Chauvin's Innocence - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By XogGyux
#15170668
Puffer Fish wrote:Sometimes the laws are to blame, not those who enforce them.

A law that makes anything illegal implicitly tells police to do this. When a big strong man physically resists, what are police supposed to do? It's simply unreasonable and unrealistic to expect to have a perfect outcome 100% of the time in that situation.

Big strong man that is handcuffed in the floor, unarmed and you have your other buddies around you, you wearing a lethal weapon and an array of other non-lethal weapons?
This is beyond moronic.
User avatar
By Crantag
#15170669
Puffer Fish wrote:Pure emotion.

You people are unable to use logic, especially when an issue is more than a little bit complex.

Sir, I have a black belt in judo.

It was granted to me by the crew of Seiki Nose, Seiki Nose was a bronze medalist in judo at the 1984 Olympics.

I never watched that complete video, and I would advice anyone against watching it all, and I am quite distraught that death videos are now normal for media content.

But I watched enough to see a deadly choke.

It was murder.

And also, I am completely against show trials, and America is full of shit.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15170670
Puffer Fish wrote:Which facts do you claim I made up?


Really? Let's start with the tittle of the thread. Chauvin's "Innocence"? :lol:
Or... what about the alternative narrative that you trying to paint that the outcome was justified because "It is a strong black male full of psychoactive drugs that is resisting arrest", or the "He happens to have died from something else completely unrelated to someone sitting on his fucking neck for nearly 10 mins".
Should I continue or you get the point?
#15170671
XogGyux wrote:The whole fuking world has seen what happened

You don't understand that the type of laws you support can do this.

Government is not perfect. There is a big difference between theory and implementation.

As horrific as what happened was, which could be seen in that video, what you don't seem to be able to understand is that what happened was much closer to reasonable than you think. (Not saying it was entirely reasonable)

You can't expect police to approach these situations and for this type of thing to never happen. It is extremely easy for mistakes to be made. You need to seriously consider that and factor that in when deciding what level of punishment is appropriate when a mistake is made.
#15170672
XogGyux wrote:Or... what about the alternative narrative that you trying to paint that the outcome was justified because "It is a strong black male full of psychoactive drugs that is resisting arrest"

Isn't it true he was very much resisting right before the officer applied the knee?

If that isn't true, then I will agree with you.

XogGyux wrote:or the "He happens to have died from something else completely unrelated to someone sitting on his fucking neck for nearly 10 mins".

That is very possible, but that's not exactly what I claimed.
User avatar
By Crantag
#15170673
Puffer Fish wrote:You don't understand that the type of laws you support can do this.

Government is not perfect. There is a big difference between theory and implementation.

As horrific as what happened was, which could be seen in that video, what you don't seem to be able to understand is that what happened was much closer to reasonable than you think. (Not saying it was entirely reasonable)

You can't expect police to approach these situations and for this type of thing to never happen. It is extremely easy for mistakes to be made. You need to seriously consider that and factor that in when deciding what level of punishment is appropriate when a mistake is made.

That shit happens every day.

I am not one for show trials.

The thing about this one is it was so brazen and so blatent it couldn't be ignored.

It speaks poorly of you that you can't see that.

But it is okay. You can still come to the realization that you are wrong in this case, and do better next time. You're fine, dude. But, you are no less wrong here.
#15170676
Puffer Fish wrote:You do realise that American police sometimes use chokeholds in very difficult situations?

This though was not a difficult situation, and I'm hardly woke, but Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground. There was no need to knee his neck, especially when the guy said over and over that he could not breath.

Edit: Grammar fix.
Last edited by Random American on 04 May 2021 15:17, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15170697
XogGyux wrote:I guess you are one of those parents that when your child falls into a pool, you won't help him/her out until he/she literally passes out/dies because "if you can scream, you are not drowning".

The guy died, so it is quite obvious he stopped breathing at some point. I guess we just have to wait until they die to see if they are telling the truth?


The amount of mental hoops these apologists are jumping through is amazingly absurd.
#15170702
Imagine writing 3,000 words on why a police officer should face no consequences for murdering a man on camera.

Image
User avatar
By noemon
#15170714
Chauvin murdered Floyd live on camera.

It is not possible to watch that 10 minute murder porn and not see the murder happening in front of one's own eyes.
#15170717
Puffer Fish wrote:Isn't it true he was very much resisting right before the officer applied the knee?

If that isn't true, then I will agree with you.


I doubt that Mr. Floyd resisted arrest in any way.

You can tell because his murderer had his sunglasses poised carefully on the top of his head and they never fell off.

If you can describe how you can wrestle an unwilling man to the ground while keeping your sunglasses balanced on the top of your head, then. you may have an argument that Mr. Floyd was resisting arrest.

So please explain how a cop would do so. Thanks.
#15170798
Pants-of-dog wrote:I doubt that Mr. Floyd resisted arrest in any way.

You can tell because his murderer had his sunglasses poised carefully on the top of his head and they never fell off.

If you can describe how you can wrestle an unwilling man to the ground while keeping your sunglasses balanced on the top of your head, then. you may have an argument that Mr. Floyd was resisting arrest.

So please explain how a cop would do so.

Chauvin wasn't the one who really struggled with Floyd. That was other officers. Chauvin came on the scene to assist, but he had seen some of the struggle that had just happened.

I'm not saying your argument here is completely irrelevant, because it does indicate Chauvin personally would not have been tired out from struggling, and did not have an excuse to be personally angry or frustrated, and should have been able to enter that situation with a fresh mind.

It is a little piece of circumstantial evidence that helps shape our view of the situation.

I do have to point out that it's also possible, but unlikely, that he put the sunglasses on the top of his head after the suspect had been secured in the restraint, since the video does not actually cover the very beginning.


If you look at the bodycam video, they push the suspect into one side of the squad car and then another officer opens the door on the other side to get in there to pull him towards the center of the car, since the suspect seems to be acting hysterical and, combined with being handcuffed, it's not clear he can do everything for himself and needs assistance. Floyd hysterically shouts "I can't breathe", the officer is then heard saying "Fine!" and possibly seems to start pulling Floyd out the other end, but Floyd mostly propels out on his own momentum, and barrels out of the other side. This seems to possibly be a little surprising to the officer on the other side who doesn't really seem to be on top of the situation and is just assisting, and didn't know exactly what to do in that situation. Floyd sort of tumbles out and hysterically repeats in a rambling way twice "I want to lay on the ground!" One of the other officers than says "You're getting in the squad [car]" and it seems like several officers then try to push him back into the car. Floyd keeps resisting and then apparently at some moment goes into some sort of distress, as he goes quiet.
The sound isn't the most clear but it sounds like one of the officers says something about getting oxygen and something about a heart attack. So they recognise there is a possible medical issue, but they are also frustrated with the suspect resisting, tumbling out of the car as soon as they got him in. Floyd then complains he can't breathe twice, at this point sounding a little exhausted.
#15170913
Puffer Fish wrote:Chauvin wasn't the one who really struggled with Floyd. That was other officers. Chauvin came on the scene to assist, but he had seen some of the struggle that had just happened.


Sure.

Then the knee on the neck was not part of restraining a resisting arrestee. The resisting if the arrest was over by the time Mr. Floyd’s murderer started killing him.

In that case, the resisting of the arrest is irrelevant.

I'm not saying your argument here is completely irrelevant, because it does indicate Chauvin personally would not have been tired out from struggling, and did not have an excuse to be personally angry or frustrated, and should have been able to enter that situation with a fresh mind.

It is a little piece of circumstantial evidence that helps shape our view of the situation.

I do have to point out that it's also possible, but unlikely, that he put the sunglasses on the top of his head after the suspect had been secured in the restraint, since the video does not actually cover the very beginning.


But the video does show the murderer kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck for nine minutes with the glasses on his head.
User avatar
By Julian658
#15170916
Pants-of-dog wrote:Sure.

Then the knee on the neck was not part of restraining a resisting arrestee. The resisting if the arrest was over by the time Mr. Floyd’s murderer started killing him.

In that case, the resisting of the arrest is irrelevant.



But the video does show the murderer kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck for nine minutes with the glasses on his head.

Chauvin is guilty.
The issue is whether this is premeditated murder or not. I do not think he planned to kill Floyd, but he did. HE is GUILTY. Perhaps Floyd would have died of a drug overdose, but it does not matter Chauvin expedited GF's death.
#15171181
This was an appropriate use of force for knowingly or unknowingly failing to spend a $20 bill that may or may not have been a forgery. Given those facts, lethal force was entirely justified. Had he not been stopped it's possible that $20 of fake currency would have entered the economy.

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