The War on Cuba Part I and II - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15167481
Tainari88 wrote:I don't hang around with Cubans with an agenda. I hang around with people from Cuba who live in Mexico and struggle to make end's meet.

These are the kinds of conversations I have with Cubans here:

Me: Tell me what you want to do with your life Kelsey?

Kelsey: I am thinking of moving to Spain with my boys. That Mexican lawyer took my whole life savings of $15,000 and left me with a son and debts. I work some pizzas caseras and chicken wings and I never finished college in Cuba. Here I got to work because my mother is sick. I need to make enough money to pay for a house and get a little car. But the wages here are so low. I need to go to the USA but my brother has been there for four years and all he can get is working two jobs. One for Uber and another one for delivering pizzas. After he pays the bills it is tough for him to save. He thinks if he learned more English and maybe studied for business school? It is tough leaving for the states. My uncle says the Spanish government is giving away some visas if you have kids and can prove you are in need of Spanish European Union work visas.

Me: Uh, Kelsey Spain is not cheap like Mexico. The pressure to make more money with kids is real. The Spaniards are fairly well educated and you will be competing for jobs with EU professionals who can do office work in various languages. Be realistic.

Kelsey: I need a higher salary! Mexico doesn't pay. When I first got here I was so excited. Stocked grocery stores and you can buy anything if you have the pesos for it. But now I see the problem is earning the pesos to buy all the things one loves to see in the stores and buying it for your loved ones? It is hard. It is not about the merchandise not being available it is about not making enough to buy it.

Me: That is capitalism in Latin America Kelsey. Your experience is not unique. What I think the answer for you is to cooperate among many to pool your resources and work on it together. 25 Cubans and some Mexicans, some Guatemalans but it must be about TRUST and respect. Pool the resources and work and build something together.

Kelsey: I trust you. How about you do it with us? Teach us English and how to attract foreign tourist dollars and then a bunch of little businesses.

Me: Hmmm. Why do I end up working when I just want to write and do translations?

Kelsey: You can't say no now. I need some English and can't pay. How about I do some service for you? The old fashioned barter system. Animate Chica!


Tranquility is not in my future @XogGyux you young ones with fine minds and full of energia juvenil. You need to be doing these things. ;)

BTW, the problem is people voting democratically but again, if it is messed with? It is problematic. Got to do the reasonable thing. Let the people decide without coercion many different models. Can't have corrupt government. People get sick of that very fast.


I wonder, what does Kelsey think about returning to cuba?
#15167490
jimjam wrote:I hardly consider myself "rich". I studied the capitalist game and avoided it's most dangerous traps: debt, consumerism , etc. I did mot so much "make" money as I avoided wasting money. I was born in NYC but consider myself a good Yankee.

Also I had the good luck to purchase a house on top of Munjoy Hill (with the Portland Observatory in my back yard) 34 years ago :)


These two guys sound like Bill and Hillary Clinton. They bite their lips as they show sympathy for the disenfranchised and then go back to their petit bourgeoisie life style.
#15167493
Julian658 wrote:These two guys sound like Bill and Hillary Clinton. They bite their lips as they show sympathy for the disenfranchised and then go back to their petit bourgeoisie life style.

Oh please spare me incesere lecture. The clintons are the same scum that the bushes, the same scum as mconell, the same scum lindsay gayman. Worse than this scum are the psychopath such as trump that many of you supported with love and care.
I rather have a scum that pretends to care, at least by pretending they are acknowledging that caring is important, that a psychopath such as trump that flat out gives the game away.
#15167497
XogGyux wrote:I wonder, what does Kelsey think about returning to cuba?


The problem is adaptation XogGyux. No one likes renting to Cubans in this city XogGyux. Many people (Kelsey is from Havana) because they are not used to paying high rents and producing an average of $8000 Mexican Pesos a month every month. The electricity is not that expensive for me--but for her? Expensive. About $60 USA dollars a month. Water is cheap about $4 dollars a month.

The Cubans find everything in Mexico too expensive for their salaries. They think moving to a nation that is developed and with good infrastructure it will solve their problems. They need a lot of guidance. They come from a system where they could actually live on something like $25 a month because the rent did not exist, the utilities (that are in disrepair) are not like Puerto Rico's. PR they charge more than in NYC in the USA dollar system for electricity that is always unreliable. Mexico does have reliable electricity but? For the salaries of $200 a month USA dollar and you pay $60 in keeping the lights on? Muy caro.

The pressure of rawhide capitalism Mexican style is a challenge. For them and for the Mexicans too.

It doesn't move things forward. The USA loves paying Mexican skilled labor very low wages. The Chinese pay better in the PRC than the Mexicans get paid in Mexico. For factory jobs in both nations? The Mexicans make lower wages.

It doesn't work @XogGyux . It also won't work thinking the USA can take all of Cuba in and find them high paying jobs. That is a lie as well XogGyux. My solution is dealing with the causes of corruption in all of our nations. The people and groups and organizations that are actively keeping wages abysmally low and dealing with that exploitation. But that is being a LEFTIST. A dirty word.

But if it means progress? That is what I am.

I don't think many young Cubans even know how to cope with credit, borrowing in American banks, avoiding scams and schemes and dealing with producing a lot of money in capitalist nations with some intelligence. Many take out student loans and they are stuck in debt forever. I ran across a lot of them. They assumed all the specialized education would be free. It rarely is in the USA. And the free spots in Mexico? For the best and brightest. It is competitive. That is reality. Not fiction. About capitalism too.

What you accomplished @XogGyux it is not easy at all! Nada de facil.

I consider you a very very bright, and strong willed young man. Eres muy tenaz.
#15167501
XogGyux wrote:Oh please spare me incesere lecture. The clintons are the same scum that the bushes, the same scum as mconell, the same scum lindsay gayman. Worse than this scum are the psychopath such as trump that many of you supported with love and care.
I rather have a scum that pretends to care, at least by pretending they are acknowledging that caring is important, that a psychopath such as trump that flat out gives the game away.

I do not disagree! I my case scum Republicans do less harm than scum Democrats. For some people is the other way around.
#15167505
Julian658 wrote:These two guys sound like Bill and Hillary Clinton. They bite their lips as they show sympathy for the disenfranchised and then go back to their petit bourgeoisie life style.


Image

Here is jimjam in Red Square, Moscow working ,under the cover of Dan's Cycle Shop, with Kremlin leadership toward achieving a Worker's Paradise.
#15167538
jimjam wrote:
I hardly consider myself "rich". I studied the capitalist game and avoided it's most dangerous traps: debt, consumerism , etc. I did mot so much "make" money as I avoided wasting money. I was born in NYC but consider myself a good Yankee.

Also I had the good luck to purchase a house on top of Munjoy Hill (with the Portland Observatory in my back yard) 34 years ago :)



One of life's little ironies, at least here, most don't consider themselves rich. People with 9 figure incomes will call themselves middle class.

But they are.
#15167680
Tainari88 wrote:Cuba needs the embargo lifted.

Really? The excuse for the failure of communism in Cuba is a lack of trade with a capitalist country like the United States? That suggests a lack of belief in the socialist project, ultimately.

Tainari88 wrote:I want them to get the medications, I want them to get the best artificial limbs and the same variety of drugs for not much expensive costs as a Farmacia Similares in Mexico.

So why not just make them? Or are you saying that Adam Smith as right about specialization of labor? Or are you saying that David Ricardo was right about comparative advantage?

Tainari88 wrote:Without some blockade.

The US navy does not blockade Cuba. They are free to trade with nations that want to trade with them. I think the US needs to develop Cuba-style trade policies with China.

Tainari88 wrote:I think Cuba may be able to become an independent nation that won't have to be always thinking about avoiding the USA's need to control the Caribbean.

Cuba IS an independent nation.

Tainari88 wrote:Lift the embargo and allow Cubans to trade and for currency that is tradeable with other nations be opened and be done.

Nobody in the US is stopping Cuba from trading in Yuan or Euros or Pesos. Ultimately, you are saying Cuba's success depends on capitalist concepts like specialization of labor and trade for comparative advantage and conducting trade with the US dollar. Nothing prevents Cuba from creating a gold-backed currency, etc.

Tainari88 wrote:I don't think Cuba wants wealthy foreign tax dodgers buying up Cuban real estate on the cheap and eventually Cubans doing the same thing they do now when they can't have middle class medical career lives....leave to Florida like the Puerto Ricans do. Hundreds of thousands abandoning nations because the economy is awful is not a solution for Puerto Rico. It is not a solution for Cuba either.

So they want to live like the petit bourgeoisie? Isn't that greedy on their part?

Tainari88 wrote:Not scrambling to 'resolver como sea' in Cuba--or pay taxes and get paid shit while Crypto currency tax dodgers from California move in and buy everything up and don't give a fuck about the locals.

Do you notice that people seem to be avoiding the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do totalitarians who try to use the state's power to expropriate other people's property?

Tainari88 wrote:XogGyux I think the most important thing of all is to have a government that is not corrupt. That is held accountable and is transparent and its central purpose is to serve its citizens.

That's the appeal of capitalism, though. Everyone prefers the bourgeois lifestyle to the proletarian lifestyle. So the future requires automation, technology, etc. to deliver it. Bureaucrats want that bourgeois lifestyle too, and capitalist or communist, they frequently use their power to that end while purporting to be serving the people.

Tainari88 wrote:The solution is to give freedom to both.

Ah but you say yourself that you are not a liberal. So why do they need "freedom"? Cuba isn't a US territory or operating under US law. They just don't get a free trade agreement with the US. Puerto Ricans tend not to vote for independence. We agree that they should be an independent country. Why do you think that will change Puerto Rico's ultimate fate. There are plenty of Caribbean countries that are independent and also have trade with the US. However, there aren't really any Caribbean countries that are intrinsically wealthy. There is an obvious lack of natural resources, and no critical economic system building some sort of Singapore on the Caribbean type thing.

XogGyux wrote:How else do you get to rule the country for 50 year if not corruption. You think in a democratically election, the same dude will continue to get elected over and over and over even though the country keeps sinking and sinking and sinking? You think Putin would be "democratically elected"?

Yes, or the mayor of Atlanta--142 years of rule by the Democrats.

XogGyux wrote:It would be even better if limits applied to house/senate and even court.

Indeed.

Tainari88 wrote:The constant influx won't stop XogGyux. The USA can't take billions of poor people from all over the world. Forever. Not in today's information age.

Biden is certainly trying. More people have died at the border since he took office than have died from the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, but we can see where their concerns really lie.

Tainari88 wrote:I don't approve of you smoking cigars.

@jimjam is just emulating his hero, Rush Limbaugh.

Tainari88 wrote:Letting young people be debt free and study work hard and on things they LOVE is the solution.

That's easy to do. The hard part is to stop believing so much in the power of educational degrees.

XogGyux wrote:ot only it is good TV and fairly accurate, but it also gives a glimpse of what it is to be a cogwheel in larger machinery in which the top does not care or give a fuck about reality (one of the things that alarmed the crap out of me during Trump's tenure by the way).

That's not at all unique to Trump's tenure. Much of the US establishment is hopelessly out of touch. We need more decentralized systems that both collaborate and compete.

Potemkin wrote:Two words, @XogGyux: 'Puerto' and 'Rico'.

The US had already invaded and occupied Cuba and then given Cuba its independence. The US never took sovereignty over Cuba as a conquered territory as it had with Puerto Rico. So you could substitute other words like 'Dominican' and 'Republic' or 'Trinidad' and 'Tobago' and realize more or less similar results.

Tainari88 wrote:The Hawaiian natives are a tiny percentage of the current population of Hawaii.

I thought you were all for immigration? Most of the population of Hawaii was economic migrants too. They just aren't all white, Hispanic, or Polynesian, but rather Asian--the largest ethnic plurality in Hawaii. Mazie Hirono or Tulsi Gabbard ring a bell? California isn't majority white either. Kamala Harris ring a bell? It's all about Corazon Tainari88. You need to open your heart and your borders, and not be all about this hierarchy of who was here first, who was here second, and so on. :lol: Tu eres muy dificil.

XogGyux wrote:But that 1 lie... that the democrats are going to bring a cuba, a venezuela brings forth emotions and irrational behavior.

There are many who want to. It's not a majority of Democrats yet, but there are serious troubles on the horizon. I live in California. It used to be a great place to live. It is run by Democrats, who have seriously mismanaged the state and played a very cynical game with illegal immigration, drugs, cap and trade, high taxes, etc. In Nashville, I felt like I could name the 10-15 homeless alcoholics and the two crazy people by the end of a week. In the San Francisco Bay Area, it's like a never ending tide of that sort of thing.

Tainari88 wrote:The USA can slip easily into despotism. That Trump man almost was successful staying in power and who knows how many secrets he is going to sell off to make money and power grow for his unethical self

Trump was an angel compared to what came before and after. Your personality dictates that you will be easily fooled by the warm and charming corrupt personality, but offended by brutal honesty. Trump was as boorish as we've seen since Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson ended up quitting for all practical purposes. However, Trump was not part of the deep state at all. He won in 2020, but the deep state engineered that election for Biden in what is perhaps the most cynical exercise I've ever seen. I just finished Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer's book Operation Dark Heart. What they did to ruin his career was penny ante compared to what they did to General Flynn, and what they did to Trump. Did you know that they had identified Mohammed Atta almost 2 years before 9/11 with Able Danger? Probably not. The deep state is chock full of some really bad people, and you will never stop until you can do a much better job of evaluating politicians on what they do and their deep ties rather than their personality quirks. Shaffer started under Clinton and served through Bush an Obama. They were all bad actors with respect to 9/11 and many other things. To think anyone was afraid of Trump becoming a dictator and not seeing a behind-the-scenes cabal running things for decades. There's your dictatorship, and it doesn't even seem to phase you.
#15167685
blackjack21 wrote:There are many who want to. It's not a majority of Democrats yet, but there are serious troubles on the horizon. I live in California. It used to be a great place to live. It is run by Democrats, who have seriously mismanaged the state and played a very cynical game with illegal immigration, drugs, cap and trade, high taxes, etc. In Nashville, I felt like I could name the 10-15 homeless alcoholics and the two crazy people by the end of a week. In the San Francisco Bay Area, it's like a never ending tide of that sort of thing.

I don't buy it. Only a tiny percentage of people have a favorable enough view to consider that as a good idea. Of that proportion, I suspect the vast majority are just talking out of their assess due to ignorance and if their purposed "hopes" started to materialize they would shy again from the nonsense. After all, the education received by US about neighboring nations including Cuba is fucking pathetic. If you stop 10 random people on the street and ask them where is Cuba I would not be surprised that 5 of them don't have a clue.
The solution to this kind of "radicalism" that you are afraid, is not marginalization, it is education.

The US had already invaded and occupied Cuba and then given Cuba its independence. The US never took sovereignty over Cuba as a conquered territory as it had with Puerto Rico. So you could substitute other words like 'Dominican' and 'Republic' or 'Trinidad' and 'Tobago' and realize more or less similar results.

That is only half true. The US was happy to throw a wrench into Cuba's politics (not unlike it has done in so many other countries). Ironically, the US helped Fidel rise to power... yes that is correct! The first embargos to cuba were not under Fidel's goverment but earlier during Batista's and it was aimed to stop arms sales to the goverment. Meanwhile there are reports that the CIA actually helped the rebels with fundings (yes, the same CIA that latter tried to dethrown/assessinate Fidel :lol: ). Cuban rebels were not a "communist" movement. In fact there were factions that defined themselves as anti-communist. Fidel himself proclaimed shortly after the revolution that he was no communist and the Che had said the same about Fidel prior. I am convinced the US forced his hand by forcing him to become cozy with the USSR.
Anyhow, this is all water under the bridge.
#15167704
blackjack21 wrote:
1) Really? The excuse for the failure of communism in Cuba is a lack of trade with a capitalist country like the United States? That suggests a lack of belief in the socialist project, ultimately.


2) So why not just make them? Or are you saying that Adam Smith as right about specialization of labor? Or are you saying that David Ricardo was right about comparative advantage?


3)The US navy does not blockade Cuba. They are free to trade with nations that want to trade with them. I think the US needs to develop Cuba-style trade policies with China.


4) Cuba IS an independent nation.


5) Nobody in the US is stopping Cuba from trading in Yuan or Euros or Pesos. Ultimately, you are saying Cuba's success depends on capitalist concepts like specialization of labor and trade for comparative advantage and conducting trade with the US dollar. Nothing prevents Cuba from creating a gold-backed currency, etc.


6) So they want to live like the petit bourgeoisie? Isn't that greedy on their part?


7) Do you notice that people seem to be avoiding the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do totalitarians who try to use the state's power to expropriate other people's property?


8) That's the appeal of capitalism, though.


9) So why do they need "freedom"?


10) Yes, or the mayor of Atlanta--142 years of rule by the Democrats.


11) Indeed.


12) Biden is certainly trying.


13) @jimjam is just emulating his hero, Rush Limbaugh.


14) That's easy to do. The hard part is to stop believing so much in the power of educational degrees.



15a) I live in California. It used to be a great place to live. It is run by Democrats, who have seriously mismanaged the state and played a very cynical game with illegal immigration, drugs, cap and trade, high taxes, etc.

15b) In Nashville, I felt like I could name the 10-15 homeless alcoholics and the two crazy people by the end of a week. In the San Francisco Bay Area, it's like a never ending tide of that sort of thing.


16) He won in 2020, but the deep state engineered that election for Biden in what is perhaps the most cynical exercise I've ever seen.



1) That's our failure for not using the best possible policy for that situation. We've let the corrupt Cubans in Miami buy our policy towards Cuba, and that is idiocy.

2) Neither. Health care policy is quite complicated, that leaves you out.

3) She is prob referring to the time when JFK blockaded Cuba, although I am not sure why.

4) We have a history of putting our boot on the neck of Latin countries that goes back to the 1800s. We have been slowly easing up, at least when there is a Dem president.

5) No, she was saying we ought to end the embargo, and sanctions, and whatever else we're doing. That was easy, if you knew something about the situation. Your economics is also goofball.

6) Not at all, a small country has to protect it's interests when they live next to an aggressive empire.

7) She's talking about reform. You just pretended she wasn't. SSDD...

8) No, that's the appeal of a well run government.

9) We settled that a couple hundred years ago. You might want to learn your own history, sport.

10) But only a small fraction as corrupt as the rest of the state. Ooops...

11) Term limits appeal to those that have never studied the problem. That would increase the influence of lobbyists. The problem is to decrease the influence of lobbyists. That's not hard to do, but you wouldn't want it. The first step would be to triple Congressional salaries. That would cost millions and save trillions (if part of a comprehensive reform package).

12) Lying is such a lazy way out.

13) His cigar habit predates Rush by a generation. You're writing fiction...

14) Republicans turned college loans into a form of torture.

15a) In the 1970s a referendum froze property taxes, that was you might call the original sin. It has so distorted state politics that there may well be no way to ever fix it.

15b) San Francisco is a special case. Looking at it as Left or Right is a mistake. The wealthy have the influence, and the people that are not wealthy suffer. It's like that in most every American city, but worse in San Fran.

16) Republican judges, including the Republican dominated Supreme Court, Republican election officials, and Republican security guys say you are a lying sack.

Let me summarize, when you are not lying, you're babbling.
#15167713
late wrote:Let me summarize, when you are not lying, you're babbling.

Have you noted that most people on the conservative side of the political spectrum do not use insulting remarks to make a point?
#15167746
@blackjack21 wrote:
Really? The excuse for the failure of communism in Cuba is a lack of trade with a capitalist country like the United States? That suggests a lack of belief in the socialist project, ultimately.


No, BJ, don't be misleading. Many economies that are healthy have to have a lot of trade. The sugar industry died and so did a lot of commodities that were the base of Caribbean slave economies of the past. No, because socialist projects do work. And survive bad economies as long as you let them grow without stifling. Puerto Rico is stifled economically and it is not under a system that is fair. It is about bankers being paid. Cuba does trade with other nations always. But with rules and restrictions. XogGyux doesn't like the system but he knows the blockade is not helping others in Cuba who need a way of making a living. If you count how many years of divestment or taking away what should have remained in the Caribbean islands in their own economies? Highly unfair and incredibly exploitative. Study the history of the region. Your theories are invalid Relampaguito. Again, study tiny countries and their histories. But you don't so you assume their is no hope with Big Brother. The problem is they keep interfering and doing things to impede progress. That is reality. You can deny it. But imperialism is very very damaging. You just want no socialism. I don't agree. Socialism is good. For working people most of all. But? You need freedom to trade, and freedom from restriction. It is not about politics for the USA. Because the PRC is supposedly Communist yet trade a lot and make a lot of profit. Mostly from state capitalism. Yet, the USA doesn't sanction them like they do Cuba. Why is that? Because they want to go back to the old relationship. The one in which they were calling the shots. Be consistent with ideology. You go and talk to the ones who keep pushing China as the one that has to conform to the USA. They got another strategy. I don't approve of nations that abuse their power. It is ultimately self-defeating. Again what is the future for Cuba and Puerto Rico? The USA went to war with Spain to meddle with Spain's old Colonies. The USA better own up to their responsibilities. Lol. Or they can just pack their bags and leave all the nations they have damaged economically and not trade with any of them. See how long that lasts with those greedy freaks in DC?


So why not just make them? Or are you saying that Adam Smith as right about specialization of labor? Or are you saying that David Ricardo was right about comparative advantage?

What are you talking about BJ. Marxists don't deny capitalist production. They deny the concentration of wealth. All of humanity grows economically together or should. When they are not trying to invade, dominate and steal each other's resources in the process (making the comparative advantage slide into the toilet). AKA Imperialismo.


The US navy does not blockade Cuba. They are free to trade with nations that want to trade with them. I think the US needs to develop Cuba-style trade policies with China.


You did not see the videos. Uh oh, you failed to see the videos. You would not have said what you said BJ if you saw the videos. No discussing unless you see the videos. They explain and give an example of the problems with the blockade.


Cuba IS an independent nation.


Yes, and they also have been under the longest economic blockade in the history of the world. Why? Fidel is dead. Raul is about to kick the bucket he is getting older. The young people want internet and jobs that are about being able to stay in Cuba. See the VIDEO. You did not see it. Why should there be no banking system allowed, no trade, no delivery of anything. Because Cuba is a bigger threat to the USA than the PRC. It is hypocrisy BJ. It reveals greed as the only thing driving political policy in DC. If that is true? No way is any of it going to go away. The reality is greed will corrupt the entire system of the USA. All of it. And someone or some other nation will fill in the gap. One who doesn't give a damn about semantics or denying some nation some bank loans because they are not spouting pro American stuff BJ.


Nobody in the US is stopping Cuba from trading in Yuan or Euros or Pesos. Ultimately, you are saying Cuba's success depends on capitalist concepts like specialization of labor and trade for comparative advantage and conducting trade with the US dollar. Nothing prevents Cuba from creating a gold-backed currency, etc.


Yes it does. See how being locked out of international banking (which I think sucks anyway) does have an affect. See the video. You have not seen it.

So they want to live like the petit bourgeoisie? Isn't that greedy on their part?


No, they don't want to live like the petit bourgeoisie. They want to live normal. Like having a fridge, a washer, paint to paint the walls with, and basic consumer goods. It is not asking for Gold T lifestyles like the Trumps. Most people don't want to live in abject poverty BJ. They want basics. I think people have a right to basics. Don't you?


Do you notice that people seem to be avoiding the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do totalitarians who try to use the state's power to expropriate other people's property?


The totalitarians are fakers of the worst sort. And they exist in both capitalism and socialism. It is called playing the game of whoever wins the elections and saying what people want to hear, but living without ethics. Like your Republican bullshit party does. Do I have to post all the Republicans who are into neoconservative stuff and backstab the nationalists? Because that is the kind of human behavior you think is exclusive to just one political philosophy. It is not. You find them in every political philosophy. Opportunistic and insincere.

That's the appeal of capitalism, though. Everyone prefers the bourgeois lifestyle to the proletarian lifestyle. So the future requires automation, technology, etc. to deliver it. Bureaucrats want that bourgeois lifestyle too, and capitalist or communist, they frequently use their power to that end while purporting to be serving the people.


That is true. But? Again what is the price? Facebook things and twitter cutting off the ones whom they deplatform? Who is going to be determining who controls technology for profit? And why and for what purposes? It is survival of the oligarchs of the industry.



@jimjam is just emulating his hero, Rush Limbaugh.

That's not at all unique to Trump's tenure. Much of the US establishment is hopelessly out of touch. We need more decentralized systems that both collaborate and compete.



What you need are no more sellout politicians. Good luck with that when GREED is rampant.

The US had already invaded and occupied Cuba and then given Cuba its independence. The US never took sovereignty over Cuba as a conquered territory as it had with Puerto Rico. So you could substitute other words like 'Dominican' and 'Republic' or 'Trinidad' and 'Tobago' and realize more or less similar results.


You are totally out of touch with these statements. Cuba was 'given' its independence? It was a very bloody war with Spain that was long and difficult. The history of the last of the colonies of Spain were not something you have studied BJ. You should. But again you don't pay attention to the history. The Phllipines were let loose in 1946. Find out why. I won't do it for you. Cuba was kept with interventionist policies for years. If the conditions were not ripe for revolution? The revolution never would have been successful on the 1st of January 1959. That is the reality of it. The Empires never give or ask permission BJ. They take and they are a force of damage mostly. For everyone. Whether it be Spain, France, England, Holland, Portugal, or the USA. The Empires are BAD NEWS.

I thought you were all for immigration? Most of the population of Hawaii was economic migrants too. They just aren't all white, Hispanic, or Polynesian, but rather Asian--the largest ethnic plurality in Hawaii. Mazie Hirono or Tulsi Gabbard ring a bell? California isn't majority white either. Kamala Harris ring a bell? It's all about Corazon Tainari88. You need to open your heart and your borders, and not be all about this hierarchy of who was here first, who was here second, and so on. :lol: Tu eres muy dificil.


The Caribbean is all about open borders and people from all over the world settling there. That is not the issue Senor Relampaguito. It is about economic freedom to be able to keep people in their home cultures and home nations and STABLE. Not having to go and seek asylum in the USA. Or aren't you interested in keeping immigration to a minimum in your country the USA? Yes or no? Lol. I thought you were a nationalist and did not want half the world going there with lousy educations? Or have you changed your tune lately? :D



There are many who want to. It's not a majority of Democrats yet, but there are serious troubles on the horizon. I live in California. It used to be a great place to live. It is run by Democrats, who have seriously mismanaged the state and played a very cynical game with illegal immigration, drugs, cap and trade, high taxes, etc. In Nashville, I felt like I could name the 10-15 homeless alcoholics and the two crazy people by the end of a week. In the San Francisco Bay Area, it's like a never ending tide of that sort of thing.


You love your liberal paradise BJ. Don't deny the convo we had about excrement outside of BART station or MUNI.


Trump was an angel compared to what came before and after. Your personality dictates that you will be easily fooled by the warm and charming corrupt personality, but offended by brutal honesty. Trump was as boorish as we've seen since Lyndon Johnson, and Johnson ended up quitting for all practical purposes. However, Trump was not part of the deep state at all. He won in 2020, but the deep state engineered that election for Biden in what is perhaps the most cynical exercise I've ever seen. I just finished Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer's book Operation Dark Heart. What they did to ruin his career was penny ante compared to what they did to General Flynn, and what they did to Trump. Did you know that they had identified Mohammed Atta almost 2 years before 9/11 with Able Danger? Probably not. The deep state is chock full of some really bad people, and you will never stop until you can do a much better job of evaluating politicians on what they do and their deep ties rather than their personality quirks. Shaffer started under Clinton and served through Bush an Obama. They were all bad actors with respect to 9/11 and many other things. To think anyone was afraid of Trump becoming a dictator and not seeing a behind-the-scenes cabal running things for decades. There's your dictatorship, and it doesn't even seem to phase you


I don't care about the inner workings of the dark dictatorship of a nation that runs an empire that keeps people fucked for life in economic terms. Who deny us our votes and our land. That is YOUR nation and your KARMA BJ. Not mine. All they do is persecute people who want a decent life for their own people living in tiny places who never pose a big threat to their way of life. But they must CONTROL it all or they can't live with themselves. When are they going to have enough money? Enough power? Enough dictating? Enough bombs thrown on innocent civilians? Enough death and cancer and war and GREED? When is it enough for them? You think Trump was an innocent man? That capitalist asshole from Atlantic City broke into politics because he was a showman who probably thought he did not have a shot at the White House but he thought he could at least revive his tired Apprentice program and then had to deal with the REAL job of a president and did not know what the hell he was doing and who he was pissing off. A fool. Who lost and had to go and leave it for some NEOLIBERAL establishment man with memory loss issues. It is your system BJ. I am not married to it. I am just trying to solve the problems of the PAWNS caught up in all that SHIT.

You really defend that degenerate man? Ave maria.
#15167769
Julian658 wrote:
Have you noted that most people on the conservative side of the political spectrum do not use insulting remarks to make a point?



Also not true.

For most of my life, the Right has been rude or worse.
#15167795
late wrote:Also not true.

For most of my life, the Right has been rude or worse.

Two wrongs do not make a right.
In any event I am talking about the posters on the forum.
You did a good job replying to BJ and then you called him a liar. I was disappointed.
#15167837
Julian658 wrote:
I was disappointed.



Your combination of ignorance and prevarication is a constant disappointment, and a perversion of political discourse.
#15167842
Image
What!! No bone spurs :eek:

When Raúl Castro announced last week that he was preparing to retire as Cuba’s top leader, he had a warning for a nation increasingly divided over the legacy of its Communist revolution: The choice at hand is continuity of the revolution’s ideals, or defeat. There is also a deep generational rift.

Many older Cubans remember the poverty and inequality they faced before the Castros, and remain loyal to the revolution despite decades of hardship. But younger generations, who grew up with the achievements of socialism, including access to education and health care, chafe at its limits. They are demanding less government control and more economic freedom.

While many Cubans are fiercely proud of their nation’s sovereignty, they have tired of watching the same revolution-era generals control nearly every aspect of their lives, from how much they earn to the food they eat.

“Lots of people still don’t feel represented because he didn’t manage to breach the gap between the government and the people,” Adilen Sardiñas, 28, said of Raúl Castro.

While Ms. Sardiñas expressed frustration with the slow pace of reforms, like many interviewed, she also blamed America for a decades-long embargo that has crippled Cuba’s economy and further embittered Cubans against the United States.

“We need a change, but I don’t know if we’ll be able to because we’ve got our neighbor, the U.S., stepping on our heels and closing doors everywhere,” she said.

Over the past few years, as the Trump administration imposed stringent sanctions on Cuba and the tourism industry was decimated by the pandemic, Cubans have seen their country’s economy plummet once again, with many waiting for hours in bread lines. The country’s lauded health care system is frayed. And the number of Cubans trying to leave the island is going up, though it is still far from the exoduses of the 1980s and 1990s.

Cuba has been dominated since 1959 by Fidel Castro's personality and not insignificant charisma. He survived numerous assassination attempts to reach the age of 90. The Castro brothers have, essentially, faded from the scene. There apparently has been little or no effort made to build a bridge connecting the Castro era to the youth and future. Watch closely for Cuba has entered a dangerous period of leadership vacuum and uncertainty. Big Brother to the north no longer has Fat Donald playing the Cuba card to his personal self aggrandizement and Biden seems to want to sidestep the situation for now.
#15167844
late wrote:Your combination of ignorance and prevarication is a constant disappointment, and a perversion of political discourse.


He is rather vapid and hardly profound. Try not to permit him to provoke you unless you are bored and need some entertainment. :)
#15167855
@jimjam I think the important thing to remember is what the problem is. A bad system. Inefficient and incompetent. Mexico has a lot of pharmacies and fine hospitals. But? The low wages is the big issue in Mexico. I have not met a Yucatecan that doesn't agree with me about their salaries being woefully inadequate.

The solution in my opinion is to have the youth....about @XogGyux age group and younger take over the decision making. The old guard has to step down in Cuba. It is highly unlikely the USA will militarily invade Cuba and impose a puppet dictator. As XogGyux is fond of saying? The optics would look bad.

There is no excuse for Cuba not to start also making its own factories for consumer goods, drugs that are easy to produce in large quantities.

Mexico has very close ties with Cuba and it is very near. Havana is super close to Merida and easy access to deliver Mexican goods, such as rice, beans, bread, meat, vegetables, etc. The issue is the USA might punish Cuba for trading in pesos. The USA is like a bank cartel. That is why Puerto Rico has a bank panel in charge of running the Puerto Rican economy.

The ones who want to control the market and control it all make life extremely difficult for little countries like Cuba and Puerto Rico.

I appreciate Cubans like @XogGyux because their generation are the ones facing the future and having to make good decisions for their own society.

He is going to be surprised. For decades I thought the independence movement was dying and not doing well. The youth would just leave to New York or Chicago or Orlando and that was that. No progress on fixing the internal problems due to the escape valve of the USA mainland job market. But that changed. It did. Many of the young wound up realizing the gig economy and bad jobs that never paid and not having their native land and culture was not worth it for them. They wanted a Puerto Rican life with Puerto Rican family and Puerto Rican futures. Not USA mainland futures. And they had to start thinking outside of the box of USA is going to solve our problems for us. They did not solve our problems. They did not commit to our society. They neglected almost everything. Restricted almost everything and made life WORSE. A lesson learned. What is the lesson? You got to fix your own internal issues in your society. You can't rely on people who are outsiders who just want a tax break and don't care about Puerto Rican society.

People ask me why I want to become a Mexican citizen? They ask me that here. My answer is simple. Because I am free to be involved and committed to a society I am a citizen of. The non-citizens are always outsiders. I loved the Mexicans too much to be an outsider until I die. I want to be part of the society forever. My son is growing up here.

I have never been too bothered by what nationality I was born under. For me Puerto Rico is my first family. My first society. I love that island. The USA-Puerto Rico relationship is complicated and abusive. Very abusive. Unhealthy.

If one has to live in Puerto Rico? The way I am about politics? I would be under surveillance and the boot of the government would come down on me. Hard. I know that. My parents got that treatment. No jobs to be had either. The only pro independence people with jobs are a very reduced amount because the island is corrupted by political parties who are majority parties with tremendous networks of political favors. The PNP pro-statehood crowd are never going to hire pro independence Puerto Ricans. They are dirty socialists and with five thousand college degrees, speak excellent English or are bourgeois. They are asskissers of colonial powers and seek cronyism and corrupt politics and sit on their asses about pressuring the USA to make them the 51st state. They lie to the public saying the USA congress is going to make them a state when the SCOTUS insular cases say in black and white legal print that the reason PR never became an incorporated territory on the road to statehood is because the congress, and government never intended it to become one. But they don't accept that. Living in denial instead of taking action for change. Not wanting to be wrong. Like XogGyux has mentioned about Cuba's stubborness in not admitting they made a mistake. That is very important. Admit failure and work on another option right away is the reasonable and logical thing to glean from failure. But none of these dumb ass governments do that!

Change is going to come. Because the old people who lived their lives and made their choices need to give up on their grip on local power. They need to change.

And if the American government has to come after me for wanting Puerto Rico to be an independent country free from all those manipulations and monopolization of trade with us and repressing our ability to trade with the rest of the world? It is going to backfire on them when they are as @blackjack21 a cabal of dictatorship who cynically manipulate and overturn the will of the average voter in the USA. With bullshit lobbyists and saying corporations are individuals the same as a small fry farmer. Liars. Let them go through Mexico to get a hold of my ass!

I want freedom for the PAWNS of Empires. Free the PAWNS from all these greedy people who think they own the world. That mentality has to go!
#15167857
late wrote:Your combination of ignorance and prevarication is a constant disappointment, and a perversion of political discourse.

You and your comrades (late, Godstud, Dr Lee, Taínar, Jim) tend to post in a very aggressive vituperative manner to avoid the discussion on an issue. OTOH, someone like POD is always respectful even if he is recalcitrant about his views. It is just an observation.
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