Why US will lose a war with China over Taiwan island - Page 9 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15171585
AFAIK wrote:China currently has a policy of not interfering with the internal affairs of other countries and it's foreign investment has helped improve the infrastructure and institutions in developing countries.


CCP China has a policy of totally annihilating the political structures(democratic or otherwise) of all the areas it conquers.

It has the same policy for Taiwan as it had for Hong Kong, Tibet & East Turkestan.

Their total subjugation under a dictator.
#15171586
noemon wrote:CCP China has a policy of totally annihilating the political structures(democratic or otherwise) of all the areas it conquers.

It has the same policy for Taiwan as it had for Hong Kong, Tibet & East Turkestan.

Their total subjugation under a dictator.

Who's next?


AFAIK wrote:China currently has a policy of not interfering with the internal affairs of other countries and it's foreign investment has helped improve the infrastructure and institutions in developing countries.

Why don't they follow this non-interference policy?

Also, they don't do foreign investment to help developing countries, they do it to make money and spread their control within these countries. They're just spreading their tentacles across the world. I don't know if having a foreign power increase its control and ownership in your country is in the interests of the locals.

The CCP are very smart. Imperialism via economics, migration, espionage, elite capture, and other clandestine operations is far easier to get away with than American or European-style military conquest.
#15171593
Russianbear wrote:
I am so sorry to learn that the truth is so painful for you. Please understand that just listening to fake news on CNN is not good for your physical and mental health. However, any alternative opinion can be useful to you.
And please refrain from personal attacks, try to stay civilized.




As we both already knew, the answer is no.
#15171597
late wrote:I am suddenly curious what % of the budget goes to your military. Because if you're talking tough, and can't back it up, well...

Over half our real budget goes to the military. It's far too much, and we're crazy to keep doing that.

But now that war with China is a possibility, we could use some help. With the exception of Britain, none of you could do much.

As I said earlier, we've kept China out of Taiwan. Here's hoping the poop doesn't hit the fan...


The Hellenes have sacrificed themselves both in World War I and in World War II and our entry in both wars was decisive for the outcome of both wars. Our military budget and participation always abides by NATO demands.

In addition, the Hellenes sacrificed themselves in the war of Korea as @Politics_Observer was kind enough to demonstrate the other day:



I do not think our integrity is in question here. However, American integrity towards it's allies especially towards Greece has been in serious doubt, though Biden like Obama is showing some clear signs of reversing this previous trend of large-scale betrayal.

The least you can do is support actions based on principles with integrity rather than expedience.

I thought your own criticism against others is based on exactly the same argument. Is it not? Principles over subjective expediency?
#15171623
Rugoz wrote:That's not even an attempt at explaining the correlation. Democratic governments are pro-American because the US protects their interests and vice-versa.



Then you're simply wrong. It is obviously an important factor in this ideological struggle.


History shows us that the USA is not concerned with democracy in its foreign policy.

I will ask you to provide evidence that the USA supports Taiwan for reasons of democracy and not geopolitical strategy.

Thank you.
#15171677
noemon wrote:Your post intentionally and deliberately mixed 2 things together without separating them in any meaningful way(Taiwan and Internal Chinese Policy), in the same bullet point. This is Goebelian levels of propaganda. Just like your plain obvious misinterpretation about the ADIZ, when you claimed that internal Chinese flights get registered as violations of the Taiwanese ADIZ; when I called you out on it, you retorted by showing a real violation of the Taiwanese ADIZ, not an internal flight from Shangai to Fuzhou or Xiamen as you had actually claimed.

In both separate cases, back-to-back, you were trying to blur the line of what is meant by "internally" which is precisely China's propaganda policy. So spare me your victim's tears, you 're not fooling anybody.

If you want to state that Taiwan is not an internal matter for CCP China, just say it out loud and be done with it instead of whining that people don't get you. Clear words are understood just fine. Sneaky props are also understood fine too.


Taiwan is not the internal affairs of China. I don't know how to state that more bluntly or clearly in a way that you will understand.

In an ideal world, China would respect the self-determination of the island.

In the messy non-ideal world, if I have to choose between China domination of Taiwan, and a new Cold War or hot war, then I prefer Chinese domination of the island. I don't think maintaining US/Western hegemony is an acceptable target that a new global conflict will cost, especially for the 5 billion citizens of the world that are not Chinese or EU/US citizens.

That being said - I'm reasonably convinced that China is satisfied with the status quo, and won't push for an invasion as long as it is not put into an untenable political position. The Taiwanese and Chinese economies are linked, the CCP is moving ahead on its democratic reforms, and I'm fairly convinced they believe, rightly or wrongly, that eventual peaceful reunification is inevitable. I don't view this position as appeasement - unlike Nazi Germany, China does not have and has not displayed any international territorial ambitions beyond what it defines as "restoring the borders of Qing China minus Mongolia". I don't think its a question of 'Taiwan today, Hawaii tomorrow.'

Finally, I'm also reasonably convinced that Taiwan, Korea, and Japan are aware of this Chinese attitude and are acting accordingly, especially the latter two. I'm hopeful that the US doesn't whip up its population into such a frenzy that it forces the red line and provokes an incident, especially given their track record in electing populist shitheads that don't seem to think through their decisions. This is my main concern - that the State Department/CIA, in trying to spread propaganda for the purpose of preserving its geopolitical position in the Pacific, accidently loses control of the situation domestically and that a government is forced to escalate the issue.
#15171701
Politics_Observer wrote:@Russianbear

Go away you paid Moscow troll. You have no critical thinking to contribute to this forum.


Yes, that's the problem. Like your Empire, you love to talk and listen only to yourself.
Ignorance and arrogance are twins who like to be together.
That's OK considering you are a Deep State Bot (troll).
Last edited by Russianbear on 10 May 2021 08:54, edited 1 time in total.
#15171707
Unthinking Majority wrote:Who's next?



Why don't they follow this non-interference policy?

Also, they don't do foreign investment to help developing countries, they do it to make money and spread their control within these countries. They're just spreading their tentacles across the world. I don't know if having a foreign power increase its control and ownership in your country is in the interests of the locals.
The CCP are very smart. Imperialism via economics, migration, espionage, elite capture, and other clandestine operations is far easier to get away with than American or European-style military conquest.


That is why having multipolarity is important. For small non-nuke-carrying nations who are just pieces to move around strategically for the nuke, powers have to be the new thing. these old cold war tactics don't have any locals at all included in decision-making. it will usher in the new era of recolonization.

The world needs more independence and more free agency and internal controls of its own resources. Not the opposite. At the same time, the Chinese are offering mass development but I am unsure if it will be something that will be adequately regulated.

The challenge ahead is massive. It requires various policies. For me having environmentally sound practices is very important. China fails on this so far. They have a city in Beijing that is so contaminated that people got to stay indoors and suffer nose bleeds and headaches and have a lot of air pollution, water pollution. It doesn't make any nation confident that the CCP led Chinese government is going to take care of their precious natural resources responsibly if they are allowed international contracts.

Also, the second issue is having a controversial and nasty lack of worker protections. Stories of suicide and other horrors going on in these cell phone factories and no breaks, long hours, terrible pay, and lack of worker-owned options and it is all state capitalistic crap with workers not democratically part of the process is worrying and also brings great lack of confidence.

For me, workers are the primary center of a socialist society. if workers are being exploited for the state and the state doesn't treat them well? They have failed at their primary objective.

Now, again to multipolarity. The way one checks abuses by these ambitious nuclear powers? Is making sure neither or none are the only superpower or seek world domination.

China is in a position to overtake the USA in a few short years. In terms of market, GDP, and etc. The USA though is a needed and important market for China so the USA can negotiate many policies. But again, it will require a lack of sellout politicians in DC. The problem the Hill has is too many scrupleless, bought-off fools who are fomenting violent partisanship, and also both parties refuse to do what is necessary for their own population and don't unify to get anything important done. So they are leaving themselves open for an efficient, and authoritarian, and now prosperous and economically powerful CCP to do a long-term market control of the entire world. The USA has failed to be consistent. A big problem.

Taiwan has always been an important trade partner for the PRC. It is right in front of them. The USA is trying to protect its interests in the island chain routes and its military geopolitical positions.

The need for multipolarity is growing. Because the failures of inter-cooperation between many nations interests in the future are going to cause really terrible low-level conflicts. A slow boil. We got enough problems avoiding environmental backlashes set to be unleashed by the lack of investment, time, and efforts in making things stable enough to avoid a total collapse of systems. Economic systems, ecological systems and social systems where people spend more time on their screens than interacting with each other and getting to know who they are with every day.
#15171708
Tainari88 wrote:That is why having multipolarity is important.


Wouldn't this work against your international socialist dream? The multi-polarity world that you are rooting for would further cement the global capitalist mode. It would further cement the imperialist world order. It would just be a multi-empire world, that doesn't soften anything for the anti-imperialist.

I think your position on this matter is really odd. You root for authoritarian regimes to implant their tentacles into your people/culture/nations. In some hope that all of these competing powers will be too busy fighting each other than exploiting your people. That somehow, your people will be able to benefit from this. That somehow, that maybe your people/culture/nations can get a few more concessions from competing powers. That somehow, this will resolve the deep fundamental issues you see with capitalism and imperialism? However, You are basically asking to be pawn, and it doesn't matter who controls the game board, pawns always get stomped in the struggle. Pawns are always manipulated. There are no concessions to be given. They are not fighting for who gets help you, they are fighting for who gets to control you. All of this makes it worse for you in the long term. It makes it worse for any sort of international unity and cooperation, as the global culture will just devolve backwards into imperialistic struggle and competition.

I think your position is deeply flawed and completely at odds with your stated socialist and anti-imperialist ideals.

I think you are making a massive mistake and accepting CCP manipulation across the globe. It will, of course, be too late when you come to your senses. When there is finally a critical mass of realization, it will be too late to prevent another global conflagration.
Last edited by Rancid on 10 May 2021 16:18, edited 1 time in total.
#15171721
Rancid wrote:Wouldn't this work against your international socialist dream? The multipolarity world that you are rooting for would further cement the global capitalist mode. It would further cement the imperialist world order. It would just be a multi-empire world, that doesn't soften anything for the anti-imperialist.

I think your position on this matter is really odd. You root for authoritarian regimes to implant their tentacles into your people/culture/nations. In some hope that all of these competing powers will be too busy fighting each other than exploiting your people. That somehow, your people will be able to benefit from this. That somehow, that maybe your people/culture/nations can get a few more concessions from competing powers. That somehow, this will resolve the deep fundamental issues you see with capitalism and imperialism? However, You are basically asking to be pawn, and it doesn't matter who controls the game board, pawns always get stomped in the struggle. All of this makes it worse for you in the long term.

I think your position is deeply flawed and completely at odds with your stated socialist and anti-imperialist ideals. It's like, you want to be used.


No Rancid, that is not true at all. I think you fail to see how I view things.

The PRC and the USA among others have a total lack of respect for democracy. The further they go fighting among themselves the more waste and chaos will happen for all of us. But it also leads to an opportunity for others to not be stomped. Haven't you noticed that if the USA is worn down with so many wars that are highly unpopular at home? That eventually they take their eyes off the ball in Latin America. The Chinese want to get in there. They build stuff that has been neglected by the USA for decades because the USA only invests in armies and military and never in useful things like water, bridges, roads and so on.

There are limits to it all. You are thinking that the two Empires will be going full steam ahead without huge problems. I don't think they will. They will be wracked by pandemics, disease, environmental bullshit they themselves have created with greed and lack of respect for workers and people and so on. IN that gap Rancid there is a sliver of hope. For the ones being used to get fed up, organized in a third column and pushed ahead....and there will be eventually a reckoning between these two or three world powers.

But the nationalistic shit is over with Rancid. Thinking in USA USA rah rah mierda is over. And thinking the Chinese are some benevolent socialist place is also a lie. Both are going to be pushing and pushing but the real law is going to be the Earth. That will put limits on ALL OF US. Cooperate or die. That is what will happen.

And in that the pawns are freed. Free at last. Free at last.

If you force it? The Earth is going to be judge and jury on all of it.

But thinking nationalistic insularism is the answer to the interdependence of capitalist frameworks that have created the present world we live in Rancid? No.

You are worried about being caught in the middle. You should be. Because in the end? All of us are going to be pushed into globalism and it either is going to force cooperation or spell annihilation. And looking at how we act in this pandemic? It is going to force cooperation. No one wants to die. If humanity continues into the false thinking that workers are expendable, their neighbors behaviors doesn't affect them, the suffering of others has nothing to do with their own suffering? They will choose extinction.

They better start thinking if Africa does well I do well. If Latin America does well. I do well. If Europe does well so do I.

If they fail to leap that river? And stay in selfish fuck the world only the USA or fuck the world only the PRC or fuck the world____________fill in the blank?

We are not going to make it Rancid.

But I am confident that they will get the message and that the good people who are humanists are the majority and not a minority.

If you don't understand me it is because you are an Anarchist with a Penis campaign and don't think like I do. Hee hee. :lol:
Last edited by Tainari88 on 10 May 2021 16:32, edited 1 time in total.
#15171722
Tainari88 wrote:
No Rancid, that is not true at all. I think you fail to see how I view things.

The PRC and the USA among others have a total lack of respect for democracy. The further they go fighting among themselves the more waste and chaos will happen for all of us. But it also leads to an opportunity for others to not be stomped. Haven't you noticed that if the USA is worn down with so many wars that are highly unpopular at home? That eventually they take their eyes off the ball in Latin America. The Chinese want to get in there. They build stuff that has been neglected by the USA for decades because the USA only invests in armies and military and never in useful things like water, bridges, roads and so on.

There are limits to it all. You are thinking that the two Empires will be going full steam ahead without huge problems. I don't think they will. They will be wracked by pandemics, disease, environmental bullshit they themselves have created with greed and lack of respect for workers and people and so on. IN that gap Rancid there is a sliver of hope. For the ones being used to get fed up, organized in a third column and pushed ahead....and there will be eventually a reckoning between these two or three world powers.

But the nationalistic shit is over with Rancid. Thinking in USA USA rah rah mierda is over. And thinking the Chinese are some benevolent socialist place is also a lie. Both are going to be pushing and pushing but the real law is going to be the Earth. That will put limits on ALL OF US. Cooperate or die. That is what will happen.

And in that the pawns are freed. Free at last. Free at last.


Nope, you are asking for a new master. NOt a liberator. Not a business partner. Not an investor. A master.
#15171728
Rancid wrote:Nope, you are asking for a new master. NOt a liberator. Not a business partner. Not an investor. A master.


who the hell said PRC or USA are liberators? Me? No. The USA via Donald Trump commented about trading Puerto Rico away for Greenland? Who to? The European Union? Probably not. To the PRC.

We are toys to these empires. And they are ruthless. How to cope? Because look at the numbers Rancid. The PRC is ramping up the numbers. The USA is going back to neoliberalism and Biden will start with the neoliberal agenda. The other 40% of the electorate wants a cult personality Republican party. They are spending out of control on trying to keep the masses from being extremely angry and the PRC says....push forward with expansion of our interests.

Where are the little people like all the islands of the Caribbean Rancid. The African nations and etc? They are in free fall.

And unless we find solutions to the problems we face? Without one of these nations pushing nukes and or threatening with mass takeovers? Things will not improve. Do you think the USA is a better deal?

I think the deals are horrible. The USA is about military apartheid. They go into nations and build mini malls, and USA style suburbs and etc for the military families and the ones they occupy don't get much in return but problems.

Have you studied how many military bases and that half of the entire budget of the USA goes to the military. They won't change Rancid.

The PRC is not going to stop busting moves for dominance. They have been hacking, scheming and doing and working on the move for a long time now. So they are in the final lap. For you they are the most evil fucking Empire the world has known. I happen to think they are a production of the entire colonization of Asia by the European powers since the 19th century and they have brought this severe reaction of the Pacific Rising on themselves with their Imperial shit that they kept insisting on to be rich and greedy. All of this has a long history Rancid.

What are the solutions? Do you have any?

My solution is if they don't do what needs to be done to have people survive? The planet will do it for them. For sure. Rising sea levels, Seapspiracy movie, wasting food that is required for capitalist forms of food production in a world that will be fighting over clean water access and enough food to feed far flung places and people at home. People who won't go back to no social services and rawhide nationalistic Far Right theories that Americans can live without social security, food stamps and subsidized housing without some violence and pushback.

It will have to be worked out. My proposal is to change the adversarial value system of we are better. We are a democracy that can be emulated. We have the answers and we America are the light of civilization. ONLY US. THat shit has to go Rancid. because if that is what most think is reality? They are asking for trouble.

PRC is horrible. ANd the fight for supremacy will go on. What is in it for the pawns? Being sold off and ignored. But the truth is that a few very dedicated people willing to change the value system of adversarial politics and make it more important to cooperate than to compete...? Are the ones who can have a shot at stability. peace and a world worth living in.

Because if you only respect people with nations that possess Nuclear Bombs and you stomp on the rest? There will no peace. None. For anyone.

Do you want to live in that world Rancid? I do not.
#15171732
Tainari88 wrote:That is why having multipolarity is important. For small non-nuke-carrying nations who are just pieces to move around strategically for the nuke, powers have to be the new thing. these old cold war tactics don't have any locals at all included in decision-making. it will usher in the new era of recolonization.

Multi-polarity also caused WWI and WWII.
#15171738
Unthinking Majority wrote:Multi-polarity also caused WWI and WWII.


Yes, you are correct. We are facing a very important turning point. Do we want WWIII?

I don't. Do you?

Thinking the USA has to be the one in charge and the PRC is going to go back to what they were? How likely is that to happen? Not very likely.

Is the USA going to go to war with China over Taiwan? Not likely.

Sanctions? Maybe. But the truth is that the USA is very close to being a captive market of the PRC that is fairly difficult to reverse. So?

Again, find ways to cooperate and to get nations to negotiate and avoid war. If another war breaks out there is not doubt the USA will be the nation with more weapons of mass destruction. Do they want to be the ones to hit another Asian nation with two nuclear bombs like one in Beijing and another in one of their mega cities?

So they can finally say they put the Chinese in their place? Do you know how bad that will be? The A bombs of yesteryear where pretty bad. But the ones they have now? Much much worse.

Cooperate and don't compete to the point of wanting to dominate. Start cooperating. If the PRC has hacked into all of the info there is? Not much to do now and can't hide. I think the USA needs to stop with myths and infighting and start working on massive problems.

It is the only way.
#15171751
Tainari88 wrote:
who the hell said PRC or USA are liberators? Me? No. The USA via Donald Trump commented about trading Puerto Rico away for Greenland? Who to? The European Union? Probably not. To the PRC.

We are toys to these empires. And they are ruthless. How to cope? Because look at the numbers Rancid. The PRC is ramping up the numbers. The USA is going back to neoliberalism and Biden will start with the neoliberal agenda. The other 40% of the electorate wants a cult personality Republican party. They are spending out of control on trying to keep the masses from being extremely angry and the PRC says....push forward with expansion of our interests.

Where are the little people like all the islands of the Caribbean Rancid. The African nations and etc? They are in free fall.

And unless we find solutions to the problems we face? Without one of these nations pushing nukes and or threatening with mass takeovers? Things will not improve. Do you think the USA is a better deal?

I think the deals are horrible. The USA is about military apartheid. They go into nations and build mini malls, and USA style suburbs and etc for the military families and the ones they occupy don't get much in return but problems.

Have you studied how many military bases and that half of the entire budget of the USA goes to the military. They won't change Rancid.

The PRC is not going to stop busting moves for dominance. They have been hacking, scheming and doing and working on the move for a long time now. So they are in the final lap. For you they are the most evil fucking Empire the world has known. I happen to think they are a production of the entire colonization of Asia by the European powers since the 19th century and they have brought this severe reaction of the Pacific Rising on themselves with their Imperial shit that they kept insisting on to be rich and greedy. All of this has a long history Rancid.

What are the solutions? Do you have any?

My solution is if they don't do what needs to be done to have people survive? The planet will do it for them. For sure. Rising sea levels, Seapspiracy movie, wasting food that is required for capitalist forms of food production in a world that will be fighting over clean water access and enough food to feed far flung places and people at home. People who won't go back to no social services and rawhide nationalistic Far Right theories that Americans can live without social security, food stamps and subsidized housing without some violence and pushback.

It will have to be worked out. My proposal is to change the adversarial value system of we are better. We are a democracy that can be emulated. We have the answers and we America are the light of civilization. ONLY US. THat shit has to go Rancid. because if that is what most think is reality? They are asking for trouble.

PRC is horrible. ANd the fight for supremacy will go on. What is in it for the pawns? Being sold off and ignored. But the truth is that a few very dedicated people willing to change the value system of adversarial politics and make it more important to cooperate than to compete...? Are the ones who can have a shot at stability. peace and a world worth living in.

Because if you only respect people with nations that possess Nuclear Bombs and you stomp on the rest? There will no peace. None. For anyone.

Do you want to live in that world Rancid? I do not.


ok ok ok,

but what I hear from you on this matter is that the solution to imperialism, is more imperialism. That's what I'm reading.
#15171759
In a broad sense: the current world order is entrenched and will not change from within Western societies, for a variety of reasons - weak state institutions captured or designed to protect globalized capital; a complicit proletariat that benefits from Third World exploitation and is unwilling to act for radical change that may upset that world order; and a corrupt and self-serving ideology among the political and economic elite in those countries, to name a few. These changes started in the Anglosphere and spread outward. China's rise will necessarily require the economic and social development of the Global South, which will serve as a force for revolutionary change within Western societies in a way similar that the arrival of Europeans in China in the 18th century served as an impetus for the breaking down of the stagnant but stable imperial system within China.

Of course, within this period of history, China will act in a self-serving way and a sort of 'Beijing Consensus' will replace the 'Washington Consensus'. I don't think anyone disputes that, or argues that China is perfectly egalitarian or some perfect society/city on a hill. However, I don't share the fears of many on here that China is some unique evil, or that their 'imperial ambitions' will be 'as bad or worse' than the West's. Any change China 'imposes' on the West will be indirectly, and ultimately reduce the exploitation of both the Global South and the Western proletariat.
#15171777
Rancid wrote:ok ok ok,

but what I hear from you on this matter is that the solution to imperialism, is more imperialism. That's what I'm reading.


No, Rancid I really hate imperialism. It has cost me my mother's life, an island nation that is where I was born and to have to see it in constant colonial status with all options for destroying the colonial relationship increasingly hard to change due to Greed from banks that rule the political life of the Empire that uses us forever? And I am advocating for more imperialism Rancid? NO.

What I am saying is that unless these Empires like the USA and others who are aspiring to Empire like Russia and the PRC--start on a path to change?No one is going to back down.

I am a realist Rancid. The USA doesn't listen unless there is a serious crisis and a serious threat. The PRC wants to keep feeding its middle classes. And don't doubt the truth that China has a growing middle class and the USA is starving its middle classes and pushing them in the underclasses and the working class. WHY? To feed a very elitist globalist group. WHY?

If you ask enough whys? You get to an economic system called NEOLIBERALISM and NEOCONSERVATISM. It places a need to have capitalism keep expanding. Constantly. Is is sustainable? No. So change has to happen. Will it?

That is the big question mark. Multipolarity has the danger of an ex Empire losing control of its position. Because the PRC is an enormous country with a lot of people. It is not like India but it is a very authoritarian state.

The USA is authoritarian with foreign policies that are about protecting corporations.

Where will they crash? Collide and fight?

I think this video will illuminate it:





A lot of feathers being ruffled.

The Rules-based orders.

Rules about capitalism? Communism?

It is about elites wanting Chinese markets and Chinese wanting to be the Superpower of the 21st century.

Cooperation is gonna be an option. It has nothing to do about our feelings about who is the Master of the Universe.

The worst thing in the world is the arrogance that is endemic in governments who are into Imperialism.

#15171787
Tainari88 wrote:Yes, you are correct. We are facing a very important turning point. Do we want WWIII?

I don't. Do you?

Thinking the USA has to be the one in charge and the PRC is going to go back to what they were? How likely is that to happen? Not very likely.

Is the USA going to go to war with China over Taiwan? Not likely.

No i don't want WWIII. It won't get to that point, it didn't during the Cold War.

I don't really care who is in charge, but i want them to be a democratic country, because democratic governments are at least accountable to somebody (the electorate), and can be fired for doing a bad job. The CCP could rape 1 million babies and nobody could do a thing. If Biden ordered 1 million babies to be raped I would guess he likely wouldn't get re-elected.

China will not go to war with the USA over Taiwan, because China isn't stupid. Like most governments they are rational actors. China is always doing a cost-benefit analysis as any rational actor does, and the costs of going to war with the USA over Taiwan are far higher than the benefits. China will continue to push and aggravate re: Taiwan but they will do nothing militarily any time soon. Unless they bluff and the US blinks.
#15171788
Fasces wrote:Of course, within this period of history, China will act in a self-serving way and a sort of 'Beijing Consensus' will replace the 'Washington Consensus'. I don't think anyone disputes that, or argues that China is perfectly egalitarian or some perfect society/city on a hill. However, I don't share the fears of many on here that China is some unique evil, or that their 'imperial ambitions' will be 'as bad or worse' than the West's. Any change China 'imposes' on the West will be indirectly, and ultimately reduce the exploitation of both the Global South and the Western proletariat.

The USA uses its wealth and power to dominate and exploit other countries for economic and geopolitical gain in order to further its own national interests (typically for economic and security reasons). China does THE EXACT same. It's methods are a bit different due to different capabilities and comparative advantages and strategic choices, but the intent is basically the same: more power, more wealth, more security. Neither the US gov nor the Chinese gov are saints.

HOWEVER, and this is a big but, the US as a democracy are at least accountable to somebody (the electorate). The CCP could rape 1 million babies and nobody could do a thing. If Biden ordered 1 million babies to be raped I would guess he likely wouldn't get re-elected. Imagine if George W. Bush governed for life as a dictator, or Donald Trump? My fear with the CCP is if China becomes a hegemon the possibility that a very bad man is put into office. A sociopath like a Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein etc.

Also, if you think the CCP will exploit the global south less than the USA I don't know where that reasoning comes from. If it will further their geopolitical and economic interests the CCP will do anything they can get away with, just like the US, only the CCP can't lose re-election.
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