This is why you don't want me to be your president - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15172014
late wrote:They don't want that, and personally, I think it's time we taught Vlad some manners.


I'm a little surprised to see you beating the war drum.

At this point in history, war isn't a good avenue. As I said, soft power, economics, disinformation, hacking. These are the new battlefronts. This is the easiest ways to evade international condemnation. Even proxy wars are no good these days.
#15172039
Rancid wrote:
I'm a little surprised to see you beating the war drum.

At this point in history, war isn't a good avenue. As I said, soft power, economics, disinformation, hacking. These are the new battlefronts. This is the easiest ways to evade international condemnation. Even proxy wars are no good these days.



Again, Putin is in no position to fight a real war.

Look, it's an aggressive position, I know that. But there is also considerable risk in not doing enough.

If I was actually president, I prob wouldn't push hard to escalate the situation. There is a Go proverb, "Sitting on the side is worth 8 stones". If you are teaching a beginner, you give them 9 stones. It's a lot easier when it's not your butt on the line.

It feels a lot different when you're in the hot seat. At the same time, dealing with bullies is simple. It gets complicated when you don't punch them in the nose.
#15172041
late wrote:The reason is that when the Soviet government collapsed, a lot of other countries were able to declare their freedom and independence from Russia.

Now you want their necks back under Putin's boot.

I don't know how clear it can be. The territories of modern Ukraine can never be independent of Russia. Russia can raise the bets here up to total nuclear annihilation and it will be fine because missing control over these is equal to total nuclear annihilation. If someone doesn't like it, bad for them, but if you aren't ready to bet on the mutually assured destruction, your best strategy would be to thread lightly.
#15172045
Ganeshas Rat wrote:
I don't know how clear it can be. The territories of modern Ukraine can never be independent of Russia.




"Ukraine gained its independence in 1991, following the dissolution of the Soviet Union."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

You're lying.

Putin is not going to destroy Russia. The reason nobody has used nukes since WW2 is MAD works.

You're bluffing.

Russia is a house of cards, one good shove and it collapses, prob taking Putin down with it...
#15172061
Ganeshas Rat wrote:No, it isn't.

People treat Ukrainian stateness like it's something their dying dad left them, like it's something true, like it did exist before, like it should exist no matter what, ready to die for the Holy and Unbreakable Directions of the Politburo (ironic in the case of the US but whatsoever). Reminds me a bit of fantasy where Earth is covered with Yggdrasils or somewhat of this kind, with each culture and each state forming around one of them. Wouldn't it be sweet to live in the world of such an objectivity?

However, it's more or less fine with European borders, a bunch of states that shouldn't exist at all doesn't matter much, hard to get perfection. The real problem is anywhere outside the Europe, the places where borders were drawn by (European) politicians on a map by a ruler. From an anti-British anti-colonial world hegemone I personally would expect to solve the problem of eternal points of instability in Africa, Asia and Middle East that are destined to be the source of genocides and terrorism just because of their borders. Like there's significantly bigger gain to effort ratio. But no, Holy Ukraine above all.


I totally agree that some borders, including ones drawn up by foreign countries, cause tension and conflict due to ethnic and religious clashes, nationalism etc. But any changes to a country's borders shouldn't be up to Russia, or the US, or Europe, or China, or any foreign power, it should be up to the people living in those countries themselves.

So guess what Russia and China and USA: bugger off. If Taiwan and parts of Ukraine want to join other countries they need to have a fair and free referendum free of foreign interference. This is what self-determination means.
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