Hartlepool By-Election - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Juin
#15171410
B0ycey wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57019456

Fuck me England is turning into a complete shithole when they can't even defeat the Tories in the North. We have lost this generation. I like Starmer but we need someone like Long Bailey in. Old Labour might not win an election right now but it did have momentum under Corbyn and frankly that is what the party needs. Also, can we have a Pro EU party back please. Seems everyone has gone to the Greens.



I was delighted by the Tory victory.
By B0ycey
#15171416
Cartertonian wrote:I'm probably allowing my own (rural) bias to cloud my judgement, but if you were visiting I would recommend one of the smaller, provincial cities like York, which are better ambassadors than any of the metropolitan sprawls. I've lived in Birmingham and it has a few nice parts, but I still couldn't recommend it to anyone. London is more like a theme park interwoven with a grimy, urban dystopia. Worth seeing, but not for long.


Worcester is very much like York given it is a city without the skyscrapers with a rich history especially in regards to the English civil war. Do you know where the last battle took place?

As for Birmingham, it isn't in my county, it isn't the closest city to me and it has to be at least and hour and a half drive away. But given I once said we shared a train line with it we are now regarded as Brummies because both cities are in the Midlands. Not that I have an issue with that given Birmingham is a very friendly city actually and the Black Country is a very family oriented district. But yes, urban and rural areas are different but that can be said for every country around the world, not just the UK. And I would recommend Birmingham to anyone who is interested in the Industrial revolution, the Staffordshire hoard, canals, chocolate, multiculture, curry etc as the city has much to offer the world, has great shopping and has had some great investment spend on it. The are also running the next Commonwealth games. Also, Stratford is near Worcester, half an hour away, something I want to say given you quoted Shakespeare.
#15171495
If anyone wants to waste their precious holiday in the U.K. mooching around York, then why not? There’s not much to do.
I went once. I wouldn’t go again.
I’m not keen on the north in general.
During the general election I watched a family from a northern town living on benefits and queueing at a shop that sold out of date tins and packets saying they were voting for Boris Johnson because he was a real character. Yet we live in the same country.

My daughter considered relocating to Manchester when her relationship ended. Some fool told her it was up and coming, plus she has friends there. Anyway, it’s not up and coming and it turns out the friend who told her it was a ‘doomp’ wasn’t wrong, so she changed her mind -but it’s great that Andy Burnham won in a landslide.

London is very expensive, but that’s because people want to live there. There’s also lots to do, whatever your tastes. Much of it free. My daughter lives in Greenwich, which is lovely and only a short journey away from Canary Wharf where she works. Plus it’s Labour run!

It looks as if it’s going to be a close run for Sadiq Khan. I’m keeping everything crossed.
#15171962
A couple of casual thought bubbles from an outside observer on the continued tori dominance:

1. A change in government in democracies generally requires the voters to feel financially hit in a significant way. Corruption and administrative incompetence will be tolerated as long as it doesn't directly impact the voter's hip pocket. In spite of everything happening with Brexit, most Brits still have not felt a big hit to their personal finances.

2. As cart alluded to, the UK's archaic first past the post voting system forces a huge number of people to hold their noses and 'make their vote count' - ie by not wasting it on minor parties/independents. A two-party preferential voting system like we have in Australia would presumably increase Labour's electoral chances.

3. And then there's Murdoch...
#15171985
Farage and Johnson peddle a dream of returning to a glorious past which has never existed. However, like all good cons there’s a grain of truth in it.
I live in an area which, until comparatively recently, was predominantly white working class. My neighbours feel left behind. They don’t recognise the place they’ve lived in all their lives. I try to point out it wasn’t all that great back then, that there were a lot of social injustices , but they don’t see it. The problem is, at least where I live, the lack of community spirit. Each group of people keep to themselves. There is no, or very little, social cohesion.
My neighbours see Labour as not representing them at all, but only foreigners and ethnic minorities.
#15172910
snapdragon wrote:Farage and Johnson peddle a dream of returning to a glorious past which has never existed. However, like all good cons there’s a grain of truth in it.
I live in an area which, until comparatively recently, was predominantly white working class. My neighbours feel left behind. They don’t recognise the place they’ve lived in all their lives. I try to point out it wasn’t all that great back then, that there were a lot of social injustices , but they don’t see it. The problem is, at least where I live, the lack of community spirit. Each group of people keep to themselves. There is no, or very little, social cohesion.
My neighbours see Labour as not representing them at all, but only foreigners and ethnic minorities.


My interpretation of that is that at this moment communities are fixated on cultural/identity issues - but without any, or little economic grievances. This may come later as the effects of Brexit start to hit home.

As an outside observer, it seems completely nonsensical that communities that purportedly decry the loss of cohesion and sense of community in society - keep voting in the ultimate anti-community party (eg policies on former community pillars like unions, attacks on minorities, austerity etc). To me this is only something that is possible by a concerted indoctrination campaign by the dominant conservative mainstream media. I think its a curse on society that can probably only be removed by a pretty severe dose of economic downturn. But then again, I wouldn't put it past the conservative establishment to simply use that as an opportunity to up the ante against minorities and immigrants. Would be interesting to see how the average brit responds...
#15172931
B0ycey wrote:There aren't that many British users on here @Tainari88 so as far as I am aware there aren't any Tories on PoFo actually.

I'm British, and - of late - a Tory.

I used to be a Labour supporter, and a staunch believer in Tony Blair. Then I realised he had betrayed us over immigration and - more importantly - Europe.

Then Labour (and the Lib Dems) fully threw their weight against the Brexit refferendum, and I could no longer vote for them. Plus the fact that Jeremy Corbyn was an outright marxist, an Islamophile (despite their awful beliefs on women and homosexuals), and an anti-semite.

I like Boris Johnson.. he's a self-parody of a Tory :)
By B0ycey
#15172934
Gardener wrote:I'm British, and - of late - a Tory.

I used to be a Labour supporter, and a staunch believer in Tony Blair. Then I realised he had betrayed us over immigration and - more importantly - Europe.

Then Labour (and the Lib Dems) fully threw their weight against the Brexit refferendum, and I could no longer vote for them. Plus the fact that Jeremy Corbyn was an outright marxist, an Islamophile (despite their awful beliefs on women and homosexuals), and an anti-semite.

I like Boris Johnson.. he's a self-parody of a Tory :)


What are saying? You were always a red Tory and now you are a blue Tory?

I don't know how old you are but what was your voting record prior to 1997? Also what do you think of Thatcher?

Also you are wrong about Corbyn. His manifesto wasn't Marxist, he supported equality rather than any race specifically and I don't see why he should be responsible for his party members. He was indeed taking action but just because he won't condone Israel and supports Palestine, that doesn't mean he must also be defacto antisemitic. It just means you support a cause that is bigger than religion. I think you have been played by the media. Can you imagine what could have happened last election if they published facts rather than conjecture?
#15172936
B0ycey wrote:What are saying? You were always a red Tory and now you are a blue Tory?

I don't know how old you are but what was your voting record prior to 1997? Also what do you think of Thatcher?


I was NOT a Tory in any way shape of form, and at the time I disliked Margaret Thatcher intensely. But Labour went all Internationalist and anti-British. There where also the lies about the war in Iraq. And the ongoing rush to European supernationalism. I voted Tory in 2005, and thereafter. (I might have considered the Liberals, if it wasn't for their pro-European stance. )
#15172939
GandalfTheGrey wrote:My interpretation of that is that at this moment communities are fixated on cultural/identity issues - but without any, or little economic grievances. This may come later as the effects of Brexit start to hit home.


It's built up over a long time and is quite complicated. I don't have any answers.

I'm not sure if the effects of Brexit will be blamed on Brexit by enough people to make a difference.


As an outside observer, it seems completely nonsensical that communities that purportedly decry the loss of cohesion and sense of community in society - keep voting in the ultimate anti-community party (eg policies on former community pillars like unions, attacks on minorities, austerity etc). To me this is only something that is possible by a concerted indoctrination campaign by the dominant conservative mainstream media. I think its a curse on society that can probably only be removed by a pretty severe dose of economic downturn. But then again, I wouldn't put it past the conservative establishment to simply use that as an opportunity to up the ante against minorities and immigrants. Would be interesting to see how the average brit responds...


That's about it. It might seem nonsensical to you, but for me living in the middle of it, I can see exactly where it's coming from.
I don't believe a severe economic downturn will be blamed on the Tories or Brexit, anyway.
Boris has been getting away with it and will continue to get away with it.
#15172940
B0ycey wrote:Worcester is very much like York given it is a city without the skyscrapers with a rich history especially in regards to the English civil war. Do you know where the last battle took place?

As for Birmingham, it isn't in my county, it isn't the closest city to me and it has to be at least and hour and a half drive away. But given I once said we shared a train line with it we are now regarded as Brummies because both cities are in the Midlands. Not that I have an issue with that given Birmingham is a very friendly city actually and the Black Country is a very family oriented district. But yes, urban and rural areas are different but that can be said for every country around the world, not just the UK. And I would recommend Birmingham to anyone who is interested in the Industrial revolution, the Staffordshire hoard, canals, chocolate, multiculture, curry etc as the city has much to offer the world, has great shopping and has had some great investment spend on it. The are also running the next Commonwealth games. Also, Stratford is near Worcester, half an hour away, something I want to say given you quoted Shakespeare.


I don't know much of anything at all about the history of British cities, towns, and districts. I would say almost zero. I think Anglophiles in the USA know a lot more about England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland than I do.

If Stratford is the hometown of Shakespeare I would not have known it B0ycey?

If I had to choose what kinds of histories I know a lot about it would be Latin America, USA history, and African Continent history. I also learned a lot about China. Europe I studied more Russia and France and Spain and Italy. Germany some. The far north like Finland, Norway and Sweden and the UK I never really got an education on the deep history of that part of the world at all. Or Australia either. Just a very superficial thing. I need to cover those gaps in the future.

I am hoping you might help me do that someday eh?

Potemkin knows a lot but he loves listening to my stories and jokes and music and friendship and having fun and he won't be filling me in on things like that eh?

I told him long ago that I can't really render a verdict on a culture unless I live there and get to know it for a very very long time. That is unlikely to happen now since I live in the Southern part of Mexico. I still have to take my little almost 10-year-old son to Puerto Rico so he can meet some of his extended family members. My mother was one of four children, and her mother (my maternal granny) was one of 21 siblings and the amount of cousins he has is massive.

The history of a nation can be known just studying intensely and extensively the family tree and if it goes back a long time? It can be interesting.

Potemkin has very deep Scottish roots. I have never met a more intelligent man...and a good one.

I am Puerto Rican on all sides for centuries and centuries. But the culture is a typical Caribbean mixture of African slaves, Taino Indians and Southern Spaniards from the Canary Islands, Andalucia and the Port cities of Spain like Cadiz, Malaga and Sevilla, etc. There was hardly any Bourgeoisie at all in that island. Mostly very poor rural people. We later got Spanish republicans fleeing Spain and a lot of Venezuelans later on and so on.

B0ycey, I got very little Anglophile input in my life. Almost zero. And out of the four areas of the UK? I like the most rebellious and Indepedent Irish people of Southern Ireland the most. I truly love the Irish dearly. Their culture, language that is needing to be implemented more, and their history, their ways and art forms. I love Ireland in every possible way.

But, I need to know more about that region. Because I spent most of my adult like dealing with Latin America's complex cultures and Africa's colonial political history and beautiful musical and artistic traditions. My time is there. Not with the Anglos? So I know almost nothing about them. This board has more Anglos from England that I have ever met in my life before. That is the truth.

You are the first person I have ever met from that part of England B0ycey I kid you not.

Heisenberg is not the first Welshman I have met. I met a very famous one in PR. The one who co wrote the present Puerto Rican commonwealth constitution. Gordon K. Lewis. From Wales. Lol.

I need to learn more about all these people. I doubt I will ever understand the culture fully.

Unless one lives physically there and hang out all the time with the people from there? Most information about the culture is filtered.
By B0ycey
#15172944
Tainari88 wrote:But, I need to know more about that region. Because I spent most of my adult like dealing with Latin America's complex cultures and Africa's colonial political history and beautiful musical and artistic traditions. My time is there. Not with the Anglos? So I know almost nothing about them. This board has more Anglos from England that I have ever met in my life before. That is the truth.

You are the first person I have ever met from that part of England B0ycey I kid you not.


You know Decky and Skinster who I believe are Midlanders too. And I guess you know about the industrial Revolution which is mainly the history of this area especially in the Black Country. But if you want to know about Worcester (or more specifically Worcestershire), this county like those it surrounds is a mainly agricultural based economy like Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Shropshire and to some extent Warwickshire. Worcester is a city which without a cathedral would just be regarded as a large town. It is famous for its sauce, porcelain and the English Civil war. Malvern which is near is famous for Elgin and its hills. Startford that is close for Shakespeare along with its medieval market and Hereford my nearest city except for Worcester for its cider. It is very difficult to give you an incite into UK history given areas in the UK are famous for something. No area is the same. And really the large city dwellers are not an association for the UK on the whole.
#15172962
B0ycey wrote:You know Decky and Skinster who I believe are Midlanders too. And I guess you know about the industrial Revolution which is mainly the history of this area especially in the Black Country. But if you want to know about Worcester (or more specifically Worcestershire), this county like those it surrounds is a mainly agricultural based economy like Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Shropshire and to some extent Warwickshire. Worcester is a city which without a cathedral would just be regarded as a large town. It is famous for its sauce, porcelain and the English Civil war. Malvern which is near is famous for Elgin and its hills. Startford that is close for Shakespeare along with its medieval market and Hereford my nearest city except for Worcester for its cider. It is very difficult to give you an incite into UK history given areas in the UK are famous for something. No area is the same. And really the large city dwellers are not an association for the UK on the whole.


It just dawned on me? the Mexicans call Worcester sauce salsa inglesa or English Sauce which is popular here for putting on barbequed meats. They don't even attempt Worcestershire Sauce pronunciation. It is a total tongue twister for a Spanish speaker. Lol. So they just say salsa inglesa.

Everything you wrote is news to me. I had no idea about these little places. Decky I invited to visit me in Mexico and I told him he could stay here for free, I would cook for him and drive him around all for free because he is a working class man and without much funds. Just get the airline ticket I told him. He said that was too expensive too and he had no passport. Many people don't travel at all.

Skinster has not been back lately. She is busy with something and lives in London, England now. But she knows she can be here with me for free, all she needs to do is get a cheap ticket. But England is far far away from Mexico. Huge difference in distances.

But if ever a nation is worth visiting it is Mexico. I would love to visit South America and plan on doing that soon. I know the Caribbean region well because I am from there. No one really understands how charming the Caribbean islands are until you go. Then all becomes quite easy to understand why it is such a rich region in music, dance and the fusion of many cultures into one....the core of the New World. Fusion.
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By noemon
#15172966
Tainari88 wrote:It just dawned on me? the Mexicans call Worcester sauce salsa inglesa or English Sauce which is popular here for putting on barbequed meats. They don't even attempt Worcestershire Sauce pronunciation. It is a total tongue twister for a Spanish speaker. Lol. So they just say salsa inglesa.


Worcester = Wooster, like Rooster.

Worcestershire = Woostershir like Rooster-shir.

It took me a while as well. :lol:

It's great sauce.
#15172967
noemon wrote:Worcester = Wooster, like Rooster.

Worcestershire = Woostershir like Rooster-shir.

It took me a while as well.

Here's a fun one: ask an Australian to say "Loughborough" without giving any pronunciation tips. I've heard "Lowbra" and "Loogabooroo" before. :lol:
#15172973
noemon wrote:Worcester = Wooster, like Rooster.

Worcestershire = Woostershir like Rooster-shir.

It took me a while as well. :lol:

It's great sauce.


They don't even try Noemon, they just put "Salsa Inglesa" on the bottle. They see that spelling of Worcestershire and all those consonants? They say, "A la chingada with that. I won't do it. Salsa Inglesa. End of story there." Lol. But I laugh with the Yucatecans here with that sauce. They got some damn difficult names to pronounce in the Mayan language. Here are a few: (@noemon ) should cut and paste this website because it is extremely informative about everything to do with the Yucatan in the English language.

https://yucatanliving.com/daily-life/ma ... -beginners
#15173013
B0ycey wrote:... and Hereford my nearest city except for Worcester for its cider.

What about the SAS? They're out of Hereford aren't they?

Tainari88 wrote:the Mexicans call Worcester sauce salsa inglesa or English Sauce which is popular here for putting on barbequed meats.

Ha! Funny. The simplest marinade that gets raves for me is just dry rub beef with Montreal steak seasoning (both sides), and then spray it with a bit of Worcestershire sauce (both sides). I buy it by the gallon and put it into a spray bottle for an even application. Salsa Inglesa! Ha ha!

Heisenberg wrote:Here's a fun one: ask an Australian to say "Loughborough" without giving any pronunciation tips. I've heard "Lowbra" and "Loogabooroo" before. :lol:

That's not too difficult. Southwick is pretty non-intuitive. Keighley is too. Belvoir is downright funny. Cholmondeley. I write professionally in English. It's my native tongue and it makes little sense to me sometimes. My sister is a court reporter and we amuse ourselves by pronouncing every consonant--like pronouncing the k in knight or the g in night.
By B0ycey
#15173031
blackjack21 wrote:What about the SAS? They're out of Hereford aren't they?


I wouldn't say that is what Hereford is famous for though. However it is close to Wales and as such has many terrains so I suspect that is why there are based near Hereford.

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