[wat0n]

No it's not. Ultra-Orthodox Hasidic Jews protest the Israeli government all the time, because with some exceptions (like pro-zionist Chabad-Lubavitch) they religiously in fact do not believe at all in the existence of the Jewish state(since it was not founded by the Messiah under Messianic conditions and is therefore not Torah correct), protest Sabbath violations by secular Jews, protest the IDF draft and also support the Palestinians(in fact in a one state Palestine-only fashion as they literally believe in destroying the Zionist State). The two major Jewish organisations that hold that position are Satmar and Neturei Karta. The Pandemic crackdown gave them more reason to hate the Zionists.

But the Chabad-Lubavitch are the dominant ones, and yet they were among the resisters to the pandemic restrictions this time around. Again, it's not all that surprising and underscores how religious people in general are resisting them, and not only in Israel. You can see all sorts of religious fundamentalists doing the same elsewhere too.

The other more normally clothed anti-arab Jewish rioters are also not new, see the documentary "Forever Pure" which is about Israeli racism.

Actually it is to see them burning Arab-owned businesses and individuals down in broad daylight. Those guys would act covertly, not in the open.

@Beren it seems to sell enough to lead to a deadlocked Knesset and forcing elections until he's either decisively out or decisively in. The current operation and riots may lead to either, but the same would have been achieved once it became clear that the anti-Bibi coalition couldn't even form a government. I think Lapid had decent chances to fail.

[Beren]

@Beren it seems to sell enough to lead to a deadlocked Knesset and forcing elections until he's either decisively out or decisively in. The current operation and riots may lead to either, but the same would have been achieved once it became clear that the anti-Bibi coalition couldn't even form a government. I think Lapid had decent chances to fail.

However, Netanyahu could still legitimately believe that triggering a war with Hamas helps him anyway. Now he leads a war cabinet at least and people may think it's no time for change for sure, besides that it could also make it harder for Lapid to form a coalition.

And that's all from me.

[wat0n]

However, Netanyahu could still legitimately believe that triggering a war with Hamas helps him anyway. Now he leads a war cabinet at least and people may think it's no time for change for sure, besides that it could also make it harder for Lapid to form a coalition.

And that's all from me.

It's possible, but I don't think he had that possibility in mind this time.

Now, the fact that the IDF hasn't gone in by ground leads me to believe Israel doesn't want this to turn into something like 2009 or 2014, but more like one of the many short conflagrations they'd had with Hamas over the years. Who knows, maybe this will be over sometime next week, unless something big happens. It's part of the risks of war.

[Beren]

Would you tell me, @wat0n, if you could really discuss throughout pages whether Netanyahu was interested in triggering a war with Hamas or not?

[wat0n]

Would you tell me, @wat0n, if you could really discuss throughout pages whether Netanyahu was interested in triggering a war with Hamas or not?

Well I don't think so since he'd been taking a large risk. That's what I think at least. I mean, I understand your point but I think Lapid could have perfectly failed to form a coalition, forcing a new election, and Netanyahu's behavior is also pointing towards my argument right now. If he wanted a proper war he'd order crossing the border by land at the very least, and his rhetoric would be more aggressive as well. He'd be probably be listing the destruction of Hamas as a goal as the Israelis would hint to a decade or so ago, or at least mention the destruction of its ability to launch rockets or dig tunnels into Israel proper like he would not too long ago.

But right now, he's relatively quiet and only taking about deterrence. That signals a desire for a short operation.

And that's it, really. I don't have much more to say about this matter

[Beren]

That signals a desire for a short operation.

Exactly. Pseudo-debate is over.

[Igor Antunov]

As for the causes for this escalation,

Israel's "change bloc" collapses, leaving Netanyahu in charge
https://news.yahoo.com/israels-change-b ... 14825.html

uhuh. He was about to be ousted so he started a slaughter.

[colliric]

uhuh. He was about to be ousted so he started a slaughter.

I suspect he ordered the Ramadan crackdown on Mount Moriah by the Israeli Police.

[wat0n]

Israel's "change bloc" collapses, leaving Netanyahu in charge
https://news.yahoo.com/israels-change-b ... 14825.html

uhuh. He was about to be ousted so he started a slaughter.

Well, like it or not hostilities were started by Hamas and it would not be the first time they effectively help Netanyahu (and themselves too), although it is yet not clear if that'll be the case. Furthermore it is also far from clear that the anti-Netanyahu coalition would have actually been formed at all.

Then you have @colliric trying to connect government formation to the Israeli police presence at the Temple Mount, but clashes had already been going on while Netanyahu was attempting to form a coalition as Ramadan itself began at that time.

[Beren]

Oh, my god, what a brilliant and skillful politician Bibi is! Or maybe he's just favoured by God so much!

[colliric]

Then you have @colliric trying to connect government formation to the Israeli police presence at the Temple Mount, but clashes had already been going on while Netanyahu was attempting to form a coalition as Ramadan itself began at that time.

I was kinda half joking with that comment. I know it's been getting more tense for months.

Clashes with the anti-zionist Hasidic Jews have been increasing too.

[Beren]

Igor's Yahoo link is worth quoting.

Israel's "change bloc" collapses, leaving Netanyahu in charge

Barak Ravid

Thu, May 13, 2021, 9:14 PM · 3 min read

In a dramatic shift that comes amid fighting in the Gaza strip and clashes between Jewish and Arab citizens in Israel, right-wing kingmaker Naftali Bennett has announced he will no longer seek an alternative government to oust Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Why it matters: Bennett had been on the verge of a power-sharing deal with centrist opposition leader Yair Lapid that would have made him prime minister for two years until Lapid rotated into the job. Without Bennett, Lapid has no path to a majority, and Israel will almost certainly head for its fifth election since 2019 with Netanyahu still in his post.

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The big picture: After yet another indecisive election in March, Netanyahu had the first opportunity to form a government but failed to do so. The mandate then passed to Lapid last week, leaving Netanyahu in his most vulnerable position politically since he became prime minister in 2009.

• In addition to convincing Bennett to join forces with his center-left bloc, Lapid also needed the support of an Arab party to reach a majority. Thus he was also negotiating with Mansour Abbas, the leader of the Islamist Ra'am party.

Driving the news: Those negotiations were suspended after the fighting in Gaza started on Monday, with Abbas suspending his participation and Bennett also wavering.

• Just as the crisis made it politically difficult for Abbas to consider joining the next Israeli government, it also increased the pressure on the conservative Bennett to reject any pact with Ra'am, which is a sister movement to Hamas.

Bennett announced on Thursday that an alternative government was no longer on the table, and said he would instead negotiate with Netanyahu over a potential right-wing government.

• He cited the "emergency situation" in Israeli cities that have both Israeli and Arab citizens, which he said "demands the use of force and sending the military into the cities” — something that would be impossible in a government backed by Ra'am.

• Lapid gave a speech shortly thereafter and said Bennett was making a mistake. He stressed that he would continue to try to form a government for the 20 days remaining in his mandate. “If we can’t, we will go for an unneeded election and we will win," Lapid said.

Between the lines: The collapse of the alternative government shows the deep effect the inter-communal violence in Israel has had on the country’s politics, far beyond the fighting in Gaza.

What’s next: The expiration of Lapid's mandate will be followed by a 21-day period in which any member of the Knesset can form a government if they can get the support of 61 members of the 120-member body.

• During this period, Netanyahu is expected to try and pass a law to change the electoral system to allow prime ministers to be directly elected.

• Bennett could potentially strike a deal with Netanyahu to merge his Yamina party with Netanyahu's Likud to get prime spots on the Likud electoral list.

Worth noting: Netanyahu will likely wage the next election campaign while standing trial for corruption.

So Netanyahu hopes for getting elected prime minister directly, but what if he still won't be able to form a coalition and government? He's just deepening the crisis then. Maybe some other warlet with Hamas will help him out and keep him govern Israel the right direction again.

[wat0n]

Oh, my god, what a brilliant and skillful politician Bibi is! Or maybe he's just favoured by God so much!

In all fairness, you have to admit he was fairly cunning in dealing with Obama and fooling the opposition circa 2015. Way too cunning for Israel's own good, in fact, but cunning nonetheless. I'll give that asshole that, at least.

As for your second post, I think a big question is what will happen with the intercomunal violence going on now, particularly as the fighting with Hamas ends (possibly next week). Will the far right keep rioting and fighting Arabs? If so, will Netanyahu be forced to deploy the IDF to restore order? Or they'll stand down, and either leave the Arabs rioting or perhaps they'll stop too?

If the far right just kept at it, I can actually imagine him losing in a more decisive manner if he has to properly repress them to restore order and that's one risk Netanyahu is clearly facing. I wonder if Bennett will stall talks with Netanyahu just to wait and see what happens in that front.

@colliric fair, and I would include the Zionist Haredim too. Particularly during the lockdowns.

And now the hardline nationalists are clashing with police as well, and the Israeli Arabs too. That's by far the most significant new development in all this affair.

[Beren]

The big question is if how much Netanyahu's political agony or maybe survival will cost Israel and others. It's going to be fatal if he survives.

[late]

The big question is if how much Netanyahu's political agony or maybe survival will cost Israel and others. It's going to be fatal if he survives.

That's an interesting point.

I don't have an answer, it's just something I wonder about. The country is headed down a bad road, and it would be great if they managed to change the way they do things.

[wat0n]

The big question is if how much Netanyahu's political agony or maybe survival will cost Israel and others. It's going to be fatal if he survives.

And also what or who comes after he's gone. But I agree, he needs to go.

[Igor Antunov]

IDF just knocked down the foreign media building in Gaza. It housed all major foreign media and external media links in the territory.


Meanwhile the US has blocked another attempted UN meeting on the conflict.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us ... el/2240660

[Political Interest]

These actions by Israel must stop. Civilian casualties are unacceptable. They must consider that there are many innocent non-combatants in Gaza who can't go anywhere or escape the bombardment. These obviously include children, 31 of whom have been killed. That is simply beyond the pale of civilised behaviour and is completely inexcusable. Even if there are combatants hiding among the civilian population that does not give carte blanche to punish innocent people in such a fashion.

The West must restrain Israeli excesses. Time and time again the West ignores what the Israeli government does.

[Beren]

I've just heard that Hamas should hold democratic elections, but they don't really mean to, so they might be somewhat happy with the situation as well if it's true.

Well, it doesn't seem to be true.

JERUSALEM (AP) — President Mahmoud Abbas announced early Friday that the first Palestinian elections in 15 years will be delayed, citing a dispute with Israel to call off a vote in which his fractured Fatah party was expected to suffer another embarrassing defeat to the Hamas militant group.

Hamas slammed the move as a “coup.” But the indefinite postponement will be quietly welcomed by Israel and Western countries, which view the Islamic militant group as a terrorist organization and are concerned about its growing strength.

[JohnRawls]

IDF just knocked down the foreign media building in Gaza. It housed all major foreign media and external media links in the territory.


Meanwhile the US has blocked another attempted UN meeting on the conflict.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us ... el/2240660

Majority of the building was used by HAMAS for its intelligence infrastructure. Israel gave a warning in advance about this bombing.

This is the same story as the main HAMAS command centre is located under the main Hospital of Gaza. Why is HAMAS putting its infrastructure in civilian buildings?