WILL DO RACISM FOR BEER, CASH
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wat0n wrote:@Doug64 that's not true, there was an attempt to storm Oregon's State Capitol 2-3 weeks before the attempts to do the same in DC.
I wonder what @Doug64 thinks about that kind of rhetoric.
Legal scholar Alan Dershowitz predicted Monday that Derek Chauvin's conviction would be overturned on appeal because of the unusual number of "outside influences" that potentially tainted the jury, which was unsequestered for the majority of the trial.
Chauvin was convicted Tuesday of murdering George Floyd last May. The jury reached a verdict more quickly than expected, declaring Chauvin guilty of second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter.
What did Dershowitz say?
Speaking on Newmax TV, Dershowitz declared that Chauvin's actions were "inexcusable morally," but called the verdict "very questionable," citing outside influences.
In fact, Dershowitz said the verdict "should be" overturned on appeal.
"The verdict is very questionable because of the outside influences from people like Al Sharpton and Maxine Waters. Their threats and intimidation and hanging the 'Sword of Damocles' over the jury — basically saying that if you don't convict on the murder charge, or all the charges, the cities will burn, the country will be destroyed — seeped into the jury room because the judge made a terrible mistake by not sequestering a jury," Dershowitz explained.
"I think it should be reversed on appeal," he predicted.
Despite the amount of attention Chauvin's trial received, the jury was only fully sequestered on Monday when closing arguments took place.
Because the jurors were not sequestered for the duration of the trial and were open to outside voices threatening protest violence, Dershowitz said it would be inconceivable to think the jurors were not consciously or subconsciously weighing the impact their decision would have on society.
"That should never, ever be allowed to seep into a jury room," Dershowitz said, adding that he has no confidence the verdict was "produced by due process and the rule of law."
What about an appeal?
Dershowitz predicted Chauvin's case will ultimately be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court, which he said would be Chauvin's best hope for a conviction reversal.
Citing Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) and Al Sharpton, Dershowitz said, "These folks took what they did right out of the playbook of the Deep South in the 1920s when prominent public officials would whoop up the crowds in front of the courthouse, demanding conviction of black people and acquittal of white people."
"The Supreme Court and other courts reversed convictions based on that because jurors should not be intimidated or influenced by what goes on outside the courtroom," he added.
Specifically, Dershowitz cited the infamous Sam Sheppard murder trial in the 1950s. Sheppard was convicted of murdering his wife, but was exonerated a decade later. The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately determined Sheppard was deprived of a fair trial because the jury was tainted by media attention that engulfed the case.
Dershowitz also said Judge Peter Cahill, the judge who presided over Chauvin's trial, supports his hypothesis.
On Monday, Cahill castigated Waters for urging protesters to "get more confrontational" if Chauvin was not found guilty. "You got to make sure that they know we mean business," Waters said.
Cahill said Waters' comments could be used by the defense in an appeal to argue for a mistrial.
"I will give you that Congresswoman Waters may have given you something on appeal that may result in this whole trial being overturned," Cahill said after denying the defense's motion for a mistrial over Waters' remarks.
"This goes back to what I've been saying from the beginning. I wish elected officials would stop talking about this case especially in a manner that is disrespectful to the rule of law, and to the judicial branch and our function," the judge added. "I think if they want to give their opinions they should do so in a respectful and in a manner that is consistent with their oath to the Constitution to respect a coequal branch of government."
"Their failure to do so is abhorrent!" he said.
Doug64 wrote:Are you claiming those were incitements to violence? Can you point to any Right-wing violence involving Supreme Court justices? I personally consider Trump's rhetoric to be extremely distasteful, it played a large part in my refusal to vote for him twice. That doesn't mean it was incitement to violence. But at a minimum, anyone supporting the Trump impeachment on those grounds have to explain why Maxine Waters' statements aren't the same, grounds for expulsion from the House.
SpecialOlympian wrote:If the police can't murder people in broad daylight then why would they even want to show up to their jobs in the first place? It's time they stood up to these radical Democrat antifa communazis.
colliric wrote:Your right on Police brutality, but Waters should be kicked out of the party for inciting people to get violent if they got "the wrong decision", since that would have resulted in bodily harm for innocent people getting assaulted by the mob, and the widespread destruction of property.Was Trump kicked out of the party? No. He was whole-heartedly supported by his party, which is why the impeachment failed.
colliric wrote:Police brutality should be fucken illegal and the use of aggressive Krav Maga concepts, moves and restraints should be outlawed outside of the military usage.QFT.
colliric wrote:They should teach cops Jeet Kune Do or Wing Chun instead, explicitly self-defensive martial arts styles.They shouldn't teach cops any martial arts. In order to use martial arts properly you need years of training. It's already been shown that cops are already under-trained. The cops would be better off being taught how to talk to people(social skills), and how to use the weapons and tools that they already possess.
colliric wrote:Your right on Police brutality, but Waters should be kicked out of the party for inciting people to get violent if they got "the wrong decision", since that would have resulted in bodily harm for innocent people getting assaulted by the mob, and the widespread destruction of property.
wat0n wrote:But it's an important reason. Grand juries are meant to be check against prosecutors trying to prosecute people for no good reasons, and also help to involve the broader community into the judicial process (for good or evil).
I wouldn't be so sure about that. The whole incident arose from a call alleging Floyd had paid with a fake bill and left, which did warrant some police action - meaning that a plain assault charge wouldn't really hold on its own. Then there were the claims about Floyd's state (also part of the call, alleging he was "drunk") and how that was the cause of death, which were discarded by the autopsy.
It may sound like nitpicking, but it's not because the police did show up as part of their legitimate functions whether one likes it or not.
Indeed, but they would be charged for assault before the autopsy would come up confirming Floyd died as a result of it. Then you would get the homicide charges up. A citizen would not generally have a right to arrest Floyd because citizens arrests are only legitimate if an actual crime had been committed - probable cause doesn't apply for regular people.
The autopsy results were necessary to establish Floyd died as a result of the restraint. The videos were necessary to understand the circumstances of the whole thing, and get cops themselves to acknowledge that Chauvin misused force.
I don't think the protests were as important for the outcome as you make them seem. All the available evidence (videos, autopsy reports, police testimony, medical testimony, etc) more than justified the verdict.
Pants-of-dog wrote:If you wish to say that the reasons I am correct are important, feel free.
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, these factors somehow mean that the recordings of Mr. Floyd’s killer murdering him in front of a crowd of cameras in broad daylight was not enough evidence to make an arrest?
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you are saying that because cops are special, it should be treated as completely normal when cops kill people in broad daylight 9n camera and are not arrested.
Pants-of-dog wrote:So yes, you are saying that cops can kill and not be arrested for it.
Pants-of-dog wrote:This is why protests are media attention are needed.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Just because a guilty verdict is justified does not mean that it does not require protests and media attention as well.
Loving all the Trump humpers here suddenly acting concerned about calls to violence because a black lady said to protest. Meanwhile, a senile orange rapist purposely pandered to a cult whose end vision is the mass murder of Democrats for years and I guess that was fine.
This is just the saddest and most disingenuous pearl clutching I've ever seen.
colliric wrote:I mean Biden as designated Cult Leader tried to sell Afghanistan as a victory, so let's pull out now, and your party is eating that lie right up. The ruling Republican party back in the day explicitly stated the aim was to absolutely destroy the Taliban, and that clearly did not happen. But I guess the Democrats won, even though America obviously lost??? Lol.
colliric wrote:The problem is cult leader Biden clearly sold it to his acolytes as a victory by explicitly stating "we(the USA) achieved our main objectives we set out to do", when people with good memories remember the main objective was to destroy the Taliban.
wat0n wrote:The decisions not to prosecute or allow indictments to proceed don't come from public bodies alone.
No need to repeat ad nauseam. You could perhaps say why is that not a good reason in this case.
No, what I'm saying is that since it's part of their job to use force, the mere use of force doesn't really prove misconduct.
Sure, they can do that if they kill in self-defense for instance. So can an average Joe for that matter.
I don't think it would have affected the outcome of the trial.
Sure, and just because of the US history it doesn't mean protests and media attention are necessary either. Not when videos can both doom and exonerate a cop, depending on what happened.
Pants-of-dog wrote:I am trying to underline how ridiculous it is to believe that killing someone in front of a crowd of cameras in broad daylight is not enough evidence for an arrest.
You seem to think that is fine for cops, and so you want to also pretend that this is normal for everyone else. But this is obviously not true.
So, you are then forced to argue that it is fine for cops to do this but no one else.
You are arguing that cops can kill someone who is not a threat, like Mr. Floyd, in broad daylight in front of a crowd of cameras, and not get arrested for it until further evidence is produced.
Pants-of-dog wrote:And I think there would have been no trial if there had not been international media attention and months of protests. The MPD released a statement that Mr. Floyd died of medical conditions while being arrested, and only changed their story after the international media attention and months of protests.
Pants-of-dog wrote:I doubt it.
wat0n wrote:Sure, until evidence that such action killed him when there could be doubts on the matter. And yes, there were doubts in this case.
What happens in the US is, again, much better than what happens regarding the police forces you support, such as those in Cuba, where they can shoot Black people and never get tried or arrested at all - even if things like American due process may make the process slower there in some cases. And no, this is not "whataboutism", it's exposing your double standards: The countries you support get a pass for doing much, much worse things in policing than the US is doing. The US isn't perfect, but justice has been served thus far in this trial, which is why you need to change your discourse to justify your anti-Americanism, going from "Chauvin will likely get free" to "w-well b-but they didn't arrest him immediately!!!1!".
I'll believe your outrage when you explicitly condemn the Cuban government for not arresting and trying the cop who shot Hansel Hernandez in the back.
They didn't "change their story after months of protests", they changed it the same day as the videos viralized. At least get your facts straight
Just like you doubted Chauvin would get guilty verdicts. I don't care about what you doubt.
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, yes, you are arguing that police can kill people in broad daylight et cetera. and not be arrested.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Strawman and whataboutism. Ignored.
Wiki wrote:Failed plea bargain
On May 28, state and federal prosecutors held a press conference at a regional FBI office in Brooklyn Center, a Minneapolis suburb, in what was anticipated to be a major development to the case against the officers who were at the scene of Floyd's death. Hennepin County Attorney Michael O. Freeman, the local official with jurisdiction to bring forth criminal charges for police misconduct, said his office needed more time to investigate. In explaining the anticipation of the media briefing and its two-hour delayed start, U.S. Attorney Erica MacDonald said, "I thought we would have another development to talk to you about, but we don’t." On June 9, it was revealed that state and federal prosecutors had discussed a plea deal with Chauvin that would have included state murder charges and federal civil rights charges, but the deal fell apart after United States Attorney General William Barr rejected the arrangement. Chauvin believed his prospects of winning at trial could be poor, and was willing to plead guilty to third-degree murder for a ten-year prison sentence. As he would have gone to federal prison, the federal government was involved. Barr worried that protestors might view the agreement as too lenient and prefer a full investigation.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Prove it.
Wiki wrote:Minneapolis police response
Early on May 26, the Minneapolis Police Department issued a statement which said nothing about Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck: "After Floyd got out [of his car], he physically resisted officers. Officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress." Hours later, witness and security camera video circulating on the internet showed Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck. The department updated its statement by stating that new information had "been made available" and that the FBI was joining the investigation. The four officers were briefly placed on paid administrative leave before being fired later that day. On June 17 the Minnesota Board of Peace Officer Standards and Training took up a review of the four officers' law-enforcement licenses.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Your feelings about my historical facts are not important. It is a historical fact that the MPD never charged a single officer before the last few years.
Unless you think that cops only magically started being bad in the last few years, the only logical conclusion is that charging and convicting cops is a new and unprecedthing.
wat0n wrote:By the way, another reason for why Chauvin wasn't arrested seems to be the following:
So he actually wanted to plea guilty for third degree murder and a 10 year sentence, but the Feds rejected it. And yes, that rejection was due to protests, and this likely also delayed the arrest. It's also interesting to learn Chauvin believed he had slim chances of winning the trial, I'm guessing this whole thing happened once all the involved parties learned about the autopsy reports' conclusions.
As the note says, the MPD then involved the FBI on May 26, of course as a result of the videos that surfaced.
...And this also shows how irrational your position was, since you are admitting there were prior examples from recent years of other cops being tried for misusing force. Now what would be truly unprecedented would be to see your beloved Cuban dictatorship doing the same when their police kills Black people, and see you condemning that since you are so concerned about the plight of BIPOCs
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