democrats are the living embodiment of all that is good, and the Republicans are the living embodiment of all that is bad; and vice versa. I left party politics due to my disgust with the Republicans, but being independent has made it clear to me that some people cannot be swayed because their need to belong to a group is more powerful than any policy position.

In California, we are starting to see women getting tired of the Democrats, because they are the ones that deal with the children who aren't in school more than the fathers do. It takes a lot to get people to abandon a political party. It took John McCain working with Ted Kennedy and calling anyone who disagreed with McCain-Kennedy racist to finally get me to quit the party. I never went back, and never gave them a dime since and that was 14 years ago.

B0ycey wrote:Ignoring all your conspiracy BS for one second, Trump couldn't even beat "Crooked Dementia Joe" to become a second term president and lost 11m votes to him.

Oh, Trump beat him for sure. However, Trump was not able to stop the fraud. One of Trump's personal flaws--rarely talked about--is that he wants to be liked. So it never really occurred to him how deranged some of the people in Washington really are. The prize to control trillion dollar budgets is hugely significant. So the establishment is rife with dirty people. Trump is used to dirty people being mobsters, thugs, etc. He's not used to thugs in Brooks Brothers suits with Ivy League degrees. Organized crime isn't the Mafia. Organized crime is like the medical cartel. That's organized. In the UK, the government owns the health care industry. In the United States, the healthcare industry owns the government. In the United States, 90% of media outlets are controlled by just 6 multinational corporations.

B0ycey wrote:Then add on his lost some Republican support from the capitol riots.

Nil. More people watched Trump's farewell address than watched Biden's inauguration. Biden's inauguration video got ratioed too, so they took it down. More people went to greet Trump coming home to Florida than went to welcome Biden to the White House. Washington is a positively eerie place right now. I've never seen anything like it in my life. From the UK, I'm pretty sure you just don't get to see it. Like here, if you want to see the Gilets Jaunes demonstrations, you have to watch RT or a streaming news startup, because it's blacked out in the mainstream media in the United States.

B0ycey wrote:Then add on that he doesn't hold a majority support in the GOP.

He has much more than a majority. Liz Cheney has found that out the hard way.

B0ycey wrote: Then add on that he may run as an independent splitting the Republican vote in 2024 and then add on that if he wants to be the Republican nominee he may not win the primaries given how decisive he is, yes I am pretty confident that if Trump is a factor, then 2024 is a guarantee Democrat victory actually.

Trump added to his vote in the 2020 primaries too, even though he was running unopposed. Enthusiasm for him was quite high.

B0ycey wrote:Or if he is a factor he will be behind his son.

Or his daughter. Neither of them exhibit the message discipline of Trump Sr. though. People who come up with phrases like "Democrats are opening up the borders to illegal aliens while shutting down the schools" may be a bit trite, but they are on message. Trump took that stuff to a whole new level by ensuring that whatever he said it was in line with voter sentiments and politically incorrect.

Drlee wrote:We don't know. We could be in a full-on civil war by 2022.

If they are still destroying small businesses and ruining the lives of retail, entertainment and hospitality workers, I would think so. Almost everyone associated with rioting has financial problems. So as people's pandemic-related financial problems increase, I would expect civil unrest to increase too.

Drlee wrote:Trump is going down hard on any number of criminal and civil cases.

You've been saying that for four years now. It's starting to sound like global warming projections. Always doom, always imminent, all the experts agree, but it never happens.

Drlee wrote:Trump will not win the presidency in 2024. He is too old.

No older than Biden is now. Although, deep down, we all know that Biden didn't win, don't we? ;)
#15158451
@blackjack21 , in response to my comments you wrote;

It could be, but there are a lot of people who believe the Democrats are the living embodiment of all that is good, and the Republicans are the living embodiment of all that is bad; and vice versa. I left party politics due to my disgust with the Republicans, but being independent has made it clear to me that some people cannot be swayed because their need to belong to a group is more powerful than any policy position.


It's tribalism. And often tribalism works when it narrows down to the specific interests of the ''tribe'' in question. The past several decades in America has seen the elites deftly divide the lower classes (by means of the two-party duopoly catering to this tribalism) so that a pragmatic populism that is nationalistic, economically ''liberal'' and socially ''conservative'', would have great difficulty in seeing that kind of agenda passed.

In California, we are starting to see women getting tired of the Democrats, because they are the ones that deal with the children who aren't in school more than the fathers do. It takes a lot to get people to abandon a political party. It took John McCain working with Ted Kennedy and calling anyone who disagreed with McCain-Kennedy racist to finally get me to quit the party. I never went back, and never gave them a dime since and that was 14 years ago.


When I was young, my state was solidly Democrat on the local level, but since Nixon solidly voted GOP. Since then, the state is now solidly GOP on every level. It is also very poor and heavily economically and politically exploited. Taken for granted. Since my 20's, I have always voted third party, usually based on the issues of the moment.

For me the breaking moment with the GOP was the first Gulf War, on a personal level and for initially personal reasons.


Oh, Trump beat him for sure. However, Trump was not able to stop the fraud. One of Trump's personal flaws--rarely talked about--is that he wants to be liked. So it never really occurred to him how deranged some of the people in Washington really are. The prize to control trillion dollar budgets is hugely significant. So the establishment is rife with dirty people. Trump is used to dirty people being mobsters, thugs, etc. He's not used to thugs in Brooks Brothers suits with Ivy League degrees. Organized crime isn't the Mafia. Organized crime is like the medical cartel. That's organized. In the UK, the government owns the health care industry. In the United States, the healthcare industry owns the government. In the United States, 90% of media outlets are controlled by just 6 multinational corporations.


Nil. More people watched Trump's farewell address than watched Biden's inauguration. Biden's inauguration video got ratioed too, so they took it down. More people went to greet Trump coming home to Florida than went to welcome Biden to the White House. Washington is a positively eerie place right now. I've never seen anything like it in my life. From the UK, I'm pretty sure you just don't get to see it. Like here, if you want to see the Gilets Jaunes demonstrations, you have to watch RT or a streaming news startup, because it's blacked out in the mainstream media in the United States.


He has much more than a majority. Liz Cheney has found that out the hard way.


Trump added to his vote in the 2020 primaries too, even though he was running unopposed. Enthusiasm for him was quite high.


Or his daughter. Neither of them exhibit the message discipline of Trump Sr. though. People who come up with phrases like "Democrats are opening up the borders to illegal aliens while shutting down the schools" may be a bit trite, but they are on message. Trump took that stuff to a whole new level by ensuring that whatever he said it was in line with voter sentiments and politically incorrect.


If they are still destroying small businesses and ruining the lives of retail, entertainment and hospitality workers, I would think so. Almost everyone associated with rioting has financial problems. So as people's pandemic-related financial problems increase, I would expect civil unrest to increase too.


You've been saying that for four years now. It's starting to sound like global warming projections. Always doom, always imminent, all the experts agree, but it never happens.


No older than Biden is now. Although, deep down, we all know that Biden didn't win, don't we? ;)[/quote]
#15158456
Unthinking Majority wrote:Saw a poll that said Trump is polling at 54% among probable 2024 GOP candidates and nobody else is anywhere close to that. It's still Trump's party it seems.

If you adopt shitty populist policies for long enough, then sooner or later some shitty populist leader will come along and appropriate your party for his own personal use. And nobody will feel sorry for you. Lol.
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By Drlee
#15158485
No older than Biden is now. Although, deep down, we all know that Biden didn't win, don't we? ;)


Oh he won but only because the Mr. Pillow guy pissed off the voting machine company and they gave it to Biden to spite him. 8)

We can agree on one thing BJ. If somebody does not do something real for small business and by extension their employees, there is going to be the devil to pay and no pitch hot.

How ironic to think that it could be the restaurant owners/workers who take down the whole show.
By B0ycey
#15158489
@annatar1914

You fragmented the post which I hate. That is why I hate responding to Blackjack. So I will just rephrase my response without quotes. What I meant is Trump doesn't hold a GOP majority, which at the time was true but now it's over 50% so not true I guess. But that still doesnt detract my point. It still isn't good news for him due to another candidate not actually declaring they are running yet he still has only around 50% support which given that he is decisive will mean he will struggle to surpass that in a meanful manner. Nonetheless I never suggested that the Republican party was entirely against Trump in any case only that if he ran he would divide the party. That benefits the Demcocrats as I learnt from the UK general election in 2019. But saying that even McConnell who just gave Trump a vocal dress down said he would back Trump if he was the GOP candidate so although it will split, it won't be dramatic but perhaps that doesn't matter. Trump would still need to find an additional 11m votes from somewhere on top of what he loses from moderate Republicans and I don't see how he can get them from the undecided vote even in 2024.

Put it this way. Biden wasn't a great candidate. But he still wiped Trump ass last November. And no, you haven't provided any evidence of voters fraud, are too obtuse to accept rationale and perhaps not even worth anyone's time trying to convince you that perhaps the most logical reason Trump lost in November was because he was a bad president. So don't say Biden won due to vote rigging. He won because he wasn't Trump.
By Doug64
#15159985
My own prediction, Trump doesn't run in 2024--he'd almost certainly win the nomination if he did, but the chance is high that he'd lose the general election by too high a margin to pass off as stolen and there's no way he wants that on his record. More likely, he'll play kingmaker and kibitzer-in-chief. If I had to place a bet right now, it would be on Desantis to win both the nomination and the general election, but I wouldn't bet much. A lot can happen in four years.
#15159989
Doug64 wrote:My own prediction, Trump doesn't run in 2024--he'd almost certainly win the nomination if he did, but the chance is high that he'd lose the general election by too high a margin to pass off as stolen and there's no way he wants that on his record. More likely, he'll play kingmaker and kibitzer-in-chief. If I had to place a bet right now, it would be on Desantis to win both the nomination and the general election, but I wouldn't bet much. A lot can happen in four years.


If health allows it, Biden will be remembered as one of the best presidents to ever be the head of America. He got very lucky because of the situation he found the country and himself in. Simply unseating Trump and beating corona along with recovering the country will be enough. May be even the best president if he does something special also but that is undecided for now. He will mop the floor with any challenger if he runs.
By Doug64
#15159997
@JohnRawls, first, I don't expect Biden to last four years, so the Democratic nominee is almost certain to be Harris (there's no way the Democrats aren't going to go with their sitting "president"). And no, Biden isn't going to be known as one of our greatest presidents. The Wuhan virus? The Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed is why we have the vaccines as quickly as we do, and the economy's already recovering even before the Democrats managed to pass their massive Christmas gift boondoggle. The border? Already blowing up in the Administration's face and that isn't likely to change any time soon. Jobs? Practically Biden's first act was to destroy thousands of jobs, and he's doing what he can to destroy or prevent more. China? Iran? I doubt whatever he goes with there is going to compare favorably to Trump's record. Law and order? Like the rest of the hypocritical Democrats he doesn't seem to be able to recognize any political violence that isn't ostensibly from the Right, or support our law enforcement rather than pushing the "systemic racism" lie. Nope, the Biden/Harris administration is already cruising for another one-term failure.
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By JohnRawls
#15160001
Doug64 wrote:@JohnRawls, first, I don't expect Biden to last four years, so the Democratic nominee is almost certain to be Harris (there's no way the Democrats aren't going to go with their sitting "president"). And no, Biden isn't going to be known as one of our greatest presidents. The Wuhan virus? The Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed is why we have the vaccines as quickly as we do, and the economy's already recovering even before the Democrats managed to pass their massive Christmas gift boondoggle. The border? Already blowing up in the Administration's face and that isn't likely to change any time soon. Jobs? Practically Biden's first act was to destroy thousands of jobs, and he's doing what he can to destroy or prevent more. China? Iran? I doubt whatever he goes with there is going to compare favorably to Trump's record. Law and order? Like the rest of the hypocritical Democrats he doesn't seem to be able to recognize any political violence that isn't ostensibly from the Right, or support our law enforcement rather than pushing the "systemic racism" lie. Nope, the Biden/Harris administration is already cruising for another one-term failure.

Cool, but Biden will be the presiding head of the US state when US will beat the largest casualty wise crisis in its history and also he will preside over the economic recovery. I don't think that you understand well how this works and worked all through human history.
"Felicior Augusto, melior Traiano" is appropriate here.
By Doug64
#15160002
JohnRawls wrote:Cool, but Biden will be the presiding head of the US state when US will beat the largest casualty wise crisis in its history and also he will preside over the economic recovery. I don't think that you understand well how this works and worked all through human history.
"Felicior Augusto, melior Traiano" is appropriate here.

Biden will be considered the "president" that defeated the Wuhan virus the same way that Attlee and Truman are considered the prime minister and president that won WWII.
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