Big Vehicles: War Wagons - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15171491
Despite the environmental mantra of “small is beautiful,” Americans continue to abandon small cars in favor of bulky SUVs. Fuel-sipping subcompacts such as the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit have been dropped from the 2021 model lines.

As noted in a Motorweek review, drivers want to “sit high with a commanding view,” the instinct of a general who wants the high ground in any battle. Americans seem to be preparing for civil war in their car buying decisions. You don’t want to be sitting in a small, lightweight car looking up at your enemy in a battle-ready, tank-like SUV.
By late
#15171494
Robert Urbanek wrote:
Despite the environmental mantra of “small is beautiful,” Americans continue to abandon small cars in favor of bulky SUVs. Fuel-sipping subcompacts such as the Toyota Yaris and Honda Fit have been dropped from the 2021 model lines.

As noted in a Motorweek review, drivers want to “sit high with a commanding view,” the instinct of a general who wants the high ground in any battle. Americans seem to be preparing for civil war in their car buying decisions. You don’t want to be sitting in a small, lightweight car looking up at your enemy in a battle-ready, tank-like SUV.





Dumb srivers feel, erroneously, that safer is better. The reality is SUVs like to roll due to the high center of gravity, and they used to be considerably more dangerous, for that reason. They improved the handling, but they didn't change math or physics.

I drive a Prius, like all cars, it has crush zones and does quite well in crash tests. It doesn't often kill it's occupants by rolling over.

There's maybe a thousand reasons we need a Carbon Tax, that's one of them. If we could get the bulk of the fleet to be of a reasonable size, that would improve safety for everyone.
#15171496
Large vehicles have caught up dramatically in terms of fuel efficiency. My wife's small SUV gets better fuel millage than my small hatch back. Granted, it's a hybrid SUV. Still SUVs have caught up. The car manufacturers did this by adding turbos and more gears, as well as moving to CVT transmissions.

Last, all of this doesn't matter as electric and hybrid adoption continues to climb. No need to demonize SUVs.

For the record, I'm not a fan of SUV. However, I'm not into demonizing them either.
By late
#15171498
Rancid wrote:
Large vehicles have caught up dramatically in terms of fuel efficiency.



Except more of the same is asking for more disaster.

That's insane.
#15171557
late wrote:Dumb srivers feel, erroneously, that safer is better.

You think safer is not better?

late wrote:The reality is SUVs like to roll due to the high center of gravity, and they used to be considerably more dangerous, for that reason.

It depends. American full size trucks get 4 out of 5 stars for safety on rollovers.

late wrote:They improved the handling, but they didn't change math or physics.

The leading cause of fatal accidents are:

1. Distracted driving
2. DUI: 65% of fatalities involve a driver with some amount of alcohol.
3. Speeding and reckless driving
4. Driving in bad weather
5. Trying to beat traffic lights turning red.

late wrote:I drive a Prius, like all cars, it has crush zones and does quite well in crash tests. It doesn't often kill it's occupants by rolling over.

American full size trucks have strong roofs.

late wrote:There's maybe a thousand reasons we need a Carbon Tax, that's one of them. If we could get the bulk of the fleet to be of a reasonable size, that would improve safety for everyone.

It's not size. It's weight. The Ford F-150 dropped 700 pounds by moving to an aluminium body.

The Ford F-150 has been the best selling truck in America for 40 years. A lot of that has to do with durability and being able to handle America's shitty roads.
#15171563
Rancid wrote:Large vehicles have caught up dramatically in terms of fuel efficiency. My wife's small SUV gets better fuel millage than my small hatch back. Granted, it's a hybrid SUV. Still SUVs have caught up. The car manufacturers did this by adding turbos and more gears, as well as moving to CVT transmissions.

Last, all of this doesn't matter as electric and hybrid adoption continues to climb. No need to demonize SUVs.

For the record, I'm not a fan of SUV. However, I'm not into demonizing them either.


I know someone with a mid-2000's 4-cylinder small hatchback that gets only slightly better mileage than another friend who has a recent 8-cylinder large pick-up truck. I couldn't believe it.

Most mainstream SUVs are actually not very powerful and can't tow very much. Most don't drive a Suburban.
#15171564
There's a weird dominance thing with some drivers and their vehicles. I've met so many pickup trucks on the road that think they're tough because they're in a truck and think they can intimidate other smaller cars on the road. It's so odd. Most people probably know what i'm talking about.
#15171596
Unthinking Majority wrote:
I know someone with a mid-2000's 4-cylinder small hatchback that gets only slightly better mileage than another friend who has a recent 8-cylinder large pick-up truck. I couldn't believe it.

Most mainstream SUVs are actually not very powerful and can't tow very much. Most don't drive a Suburban.



Which changes our need to reduce carbon emissions not one tiny bit..
#15171607
Unthinking Majority wrote:There's a weird dominance thing with some drivers and their vehicles. I've met so many pickup trucks on the road that think they're tough because they're in a truck and think they can intimidate other smaller cars on the road. It's so odd. Most people probably know what i'm talking about.


This does happen. I experience it the most with women. Women in SUVs. I don't give a shit if it sounds like I'm stereotyping... women in jeeps especiacially.
#15171637
Unthinking Majority wrote:There's a weird dominance thing with some drivers and their vehicles. I've met so many pickup trucks on the road that think they're tough because they're in a truck and think they can intimidate other smaller cars on the road. It's so odd. Most people probably know what i'm talking about.


It's a hard feeling to avoid. I've always driven smaller cars, but the second I get behind the wheel of a moving truck I feel like a Mad Max antagonist.
#15171654
libertasbella wrote:It's a hard feeling to avoid. I've always driven smaller cars, but the second I get behind the wheel of a moving truck I feel like a Mad Max antagonist.


I just feel a lot higher up in a big truck. I don't bully people.
#15171699
Red_Army wrote:We should eliminate single vehicles for commuting and replace them with efficient public transport.

Which is fine if you live somewhere with either an existing public transport system, or the potential to create one.

I don't.

Neither do a lot of other people.

And even when I did, much depends on your definition of 'efficient'.

Some years ago I lived in Sheffield, which has one of the better integrated tansport networks in the UK, outside of London, but to get from where I lived (my employer's choice, not mine) to where I worked took me two hours on public transport - each way. The same journey in a car took me an hour and the same journey on my motorbike took me 30 minutes, so you can guess which option I chose - four hours of my day taken up by traveling vs 1 hour of my day taken up by traveling? No contest. Besides, I'd far rather be on my bike than stuck in a crowded bus or train with a bunch of strangers.

As for 'war wagons', I've had a few 4x4s in my time (including a Landrover Discovery when we lived in Sheffield) and as it happens, later this week I'm going to look at another (Toyota Rav4) to replace my 20 yr old MPV (Toyota Previa). The Rav4 does twice the 'gas mileage' of my current vehicle, but it's not just that and my preference for 4x4s that guides my potential purchase. As you might have guessed from my opening comments, I now live in an isolated, rural area where public transport is negligible, there are a lot of places I go to that are not serviced by tarmac roads and the winters can be pretty grim, so a 4x4 is a sensible option for us.

Here in the UK, we get pretty pissed off at politicians pasing laws with national application from their rarified position as a 'metropolitan elite', so RA's suggestion might be valid in some grim, urbanised Socialist dystopia, but it doesn't work in real life.
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