Judge: Julian Assange will not be extradited, due to suicide risk - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15170613
ckaihatsu wrote:
Okay, then please provide some corroboration, like a link to a news article, perhaps.



"The report by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III released this past Friday amply documents that Assange, with the support of Russian intelligence, played a critical role in the 2016 presidential election. He is a potential missing link in the chain of understanding the extent to which foreign intervention affected the American electoral process.

This is not a partisan issue. Democrats certainly would have agreed with Mike Pompeo, speaking in 2017 as CIA director before becoming secretary of state last year, when he said, “It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is: a nonstate hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.”

Russia amassed a huge amount of information, and then put it out there. But it was so user unfriendly, nobody used it. So they got help.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ournalist/
#15170616
late wrote:
"The report by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III released this past Friday amply documents that Assange, with the support of Russian intelligence, played a critical role in the 2016 presidential election. He is a potential missing link in the chain of understanding the extent to which foreign intervention affected the American electoral process.

This is not a partisan issue. Democrats certainly would have agreed with Mike Pompeo, speaking in 2017 as CIA director before becoming secretary of state last year, when he said, “It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is: a nonstate hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.”

Russia amassed a huge amount of information, and then put it out there. But it was so user unfriendly, nobody used it. So they got help.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ournalist/



Okay, so your politics are now aligned with those of Mueller and Pompeo -- you're a CIA Democrat, basically.
#15170620
late wrote:I have no illusions here, he was a Russian pawn, but at the same time, he threw some light in some dark places.

We like to think of ourselves as something special. But the grim reality of empire keeps reminding us of the truth.

Yes, and Assange himself becomes the epitome of the abuses of the deep state as they make a mockery of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Very few people held Bush or Obama to account. Certainly not our so-called "free press." Assange played an important role.

late wrote:Democrats certainly would have agreed with Mike Pompeo, speaking in 2017 as CIA director before becoming secretary of state last year, when he said, “It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is: a nonstate hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.”

Perhaps, but Assange isn't a US citizen, owes no duty of allegiance to the US, and most of what he's published just embarrassed the establishment by exposing major fuck-ups that they have classified to save themselves from being held accountable. Nobody seriously thinks that he got that information himself. It was merely provided to Assange.

The problem then becomes that Assange has effectively been incarcerated for 10 years without trial, which makes all of the criticism of the US (and the UK) extremely well founded. I was fine with using military tribunals against Al Qaeda. Yet, nobody has had the balls to do it. Instead, they have kept people in Gitmo incarcerated for 19 years on a suspension of habeas corpus and no formal charges, no trial, no firing squads, nothing. The establishment has made a mockery of the United States and the Bill of Rights with this sort of thing.

One thing you can't say about Al Qaeda anymore is that they hate us for our freedoms. So many of those freedoms are effectively gone. The establishment is to blame for that, not Al Qaeda, and certainly not Russia. Why shouldn't our adversaries take advantage of a colossal establishment fuck up like that?

ckaihatsu wrote:Okay, so your politics are now aligned with those of Mueller and Pompeo -- you're a CIA Democrat, basically.

It sure seems like it. He always defends the establishment.
#15170682
blackjack21 wrote:
1) Yes, and Assange himself becomes the epitome of the abuses of the deep state


2) Perhaps, but Assange isn't a US citizen, owes no duty of allegiance to the US, and most of what he's published just embarrassed the establishment by exposing major fuck-ups that they have classified to save themselves from being held accountable. Nobody seriously thinks that he got that information himself. It was merely provided to Assange.

3) The problem then becomes that Assange has effectively been incarcerated for 10 years without trial, which makes all of the criticism of the US (and the UK) extremely well founded.

4) I was fine with using military tribunals against Al Qaeda. Yet, nobody has had the balls to do it. Instead, they have kept people in Gitmo incarcerated for 19 years on a suspension of habeas corpus and no formal charges, no trial, no firing squads, nothing. The establishment has made a mockery of the United States and the Bill of Rights with this sort of thing.

5) He always defends the establishment.



1) Clearly you are OK with Russia attacking us.

2) Some do, not that it matters. He violated a number of laws. Is this one of those Right wing loony tune moments, where you pretend Rule of Law doesn't apply when you don't want it to??

3) For a number of reasons, I feel this has gone on long enough, and it's time to move on.

4) That's a long story, and prob more than you can handle. President Cheney wanted torture. But that meant he could no longer prosecute them in ANY court, military or civilian. So he tried to invent a 3rd court system, and it is a nightmare.

5) Incorrect, as you can see in Post 4...
#15170785
You're not specifying anything, late -- you're just making empty characterizations and false accusations.

All Assange ever did was to document the kind of war crimes that the world knew about already anyway:



Image

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price–we think the price is worth it.

—60 Minutes (5/12/96)



https://fair.org/extra/we-think-the-price-is-worth-it/




Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse

Image
This image of a prisoner, Abdou Hussain Saad Faleh, being tortured has become internationally infamous, eventually making it onto the cover of The Economist (see "Media coverage" below)

During the early stages of the Iraq War, members of the United States Army and the CIA committed a series of human rights violations and war crimes against detainees in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq,[1] including physical and sexual abuse, torture, rape, sodomy, and murder.[2][3][4][1] The abuses came to public attention with the publication of photographs of the abuse by CBS News in April 2004. The incidents caused shock and outrage, receiving widespread condemnation within the United States and internationally.[5]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghrai ... oner_abuse
#15170908
late wrote:1) Clearly you are OK with Russia attacking us.

The US government can claim that Russia is attacking the US. That does not mean that I believe the US government's claim, while clearly you do. Julian Assange is not a Russian national.

late wrote:2) Some do, not that it matters. He violated a number of laws. Is this one of those Right wing loony tune moments, where you pretend Rule of Law doesn't apply when you don't want it to??

What laws do YOU think he violated. Why do you think US law in this case should apply to a non-US national operating on non-US soil?

late wrote:3) For a number of reasons, I feel this has gone on long enough, and it's time to move on.

Yes, and the same with Gitmo. Incarcerating people for nearly 20 years without trial is patently un-American. The US military claims to be defending the US constitution as they make a joke out of it.

late wrote:4) That's a long story, and prob more than you can handle. President Cheney wanted torture. But that meant he could no longer prosecute them in ANY court, military or civilian. So he tried to invent a 3rd court system, and it is a nightmare.

If you cannot prosecute them, at some point you have to let them go. 20 years seems like an absurdly long time to hold someone you aren't going to try in any court or tribunal.
#15170909
blackjack21 wrote:
The US government can claim that Russia is attacking the US. That does not mean that I believe the US government's claim, while clearly you do.



That is the most interesting thing you have ever said.

It's not just America. Many other countries were attacked, and in many ways.

You know, if you were a paid Russian troll, that is what you would say.
#15170919
late wrote:That is the most interesting thing you have ever said.

It's not just America. Many other countries were attacked, and in many ways.

You know, if you were a paid Russian troll, that is what you would say.

Frankly, I don't think leaking classified information is something Russia did. It obviously came from internal sources, like Bradley Manning. There are plenty of US citizens who don't like what the US was doing. You pointed one out yourself--enhanced interrogation techniques, or torture as you call it. When something leaks that you don't want leaked, you blame it on Russia. When something leaks that you want leaked, you are okay with it. Who leaked the enhanced interrogation stuff? Obviously a Democrat partisan, but they will never be known or punished, because it was leaked to attack the Bush administration and politically you were fine with that. The Abu Ghraib story was an inside whistleblower too. Seth Rich lost his life for his leak of the DNC server, and that was also blamed on Russia. I just finished Operation Dark Heart by Anthony Shaffer. He ended up losing his security clearance, because he informed the 9/11 commission that the DIA had identified Mohammed Atta and his cell 18 months before 9/11 as part of Able Danger. The establishment is incredibly petty. The only thing that doesn't look like an inside job was the hacking of Hillary Clinton's email and the hacking of John Podesta's email (which he made very easy by making his password "[email protected]" or somesuch). Clinton's email was attributed to Guccifer.

Russian cyberattacks tend to be spear phishing attacks to drain people's bank accounts. That's pretty well known. Most of the attacks that hit my test servers come from China not Russia. I have quite a bit of experience with this stuff and even hold US patents on cyber security. So there isn't really anything you can say to me to impress me. You simply subscribe to the establishment narrative, and I do not.

Hillary Clinton's phony Russiagate scandal has done significant damage to US credibility vis-à-vis Russia. When one is identified as authoring or trafficking in disinformation, it tends to harm one's credibility.
#15171034
He has been in prison for over 2 years now. What is his crime? No evidence has yet been officially presented of any underlying crime.


The whole Swedish situation was a fiasco. It later emerged that the two women who went to police, initially trying to compel Assange to take an HIV test, were not even aware that he could actually be criminally charged based on what had happened until the feminist female prosecutor informed them that the details they described constituted a crime under Swedish law.
This was a case of a man who was being a bit of a pig and did not have proper etiquette in the bedroom, and two women who felt regret afterwards, especially when they each found it he had been sleeping with the other one.

A man should not be punished for trying to escape responsibility for a crime when it later emerges there was no basis to hold him responsible for that alleged crime.

Can the judges in the UK be so blockheaded and naive not to realize that even if Assange had been found guilty in Sweden, he very likely would have only been sentenced to 6 months to a year, based on the details of what the actual allegations were, combined with Sweden's very lax sentencing policies? (Even real brutal rapists in that country have sometimes been sentenced to only 4 years) This would almost be more analogous to a traffic ticket, the way Sweden polices conduct in the bedroom.

I can guarantee you there is not a single muslim country anywhere on earth where what Assange was accused of doing (in Sweden) would be seen as a crime. And ironically it would almost certainly not be prosecuted as a crime in most places in the US either.

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